Parents L10 gymnast (The Reality Of College Gymnastics)

[gym_dad32608]

I don’t like the ”everyone gets a trophy” notion, but the way this is set up is all kind of a hodge podge mess to me. Xcel is not being used for that purpose anymore, so quite a few gyms are now training high hours with the intent to eventually stream to the DP program. So there are now homeschooling xcel gymnasts competing against kids doing xcel recreationally.

What you are saying is like chasing the dragon, you will never catch it. I genuinely understand your position, but we can re-org, Excel, DP, etc, and there will always be individuals, coaches, gyms that will push for higher results all for various reasons. It's human nature, that is not going to change.

We are doing youth sports with possible college aspirations, but to achieve that goal, it has gotten so crazy that kids have to devote their entire childhood to a sport and go elite to achieve that kind of like a full time job.

Again, we can lament how youth sports has changed over the last 20 years, but it is also human nature. We as a society continue to push more and more, little league world series on prime time national tv, high school football players signing multi-million dollar NIL deals. All of it is feeding into this desire to perfect athletic prowess sooner rather than later. I feel ya, I really do, I just don't see it changing any time soon. We live in a small town with one gym and no L10s. The closest gym with competitive training is 2 hours away.

 

[LJL07]

What you are saying is like chasing the dragon, you will never catch it. I genuinely understand your position, but we can re-org, Excel, DP, etc, and there will always be individuals, coaches, gyms that will push for higher results all for various reasons. It's human nature, that is not going to change.


Again, we can lament how youth sports has changed over the last 20 years, but it is also human nature. We as a society continue to push more and more, little league world series on prime time national tv, high school football players signing multi-million dollar NIL deals. All of it is feeding into this desire to perfect athletic prowess sooner rather than later. I feel ya, I really do, I just don't see it changing any time soon. We live in a small town with one gym and no L10s. The closest gym with competitive training is 2 hours away.

Yeah, really this is a philosophical conversation more than anything. It’s not changing. I don’t think this direction is healthy for kids or families, and it’s a shame it has to be like this.

 

[gym_dad32608]

Yeah, really this is a philosophical conversation more than anything. It’s not changing. I don’t think this direction is healthy for kids or families, and it’s a shame it has to be like this.

I think we can all agree with that. At the end of the day, we are all just trying to raise our kids the best way we think and within our limitations.

 

[Gigi]

If this was a job a job interview and someone with more experience and a degree came at the interview at the same time as you, would you complain about the resources that person had or would work try harder to get the job? I know a WHOLE LOT of girls that live in small states that kill it in JO

A fresh out of college job candidate would be applying for an entry level job, and someone with 5 years experience is probably applying for a more senior position. So they don't really compete with one another.

 

[Ty’s Dad]

A fresh out of college job candidate would be applying for an entry level job, and someone with 5 years experience is probably applying for a more senior position. So they don't really compete with one

A fresh out of college job candidate would be applying for an entry level job, and someone with 5 years experience is probably applying for a more senior position. So they don't really compete with one another.

I had to read my stuff over because I didn’t say anything about fresh out of college

 

[Ty’s Dad]

A fresh out of college job candidate would be applying for an entry level job, and someone with 5 years experience is probably applying for a more senior position. So they don't really compete with one another.

I said they’re applying for the same job as you. But this can also be what my daughter is about to go through now. She just qualified for Jr Elite but going up against girls that’s 15 and has been an elite for years. I already know how my daughter is and trust me she won’t be complaining about how long they been elite if she loses, and my wife and I 100% won’t say that. You got to that stage give it your all and it is what it is. Only excuse you can use is if you’re hurt, but saying they been doing it longer and more experience no way

 

[LJL07]

I said they’re applying for the same job as you. But this can also be what my daughter is about to go through now. She just qualified for Jr Elite but going up against girls that’s 15 and has been an elite for years. I already know how my daughter is and trust me she won’t be complaining about how long they been elite if she loses, and my wife and I 100% won’t say that. You got to that stage give it your all and it is what it is. Only excuse you can use is if you’re hurt, but saying they been doing it longer and more experience no way

This is not the same as what I’m talking about. Your family has chosen to fully invest in gymnastics. All of the junior elites are fully invested and do intensive training.

My daughter isn’t complaining either. She does her very best with what we have here. I’m really the one doing the complaining.

 

[Ty’s Dad]

This is not the same as what I’m talking about. Your family has chosen to fully invest in gymnastics. All of the junior elites are fully invested and do intensive training.

My daughter isn’t complaining either. She does her very best with what we have here. I’m really the one doing the complaining.

And I’m talking to you about the complaining, I never said a child. You’re 100% correct every kid who goes Hopes/Elite are fully invested from the kid to the family. So if you and your family chose to go a different route you can’t say things are not fair. Switch gyms or states if you want better training.

