WAG JO Code changes 2018-2022

[tpMom]

Since we're talking about the vault again - I have a question. My daughter is 100% convinced that in Level 6 the vault is a timer from a mat and you don't move it to the vault table until Level 7. What I'm reading here sounds like she's wrong, which makes my inner crazy gym mom feel worried that maybe the coach has something wrong. Is DD correct or do both levels vault on the vault table. And, if both levels vault off the table, is there any difference between the level 6 and 7 vaults?

 

[MILgymFAM]

Since we're talking about the vault again - I have a question. My daughter is 100% convinced that in Level 6 the vault is a timer from a mat and you don't move it to the vault table until Level 7. What I'm reading here sounds like she's wrong, which makes my inner crazy gym mom feel worried that maybe the coach has something wrong. Is DD correct or do both levels vault on the vault table. And, if both levels vault off the table, is there any difference between the level 6 and 7 vaults?

Both levels use the table, and as far as I know they do the exact same vaults.

 

[raenndrops]

Both levels use the table, and as far as I know they do the exact same vaults.

Yes, they have the exact same 3 vault options...
FHS over the table to the mat stack (prep for Front-Front vaults)
1/4-1/2 On over the table to mat stack (prep for Tsuk vaults)
RO onto the springboard ... BHS onto the table to the feet on the mat stack (prep for Yurchenko vaults)

 

[kitkat]

Are all three of those vaults have a 10 start value?

Yes, they have the exact same 3 vault options...
FHS over the table to the mat stack (prep for Front-Front vaults)
1/4-1/2 On over the table to mat stack (prep for Tsuk vaults)
RO onto the springboard ... BHS onto the table to the feet on the mat stack (prep for Yurchenko vaults)

 

[amiandjim]

Are all three of those vaults have a 10 start value?

Yes

 

[sfts]

Ha, yes! I predict massive amounts of angle of repulsion deductions, especially on the tsuk timer (aka round off vault) which will likely be the easiest for weak vaulters to survive to two feet.

It really sucks that some skills get looked down upon so easily, and often the kids who do them. My DD did a round off in L6, so the tsuk timer makes perfect sense for L7, while she’s drilling tsuks for L8. If the people writing the code decided they’re equal.. then why can’t they be?

I said that the tsuk timer will be the easiest for weak vaulters to survive, not that everyone doing the tsuk timer was a weak vaulter. To assume the latter from the former is a logical mistake. I also said nothing about a well-done tsuk timer deserving (or getting) a score any lower one of the other timers done equally well.

The tsuk timer will be the "easiest" of the timer vaults to complete to the feet for the vast majority of gymnasts; it can be cheated around the side for those who lack power, the vaulter can see the table the entire time they are vaulting, and it can piked down easily to the point that many gymnasts could probably stand on the landing mat with one hand still on the table. The FHS has a blind landing and will be harder to save if the gymnast doesn't get enough height. The Yurchenko timer requires a more complex entry that is blind to the table, though once there it is easy to cheat off the table.

I also said it will be the easiest to survive; survival is not the same as doing well and doesn't lead to good scores in gymnastics. There will be a large, clear, deserved score between those who do a tsuk timer poorly just to get a vault (piking down with their hands still on the table, getting the max -1.0 angle of repulsion, plus time on table/height/distance plus form deductions) and those who do a proper timer with nice block. If the weakest vaulters gravitate towards the vault, you will see the lowest scores on it, but that does preclude the vault having the broadest range of scores since there will still be strong vaulters who choose it for developmental reasons - like your DD is doing.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Both levels use the table, and as far as I know they do the exact same vaults.

Yep.

 

[chalkbowl]

Here is the current USAG Appendix page for level 6-8 vault: Link Removed

 

[munchkin3]

Just an observation- the FHS........funny how it looks as though they want the gymnast to hit the table at a slight arch.
AMAZING after 100 years of teaching the girls to hit the table completly straight. How is this even logical?
Im a mom, so please someone with techincal knowledge, please tell me why?

 

[amiandjim]

Just an observation- the FHS........funny how it looks as though they want the gymnast to hit the table at a slight arch.
AMAZING after 100 years of teaching the girls to hit the table completly straight. How is this even logical?
Im a mom, so please someone with techincal knowledge, please tell me why?

