WAG Inequality in the gym (a corollary to my previous post about changing gyms)

[GymBeeMom]

It does sound like her scores are strong with the hours she is getting. 12 hours for level 4 is pretty reasonable and should be ample time for her to continue to develop her current skills to reach her scoring potential. I believe the coaches put the girls where they need to be, but not always where they want to be. If we, as parents, remain calm and support the coaching decisions, I find the kids often can roll with it. At 9, she has a long road and plenty of time to add hours. Her coaches want and need each gymnast to succeed, so my guess would be they would put your dd in a position to do just that.
I am sorry your DDs coach didn't feel the need to explain the process to you. It always helps when we understand what criteria the coaches use to make their decisions, but ultimately it's not our business what the other kids are doing. And when she gets moved up to the next level, they will all be back to the same place again. Enjoy one less trip to the gym each week for now

 

[txgal]

If there is a legitimate reason for the extra training, it wouldn't be an issue. It just seems that giving a group of girls extra hours simply because the practice schedule is inconvenient for a parent is ridiculous. I would understand them swapping one day for another to accommodate a schedule, but to train them at a completely different level because of that just doesn't seem appropriate.

Their gym doesn't do the TOPS program, though the head coach has said DD9 and a few others would be excellent candidates for it, she just doesn't have the time or coaching staff to do it. I get that. Disappointing, but I get it. So does DD9. What she can't understand is why she, undoubtedly 'the best' from her group of 4s, isn't getting the extra training...she feels like these girls will always have an advantage over her and she will constantly be playing catch up to them...

She knows life isn't fair, but there is a difference between right and wrong. Absent a satisfactory explanation, it's very difficult for her to see this situation as anything but wrong.

 

[happychaos]

I am sorry I guess I wasn't clear..... I never said my DD isn't in the extra hours training group. My goodness, I was trying to say that I thought the situation was not good for anyone, including the girls offered the training. Sorry if it didn't come across that way. This is just as uncomfortable for the girls offered the training. They are supposed to be hush-hush about it, and not mention it to their friends. It's hard for the parents to have to dance around the subject. And of course, the families offered the training feel like they HAVE to say yes.

Some of the girls chosen for training now think they are gods gift to gymnastics, while equally talented, (AND hardworking) girls feel awful. It just seems like the negatives far outweigh any potential benefits.

I suppose if they wanted to take a handful of the very best girls to work at a higher level it may be different, but the way this was done just stinks for all involved.

 

[bookworm]

If there is a legitimate reason for the extra training, it wouldn't be an issue. It just seems that giving a group of girls extra hours simply because the practice schedule is inconvenient for a parent is ridiculous. I would understand them swapping one day for another to accommodate a schedule, but to train them at a completely different level because of that just doesn't seem appropriate.

Their gym doesn't do the TOPS program, though the head coach has said DD9 and a few others would be excellent candidates for it, she just doesn't have the time or coaching staff to do it. I get that. Disappointing, but I get it. So does DD9. What she can't understand is why she, undoubtedly 'the best' from her group of 4s, isn't getting the extra training...she feels like these girls will always have an advantage over her and she will constantly be playing catch up to them...

She knows life isn't fair, but there is a difference between right and wrong. Absent a satisfactory explanation, it's very difficult for her to see this situation as anything but wrong.

I am trying to understand why this is your issue....if the gym is trying to accommodate a parent by giving the gymnast a different schedule, that's their business and prerogative to schedule as they choose to retain their clients. Although YOU may not see a "legitimate" reason for the extra training, it doesn't mean there isn't one...and it seems like this is how your gym operates so you can either be ok with it and move on from the issue, or go to a different gym where this isn't done...

 

[txgymfan]

Since you said you are moving to Houston anyway just let it go. Enjoy the move and find a great new gym and then deal with their issues when they come up.