 

[Gigi]

I said they’re applying for the same job as you. But this can also be what my daughter is about to go through now. She just qualified for Jr Elite but going up against girls that’s 15 and has been an elite for years. I already know how my daughter is and trust me she won’t be complaining about how long they been elite if she loses, and my wife and I 100% won’t say that. You got to that stage give it your all and it is what it is. Only excuse you can use is if you’re hurt, but saying they been doing it longer and more experience no way

Unless I read it incorrectly, your statement aimed to make a parallel example of job interview to Level 10 competition. First year Level 10 vs 5 year Level 10 would be equivalent to first year job candidate to 5 year job candidate.

 

[LJL07]

And I’m talking to you about the complaining, I never said a child. You’re 100% correct every kid who goes Hopes/Elite are fully invested from the kid to the family. So if you and your family chose to go a different route you can’t say things are not fair. Switch gyms or states if you want better training.

I’m arguing with you (pointlessly) because you just don’t get it. There is literally no gym within the state for us to switch to. I don’t think you can imagine how weak the training is over here bc your daughter is at a solid program in California and you are surrounded by plenty of options if that one doesn’t work out. And I’m making the point that it’s sad and ridiculous that a child would need to move states to get to level 10. That is tremendously burdensome on the child and family.

 

[gym_dad32608]

I’m arguing with you (pointlessly) because you just don’t get it. There is literally no gym within the state for us to switch to. I don’t think you can imagine how weak the training is over here bc your daughter is at a solid program in California and you are surrounded by plenty of options if that one doesn’t work out. And I’m making the point that it’s sad and ridiculous that a child would need to move states to get to level 10. That is tremendously burdensome on the child and family.

I get both of your points, feeling its sad and ridiculous is a rational response. But I think what Ty's dad is saying, is that its not going change anything. So you are left with the decision of making that move or just finding some balance that you can learn to live with it. As I said earlier, we are in a similar situation as you. Small town, one marginal gym. We made the choice to commute 2 hours each way every day to the nearest competitive gym so our daughter can do elite and college. I understand that's not for everyone, and I understand some folks would just say we are crazy, but in the face of possible decisions, that was the one we made. I think Ty's Dad is saying you can do the same too, otherwise, stop being sad and move forward.

 

[LJL07]

I get both of your points, feeling its sad and ridiculous is a rational response. But I think what Ty's dad is saying, is that its not going change anything. So you are left with the decision of making that move or just finding some balance that you can learn to live with it. As I said earlier, we are in a similar situation as you. Small town, one marginal gym. We made the choice to commute 2 hours each way every day to the nearest competitive gym so our daughter can do elite and college. I understand that's not for everyone, and I understand some folks would just say we are crazy, but in the face of possible decisions, that was the one we made. I think Ty's Dad is saying you can do the same too, otherwise, stop being sad and move forward.

Sure. I’m really venting more than anything. I think Ty’s dad sounds very flippant although tone is hard to read on a message board. I question whether he would be quite as flippant if he lived somewhere else with no resources. No matter how talented the child is, you have to have a good gym and stable coaches. It’s a lot of investment with minimal payoff where we live. But I try very hard to focus on the other things they are gaining from the sport.

I actually have spoken to a parent of a junior elite who has been very successful. They split up their family and moved the daughter for better training. The olympics are still pretty much a shot in the dark, and the mom realizes they have done all of this probably to get a spot on a college team. She isn’t sure it was worth it in hindsight, but it’s easy to get in over your head.

I don’t think your commute sounds crazy if it’s truly a good gym. We commuted an hour each way for several years, but that gym was not producing anything either. A commute like that is too burdensome if it’s not really producing strong level 10s.

 

[doublestrike]

I find this conversation lost in reality a bit, if your gymnast wants to compete in D-1 she has to compete against the best, whether it be at a college with former elites or a smaller program who has to compete against that big P-5 conference school to get to nationals. If she doesn't have the skill set, she goes D-3. It is what it is. My daughter had many options through D-1 and is very happy on a super competitive team, she'd definitely get more comp time at a smaller D-1 program but ultimately chose the school she wanted to go to and was fortunate to do so, we didn't need a scholarship so she had more options. It doesn't help a level 10 gymnast whether she's a 1st year or not to compete against people not in her age group because at that point, she's competing against athletes she's in competition with to make college teams in her age group. Region 2 is considered the weakest region yet they had Jordan Chiles and Kaitlyn Ohashi, and a Cal freshman this year (Mya?) so the coaching is there, but parents have to decide what they want.

 

[lovofu]

If this was a job a job interview and someone with more experience and a degree came at the interview at the same time as you, would you complain about the resources that person had or would work try harder to get the job? I know a WHOLE LOT of girls that live in small states that kill it in JO

I think it is most frustrating that very very talented accomplished Level 10's are overlooked by coaches and media etc in favor of the "names" and you can have a "name" just because of social media presence. When coaches are very talented in making every member of the team feel valued for what THEY contribute that feeling of frustration is much LESS.