I believe that’s because it’s a timer for a front handspring front vault, and if you watch a video of that vault, they do come in to the table slightly arched.

 

[curlygirls]

Here is the current USAG Appendix page for level 6-8 vault: Link Removed

I noticed in the appendix that the tsuk and yurchenko tuck vaults now seem to have a 10.0 start value for level 8. I hadn’t heard about that change before now, but I think that it makes so much sense to allow the tuck at full start value the first year they flip their vaults.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

What makes no sense to me is that the normal front handspring vault is still allowed in L8 with a 9.0 SV but not at 6 or 7?
DD is prepping for 7 and is doing ok with yurchenko drills and can flip tsuks into pit but I can’t imagine that she would have been prepared to do these vaults in 6. I understand the need for the transition in 7 but for 6 it seems a bit much.

I predict that there will be a lot less 9’s on vault at L 6-7 meets and that the common 9.5 plus scores on vault we have seen at meets (not my dd lol) will not be happening much at all. Could have an impact on all around scores in those levels.

 

[munchkin3]

I believe that’s because it’s a timer for a front handspring front vault, and if you watch a video of that vault, they do come in to the table slightly arched.

Correct, but as my DD coaches always stated, a FHS is a dead end vault. To teach it in L4/5 with a straight body is silly. It must progress to a Front-Front, or switch entry.....
Not trying to mix the pot- jus' sayin'

 

[sce]

Just an observation- the FHS........funny how it looks as though they want the gymnast to hit the table at a slight arch.
AMAZING after 100 years of teaching the girls to hit the table completly straight. How is this even logical?
Im a mom, so please someone with techincal knowledge, please tell me why?

The problem all along is that how they were teaching the FHS vault, it was not progressive. The timer is better as it could lead to a flipping vault.

 

[sewgood]

Correct, but as my DD coaches always stated, a FHS is a dead end vault. To teach it in L4/5 with a straight body is silly. It must progress to a Front-Front, or switch entry.....
Not trying to mix the pot- jus' sayin'

I agree with this. And I know I said it earlier, but I do not understand why tsuk and yuri timers have to be done to the feet instead of the back.

ETA: I just think teaching actual progressions that will lead to the correct shapes in the upper levels makes more sense.

 

[fuzi]

And I know I said it earlier, but I do not understand why tsuk and yuri timers have to be done to the feet instead of the back.

Take it or leave it., but this is the explanation I was given by USAG staff:

Flipping to the back is great for learning to generate rotation, but then you get to meets with these brand new super hard mats, and they don't want kids slamming their heads onto hard mats and getting concussions.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

My probably repeating 8 almost 12 year old came home from practice and said the coach told them they need a Salto (back tuck) for beam. She has a bhs/bhs and ro/bt dismount. She can't go back to 7 as she had a really good year at 8. Is this true? She is working hard thru her growth spurt and this is a huge blow if it is true

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

My probably repeating 8 almost 12 year old came home from practice and said the coach told them they need a Salto (back tuck) for beam. She has a bhs/bhs and ro/bt dismount. She can't go back to 7 as she had a really good year at 8. Is this true? She is working hard thru her growth spurt and this is a huge blow if it is true

To not get an up to level deduction, they need a series of two B flight skills, and 2 additional B or higher. With the BHS/BHS and RO/BT she already meets the flight series. She has one additional B. The way it is now, she would get an 0.05 deduction

 

[sewgood]

Take it or leave it., but this is the explanation I was given by USAG staff:

Flipping to the back is great for learning to generate rotation, but then you get to meets with these brand new super hard mats, and they don't want kids slamming their heads onto hard mats and getting concussions.

I guess I understand that. It just seems like it's the same problem with the FHS vault with straight body - it's not a true progression to the upper level (flipping) vaults.

 

[Mommyo2az]

I noticed in the appendix that the tsuk and yurchenko tuck vaults now seem to have a 10.0 start value for level 8. I hadn’t heard about that change before now, but I think that it makes so much sense to allow the tuck at full start value the first year they flip their vaults.

This was the change I was most excited about! As a judge,coach, and momma of a new level 8 this is a great thing!