 

[gracyomalley]

I think this is normal....at least here. In both of my kids gyms if a kid has trouble making certain scheduled practices, but is a hard worker with consistent parents, coaches make accommodations. Presently that means for us that DS 13 works out with the other older boys, on their days, even though they are more advanced gymnasts - and guess what, he is getting more skills/strength this way even though its actually a shorter practice that day (he does 2 days with the other level 5s, one with the 7-9s). There was one year when DD did the "regular" level 5 schedule and several of her private schooled friends "got to do " the level 6 days - and when DD decided she wanted to move up with them she put it into high gear, did a month of privates to learn the new skills, and moved up with them....had she not wanted it badly enough, she would have ended up "behind" them....she's also been allowed to train the level 8 hours this year because she was given the choice of moving up or not and chose to stay level 7 (good choice emotionally...)

Gymnastics is an individual sport, and in the end, how each gym works will vary, but kids who work harder, show more drive, more potential, whatever a coach is looking for may be offered/given more opportunity.....kind of like life, eh???

 

[Flipflopz]

When my dd was a L4, she was the youngest and struggling. The coach took the "best" girls and gave them more hours, while the not "best" girls got fewer. It made no sense to me. But I didn't have to say anything cause a parent who was really mad said it for all of us.

 

[gymmommy123]

I've seen this at my dd's gym too. They had a group of girls that were trained at a higher level and more hours a week than the larger majority of the girls. They even put them in fancier leotards, and it just stood out, that the gym was saying "these are the girls that will win" among the rest of the girls. And yes, they were amazing at the meets, and were always at the top of the podium. They were even given more meets to participate in than the rest of the girls. I will say, when my daughter beat them all on bars, at the state meet, I couldn't help but have a big smile for her, knowing that was a victory she achieved with the hard work she put in when she was there, even if she hadn't been given as many hours or a fancy leotard. I have no idea what the next season will hold, will she get more hours? Will they see more potential in her? Only time will tell... We used it to our advantage though, to boost her confidence and tell her she COULD do just as well, if she applies herself.

 

[JBS]

Has anyone out there experienced inequality in their gym?

Yes...but who's trying to be fair? After all...it's not called gym"nice"tics.

Here is more...

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/t...erformance-team-track-a-team-vs-b-team.35374/

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/lament-of-the-b-streamer.35388/

 

[cbifoja]

I always try to remember that fair is every child getting their needs met, not being treated equally.

My child is one who is part of the "extra" practices. There is some resentment from others parents but hey, we didn't ASK for inclusion, we WERE asked. My child doesn't decide who is and who isn't on the extra hours squad but some parents have been really snotty about it, complaining about how it's always about X, Y, and Z gymnasts.

But X, Y, and Z gymnasts are the ones who NEVER miss practice, don't cheat on conditioning, haven't developed fear issues (YET!), will try new skills, and are quick to catch on. They also tend to be a little bit younger and have shown the desire to see how far they can go in the sport. The others enjoy the sport and work hard, but they aren't driven/ambitious. And that's okay!

Should some girls be held back because Mary still has to balk her BHS on beam 20 times before she'll throw it? Should Mary have to train under the pressure that all the other girls are impatiently watching and waiting for her to throw the dang thing? It's a win-win for everyone to separate the groups.

But as for the parents and the snotty way they talk about the gymnasts...it's disgusting. How passive aggressive! Rather than talking trash about 9, 10, and 11 YOs, why not sack up and approach the ADULT who made the decision that they felt was in everyone's best interest?

All gymnasts are not created equal, but they all do have an equal right to good coaching. I'm not going to deprive another gymnast of a fabulously intricate floor routine just because my child dances like an ox. Is it fair that my child doesn't get the amazing floor routine??? Maybe not, but she has a very cute one. It isn't as flashy as her teammates but such is life!

 

[Flipflopz]

It is interesting, my dd is now lev 10, and the other girls I mentioned above are no longer competitors of hers. It was a very large group and now no one remains as a direct competitor. As for how she was as a 4, she wasn 't a cheater, or a balker. Or lazy. And she never missed practice. She was simply the youngest and smallest. We ended up leaving the first gym she was at and got to a place where she was given an equal shot at training. I believe that is why she is a 10 today.

 

[gymnastgrrrl]

I'm a level 8 and at my gym we experience something much similar! There was two groups optional 1s and optional 2s because my gym had many optionals. So we had a coach who picked and she picked the youngest girls who she thought had great potential not giving a lot of us a real chance. Optional 2s home schooled and did 6 hour practices when optional 1s only did 4 hour. Also there was levels 7-9 in optional 2 so some other, higher level girls were practicing less.Obviously the optional 2s were going to be amazing. Slowly the optional 2s were getting burned out and there was only like 5 of them left. Then some of those 5 missed school and wanted to go back. The coach who was playing favorites got mad and quit 5 days before our first meet.