 

[lovofu]

If this was a job a job interview and someone with more experience and a degree came at the interview at the same time as you, would you complain about the resources that person had or would work try harder to get the job? I know a WHOLE LOT of girls that live in small states that kill it in JO

How about you go to a job interview equally as talented but the other person has 50K followers on instagram and the company hires them to increase their following? Frustrating

 

[cmg]

I am not a big fan of the "Professionals" stepping down from elite level into college, but I also agree that is not going to change. I do compare it to for instance, if LeBron James did one or two years of the pro's and then wanted to play college basketball someplace. I am pretty sure NCAA would not let that happen, but honestly, I am not even sure anymore. I think it used to be based on earnings etc, but that has all changed now with NIL. I guess what I would like to see is that if the "pro's" are going to continue to step down and compete in college then USA gymnastics should help support more D2 and D3 schools so that more normal but still talented athletes have a shot at college gymnastics. I believe if you are successful at getting to Level 10 gymnastics you are a pretty talented athlete compared to some other sports. There should be more opportunity for these athletes. I also am realistic and know that new gymnastics programs take a lot of money, coaches, and facilities, and not all schools can afford something like this.

 

[LJL07]

I find this conversation lost in reality a bit, if your gymnast wants to compete in D-1 she has to compete against the best, whether it be at a college with former elites or a smaller program who has to compete against that big P-5 conference school to get to nationals. If she doesn't have the skill set, she goes D-3. It is what it is. My daughter had many options through D-1 and is very happy on a super competitive team, she'd definitely get more comp time at a smaller D-1 program but ultimately chose the school she wanted to go to and was fortunate to do so, we didn't need a scholarship so she had more options. It doesn't help a level 10 gymnast whether she's a 1st year or not to compete against people not in her age group because at that point, she's competing against athletes she's in competition with to make college teams in her age group. Region 2 is considered the weakest region yet they had Jordan Chiles and Kaitlyn Ohashi, and a Cal freshman this year (Mya?) so the coaching is there, but parents have to decide what they want.

If you are referring to me, I am not lost in reality one bit. My girls who are naturally very talented do not stand a chance unless we move away. That is the reality. The point I was trying to make is that everyone does NOT have the "same 24 hours in a day" as Ty's Dad stated. Not at all. We have a lot of little prize winning level 6s in the state who are homeschooling and think they will earn a college scholarship. That is just not happening.

 

[LJL07]

I find this conversation lost in reality a bit, if your gymnast wants to compete in D-1 she has to compete against the best, whether it be at a college with former elites or a smaller program who has to compete against that big P-5 conference school to get to nationals. If she doesn't have the skill set, she goes D-3. It is what it is. My daughter had many options through D-1 and is very happy on a super competitive team, she'd definitely get more comp time at a smaller D-1 program but ultimately chose the school she wanted to go to and was fortunate to do so, we didn't need a scholarship so she had more options. It doesn't help a level 10 gymnast whether she's a 1st year or not to compete against people not in her age group because at that point, she's competing against athletes she's in competition with to make college teams in her age group. Region 2 is considered the weakest region yet they had Jordan Chiles and Kaitlyn Ohashi, and a Cal freshman this year (Mya?) so the coaching is there, but parents have to decide what they want.

It is not the region. Our region is very strong actually. Our STATE is laughable. It would be a pretty far move to go to one of the top 3 states in our region. You need the right GYM. The region is not that important.

 

[LJL07]

I am not a big fan of the "Professionals" stepping down from elite level into college, but I also agree that is not going to change. I do compare it to for instance, if LeBron James did one or two years of the pro's and then wanted to play college basketball someplace. I am pretty sure NCAA would not let that happen, but honestly, I am not even sure anymore. I think it used to be based on earnings etc, but that has all changed now with NIL. I guess what I would like to see is that if the "pro's" are going to continue to step down and compete in college then USA gymnastics should help support more D2 and D3 schools so that more normal but still talented athletes have a shot at college gymnastics. I believe if you are successful at getting to Level 10 gymnastics you are a pretty talented athlete compared to some other sports. There should be more opportunity for these athletes. I also am realistic and know that new gymnastics programs take a lot of money, coaches, and facilities, and not all schools can afford something like this.

Amen! It would be so great to see more D2 and D3 programs for the rest of the girls who have also worked hard. I am sure finances are a huge issue unfortunately. The opportunities are SO limited. So it is D1 or club basically?? There are so few D2 and D3 programs. My girls worked way too hard to do club which is basically level 8-ish.

 

[MaineDad]

Slightly off topic but... Regarding the elites in gyms overshadowing the L10s, this has to be very frustrating for the families. I wonder, whether in hindsight, would these families have chosen that type of gym or looked for a gym that only focused on college level aspirations? There are some trade-offs either way and of course even at a college bound gym, you may be overshadowed by others but chances are you will be all working on similar skills fit for college.

I think this is a really great point/suggestion. We relocated to a new state 3 years ago due to lack of exposure and training in the state we came from. We also needed to find an elite level gym for my gymnast and we checked out 3 gyms in the new state we were looking. Two had elite level training and regular college recruits coming to the gyms and this was exactly what we were looking for. The third gym was straight up and honest with us and told us that they don't focus on elite and they focus on getting their girls to the college level and they were very successful at this. We loved the coaches and the facility and if we weren't looking for the elite option we would have been very happy at this gym. We see them all the time at meets and their girls are great. So they are out there... there are gyms focussing on college and not elite. We found the perfect fit for us on the elite path and we are enjoying the ride. Good luck to you!