MAG JD scoring

[sce]

So much new stuff this year. I was following the scores of a JD competition, as we know a few of the competitors. My kid is not JD. I thought I understood the scoring but then some scores were higher than I thought possible. Can someone explain scoring for JD?

Also are the deductions for form, falls etc the same as in JO?

 

[Juniper311]

Since JD kids can make up their own routines, I would assume start values differ, as in JO, but deductions should be the same.

Division 2 Compulsory levels are where the scores are capped at 10.0. JD's complete name is Junior Development Optional.

That said, I'm not completely sure myself. I haven't questioned any coaches or judges about JD lately...

 

[profmom]

Our program director could provide you with an earful.

As I understand it, it's supposed to be 10.0 base plus the value of five best skills plus the dismount (must be A or accepted exception) for the 12-14 year old crew, and the same but with seven plus dismount for the 15+ guys. There are no group values or special requirements. Vault is supposed to use the same table as JO. Deductions are supposed to be the same except with no deduction for an empty swing.

To say that the implementation of the judging piece has been confusing and rocky would be rather an understatement. At our guys' first meet, they encountered one judge who was deducting for every empty swing and another who was adding in groups, which resulted in higher scores than the guys' actual start values in some cases.

 

[skschlag]

So, from my understanding...other than vault.

Base of 10. Skills are awarded as in jo, a is .1, b is .2, etc. I believe they amended it to 5 skills plus dismount for all ages.

With only 6 skills, Skills over 11 are difficult. You would need almost all bs for a start value of 11.8. You can get .1 stick bonus as well.

 

[sce]

Okay, I looked it up. 12-14 yo, 5 skills, plus dismount, .1 stick bonus, .1 execution bonus. Top score should be 10.8. So how did 2 kids in the younger age group get 11.1 and 11.3 on high bar?

15-18 yo, top score should be 11?

Also, for level 8, I thought the oldest you could be was turning 14 this competition year? The meet listed the older age group as 13-15.

 

[sce]

Okay, I looked it up. 12-14 yo, 5 skills, plus dismount, .1 stick bonus, .1 execution bonus. Top score should be 10.8. So how did 2 kids in the younger age group get 11.1 and 11.3 on high bar?

15-18 yo, top score should be 11?

Also, for level 8, I thought the oldest you could be was turning 14 this competition year? The meet listed the older age group as 13-15.

I did not realize that they changed the older group to 6 skills also.

 

[skschlag]

I think they had to our else the having the 2 age groups as one would not work. The 2 with those scores were older...

 

[profmom]

With the high scores, either the kids were throwing tkachevs and kovacs and doing double double dismounts or the judge screwed up. My guess is that the judge screwed up. Just like at our first meet where a JD guy got over an 11 on a rings routine with all As and a single C.

 

[sce]

With the high scores, either the kids were throwing tkachevs and kovacs and doing double double dismounts or the judge screwed up. My guess is that the judge screwed up. Just like at our first meet where a JD guy got over an 11 on a rings routine with all As and a single C.

It was a mixed session level 8 and JD. I have a feeling they were cored like level 8s.

 

[karenity]

I think it will take awhile to get it all figured out. Our first and second meet the scores were a lot lower in the second meet for JO. It will take some getting used to. Harder to compare scores meet to meet, but did notice scores were lower across the board for optionals. At Stanford a 12.8 got first place on high bar for level 10.

 

[profmom]

I can deal with the ordinary "these judges always take minimum deductions, and these judges have super pointy pencils." I'm ok with "this judge has a real issue with block on vault and that one hates messy twisting." But the outright mistakes do get under my skin. One of our coaches was telling me last night that a judge they encountered over the weekend misapplied bonuses at L4 -- just clearly did not give credit that the rules stated was warranted.

With the JD issues, it really can screw things up if a judge on one event is judging them with optional start values and everyone else is doing it properly. Very few gymnasts are equally skilled on every event, so having one event with top scores a couple points higher will throw things out of whack both for the guys who excel at that event and the ones who stink at it.

As a related matter, I wonder if they will ultimately have to develop a separate vault table for JD. I guess it will depend on how popular and competitive this stream of competition becomes.

 

[sce]

I agree. Judges should prepare themselves ahead of time to know the requirements of the level that they are judging.

 

[Coach Z]

It would be nice to have another men's program update specifically for JD. Is the start value 10.6 for a routine of all A skills? And 11.2 for all B skills? I asked a judge over the weekend and left with the impression that the start value for a 6 A skill routine was 10.0. But that additional difficulty would be added in, so that a routine of all B skills would be 10.6.

 

[skschlag]

From what I understand from our coach is that A's count .1 over the 10, b's are .2, etc. My son actually has some c's in a couple of routines so his start value is higher. (I think on floor for JD his sv was 11.3 or so). But it is definitely confusing. Saw boys scoring 11.3 on HB this past weekend.....that would be all c's!

 

[2G1B]

I can deal with the ordinary "these judges always take minimum deductions, and these judges have super pointy pencils." I'm ok with "this judge has a real issue with block on vault and that one hates messy twisting." But the outright mistakes do get under my skin. One of our coaches was telling me last night that a judge they encountered over the weekend misapplied bonuses at L4 -- just clearly did not give credit that the rules stated was warranted.

With the JD issues, it really can screw things up if a judge on one event is judging them with optional start values and everyone else is doing it properly. Very few gymnasts are equally skilled on every event, so having one event with top scores a couple points higher will throw things out of whack both for the guys who excel at that event and the ones who stink at it.

As a related matter, I wonder if they will ultimately have to develop a separate vault table for JD. I guess it will depend on how popular and competitive this stream of competition becomes.

I don't know much about JD, our gym isn't doing it so far; but I'm curious about your thoughts on the vault table. Why would a different one be needed? I know from the girls' side in Xcel silver on up and L4 on up they use the normal vault table. What are the JD boys doing that would need a different table?

 

[Juniper311]

I'm curious about that vault table comment too. I just forgot to ask, so thanks 2G1B.

 

[skschlag]

My only thought would be that a really good vaulter has a big advantage over the field. If most scores are close, and say in the 9.0-10.5 range, and someone gets a 12.7 on vault, it will give them a good lead

 

[Juniper311]

Oh, then you're reading it as vault "scoring" table, not physical vault table?

 

[skschlag]

Oh yes! I totally think that is it.

 

[2G1B]

ah, OK. I was scratching my head thinking, "what would they do? go back to vaulting over the pommel horse?"