 

[txgal]

I always try to remember that fair is every child getting their needs met, not being treated equally.

My child is one who is part of the "extra" practices. There is some resentment from others parents but hey, we didn't ASK for inclusion, we WERE asked. My child doesn't decide who is and who isn't on the extra hours squad but some parents have been really snotty about it, complaining about how it's always about X, Y, and Z gymnasts.

But X, Y, and Z gymnasts are the ones who NEVER miss practice, don't cheat on conditioning, haven't developed fear issues (YET!), will try new skills, and are quick to catch on. They also tend to be a little bit younger and have shown the desire to see how far they can go in the sport. The others enjoy the sport and work hard, but they aren't driven/ambitious. And that's okay!

Should some girls be held back because Mary still has to balk her BHS on beam 20 times before she'll throw it? Should Mary have to train under the pressure that all the other girls are impatiently watching and waiting for her to throw the dang thing? It's a win-win for everyone to separate the groups.

But as for the parents and the snotty way they talk about the gymnasts...it's disgusting. How passive aggressive! Rather than talking trash about 9, 10, and 11 YOs, why not sack up and approach the ADULT who made the decision that they felt was in everyone's best interest?

All gymnasts are not created equal, but they all do have an equal right to good coaching. I'm not going to deprive another gymnast of a fabulously intricate floor routine just because my child dances like an ox. Is it fair that my child doesn't get the amazing floor routine??? Maybe not, but she has a very cute one. It isn't as flashy as her teammates but such is life!

This is exactly what I'm talking about. There are a few girls in the 'separate' group who get extra hours simply because their parents told the coach the regular practice days were 'inconvenient.' What makes it difficult for DD is that she's better than all but one of those girls and she feels cheated because she knows with the extra hours she could probably win her age group at state.

I can understand separating girls based on ability, but that's not the case here. Two of the three girls will be repeating L4 but will continue training the L5 hours; DD is moving to L5 and will train the L5 hours, so it's all water under the bridge now. But she does still feel cheated and when a 9 year old feels cheated it's awfully hard to convince them they're being irrational.

 

[gymnastgrrrl]

I always try to remember that fair is every child getting their needs met, not being treated equally.

My child is one who is part of the "extra" practices. There is some resentment from others parents but hey, we didn't ASK for inclusion, we WERE asked. My child doesn't decide who is and who isn't on the extra hours squad but some parents have been really snotty about it, complaining about how it's always about X, Y, and Z gymnasts.

But X, Y, and Z gymnasts are the ones who NEVER miss practice, don't cheat on conditioning, haven't developed fear issues (YET!), will try new skills, and are quick to catch on. They also tend to be a little bit younger and have shown the desire to see how far they can go in the sport. The others enjoy the sport and work hard, but they aren't driven/ambitious. And that's okay!

Should some girls be held back because Mary still has to balk her BHS on beam 20 times before she'll throw it? Should Mary have to train under the pressure that all the other girls are impatiently watching and waiting for her to throw the dang thing? It's a win-win for everyone to separate the groups.

But as for the parents and the snotty way they talk about the gymnasts...it's disgusting. How passive aggressive! Rather than talking trash about 9, 10, and 11 YOs, why not sack up and approach the ADULT who made the decision that they felt was in everyone's best interest?

All gymnasts are not created equal, but they all do have an equal right to good coaching. I'm not going to deprive another gymnast of a fabulously intricate floor routine just because my child dances like an ox. Is it fair that my child doesn't get the amazing floor routine??? Maybe not, but she has a very cute one. It isn't as flashy as her teammates but such is life!

Coming from a gymnast who was excluded from the special practices... It's makes you feel very bad and almost like you suck... I really have lost a lot of confidence

 

[Krystan]

I really think this is something you have to get used to. It is not easy or fair, but what they are doing, most likely, is treating each gymnast as an individual and giving each one what the coaches believes she needs. We've seen it here many times, and it certainly has left me feeling annoyed, but at this point I've learned that the coach is usually right about things like that. We've had kids training "up a level" or competing "down a level", given extra days, extra hours, etc, but it was always their attempt to give the kids (not the parents) what they need at the time. Right now in dd's L5 group there are two girls that spend a day each week with the optional team uptraining, and even in the L5 practice they are given different tasks. Honestly, they don't score any better at meets because if anything they spend less time on L5 routines than on getting giants and cast-to-handstands. However, they are both very determined and talented, and are on the old side for L5 - I know and understand why the coach is wanting to move them up faster and keep them challenged. But even if I didn't - and this is important: It's NOT. my. business.

Those girls getting the extra day at your gym: maybe it's because of their schedules and maybe it's not; but it's really NOT your business. It is between them and the coach. 12 hours is more than enough to succeed in L4. I can't imagine that more hours than that is affecting their scores much at all - they are probably spending the time uptraining anyway. And at L4, there is a huge difference between being 9yo and being 11yo, as far as how much time they have to get to optionals. All your dd can do is to do her best and show how committed, hardworking, and determined she is, and they'll catch on.

Really, I completely understand how frustrating this can be (been there), and am hoping to come across as understanding instead of mean - by all means ask the coach if you're concerned. But you'll make yourself crazy worrying about every little decision and how fair or not fair it is to your dds. Let it go and just trust that the coaches know what they're doing and also that they know what is best for your daughters as well as their teammates.

 

[gymnastgrrrl]

I really think this is something you have to get used to. It is not easy or fair, but what they are doing, most likely, is treating each gymnast as an individual and giving each one what the coaches believes she needs. We've seen it here many times, and it certainly has left me feeling annoyed, but at this point I've learned that the coach is usually right about things like that. We've had kids training "up a level" or competing "down a level", given extra days, extra hours, etc, but it was always their attempt to give the kids (not the parents) what they need at the time. Right now in dd's L5 group there are two girls that spend a day each week with the optional team uptraining, and even in the L5 practice they are given different tasks. Honestly, they don't score any better at meets because if anything they spend less time on L5 routines than on getting giants and cast-to-handstands. However, they are both very determined and talented, and are on the old side for L5 - I know and understand why the coach is wanting to move them up faster and keep them challenged. But even if I didn't - and this is important: It's NOT. my. business.

Those girls getting the extra day at your gym: maybe it's because of their schedules and maybe it's not; but it's really NOT your business. It is between them and the coach. 12 hours is more than enough to succeed in L4. I can't imagine that more hours than that is affecting their scores much at all - they are probably spending the time uptraining anyway. And at L4, there is a huge difference between being 9yo and being 11yo, as far as how much time they have to get to optionals. All your dd can do is to do her best and show how committed, hardworking, and determined she is, and they'll catch on.

Really, I completely understand how frustrating this can be (been there), and am hoping to come across as understanding instead of mean - by all means ask the coach if you're concerned. But you'll make yourself crazy worrying about every little decision and how fair or not fair it is to your dds. Let it go and just trust that the coaches know what they're doing and also that they know what is best for your daughters as well as their teammates.

I am the gymnast

 

[Krystan]

I am the gymnast

Sorry, but I was replying to the OP, who is a parent. It seems from another post that her dd has been moved up to L5 since the original post, so maybe it's a moot point now, but I still stand by what I said.

 

[txgal]

It is somewhat of a moot point. The lingering issue for DD is that the one girl she couldn't beat is the TX state bars champ for her age group. DD knows she could have been there as well had she had the extra 6 hours during the week and the extra 8 hours a week during the summer. She is frustrated because to her, as a 9 year old, the coach is playing favorites--DD works hard and her coach has said that she is without a doubt the best in the gym, but her perfectionist issues and her tendency to get really frustrated with herself and her teammates often gets in the way. She has also admitted that this is mostly due to the fact that she is 9 and lacks the maturity of the older girls, but I think the coach telling her that and then behaving in a contradictory manner is part of the problem.

 

[txgal]

P.S. DD being referred to in this post is the top kiddo in this photo.

 

[Jen H.]

P.S. DD being referred to in this post is the top kiddo in this photo.

I ADORE this photo!!!