WAG level 4 to 7 gym policy

[3rd_time_around]

Our gyms rarely have girls repeat a compulsory level. It's been years since I can remember a girl repeating below level 7. And our teams have been so successful the past 3 years, it blows my mind! Our level 5 team (new 4) has won 15 straight meets, including 2 state titles, in 2012-2013. The 2013 team was a completely different team than the 2012 team. Our level3 team was undefeated until state (3rd in both novice and experienced) and that whole team is training the next level. So not all the gyms that win are using repeaters. They like to get the girls put of compulsories as soon as they can (safely and competently) to get to optionals. We score out of (old) 6 as well. At the optional level girls often repeat, but that is where they want them to repeat levels if they need to.

 

[happychaos]

If the true reason was to have the extra time to uptrain, then the gyms would not compete 5 again in the fall. .

Well......it is very little effort to have the kids compete 5 again, while training 7 skills, and WIN. Kids are happy, parents are happy, and coaches don't sacrifice much in the way of being able to uptrain.

 

[wallinbl]

Well......it is very little effort to have the kids compete 5 again, while training 7 skills, and WIN. Kids are happy, parents are happy, and coaches don't sacrifice much in the way of being able to uptrain.

When you think only of yourselves, then sure, everyone's happy. Well, except for the hard working girls you just thumped with your ringers.

Sorry to beat on this subject more. I don't think it's harmless; it's simply rude. "Hey, let's enter the level 5 meet with our level 7's - we can smoke them all and win state! It'll be awesome!"

 

[cbifoja]

"Hey, let's enter the level 5 meet with our level 7's - we can smoke them all and win state! It'll be awesome!"

Rather sad victory....... That's why I'm always so proud of our girls when we win the team portion of a meet. We don't stack our team with kids who are competing a level or two below their skill set. Our L5s aren't really L6s or L7s waiting around for next season. They are legitimately competing and training the L5 skills with some uptraining during the competition season but not spending the majority of their time uptraining.

 

[skschlag]

I have to admit, sometimes this talk is hard for me to hear, because people said this about my son. I know there are teams that do this constantly, but unless we are there, as the child's coach or parent, we are not privy to the decision making process. Maybe the child has an anxiety issue they are working through, attention issuse. maybe they don't want to move on without their friends. For my son, we kept him in level 5 an extra year to perfect his basics. He was in the top 30 in the region, but we kept him. He could have done ok at level 6, but he would have been throwing skills that he could do, and not gotten the basics down. Now that he has the basics really well, he is moving through the levels rather quickly.

On one hand we are condemning a coach for pushing a child through levels while at the same time, discussing how frustratign it is when they keep kids at a level and uptrain. IMO, that is a coach/parent/gymnast decision, and since I don't know what went into it, I just have to worry about what my kiddo is doing and the plan we have for him. I do know that boys is different in taht we have no score out scores..(which I love....) so coaches decide where a kid needs to be placed and compete.

 

[cbifoja]

I do agree that there are legitimate reasons to repeat and I NEVER care if a child repeats because they truly aren't ready to move on. My beef is when it is a team policy that kids repeat and then act like it's amazing that they are cleaning up at every meet. Ummm...yeah, if your L5 was getting 36s and 37s their first year of L5, then is it really that amazing that they are going to be winning most of their meets during their second year of L5? Especially if the reason they are a second year L5 has nothing to do with clear hips or back walkovers or saltos, but rather that it is gym policy.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Hijack alert,
I guess the next question should be, what time line did your DD follow to get to optionals.
example,
1 year in each level then straight to level 7 two months later,
1 year in each level then 7 the following season,
etc...
should be interesting to see what everyone has done.

 

[cbifoja]

Our season runs from October to March and we typically do one level per year, including last year's dreaded L6. We rarely repeat, rarely skip.

Our L6 score out thing was definitely an anomaly due to the upcoming changes and our coach wanting some flexibility for placement last year. Some of the girls who scored out of L6 may end up competing a full year of L5 next year. I don't consider that "repeating" since the girls who scored out didn't really spend a year competing that level. That is the pattern at our gym and has been since I've been there and I see no indication that these new changes will make a difference.

 

[htimcj]

Our gym usually does one year at each level no real skipping or not too much repeating.

 

[skschlag]

I have a boy, but on both sides there is no clear pattern. It is all based on the kids. All the way up. If a kid needs to repeat, they repeat. If they are ready to move on, they move on. But it is a collaborative decision. We had a little girl repeat a level that she had mastered because she was really young and wanted to stay with her friends. She wasn't ready to be the only little in a work out full of hs girls. They honored that feeling, she had a great year, and is now mature and ready to move on. IMO it should always be about the kid and what they need.

 

[Bajanswife]

I have a boy, but on both sides there is no clear pattern. It is all based on the kids. All the way up. If a kid needs to repeat, they repeat. If they are ready to move on, they move on. But it is a collaborative decision. We had a little girl repeat a level that she had mastered because she was really young and wanted to stay with her friends. She wasn't ready to be the only little in a work out full of hs girls. They honored that feeling, she had a great year, and is now mature and ready to move on. IMO it should always be about the kid and what they need.

This is exactly how our gym operates. We are small enough that we can easily do so - we don't need blanket policies.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Our season runs from October to March and we typically do one level per year, including last year's dreaded L6. We rarely repeat, rarely skip.

Our L6 score out thing was definitely an anomaly due to the upcoming changes and our coach wanting some flexibility for placement last year. Some of the girls who scored out of L6 may end up competing a full year of L5 next year. I don't consider that "repeating" since the girls who scored out didn't really spend a year competing that level. That is the pattern at our gym and has been since I've been there and I see no indication that these new changes will make a difference.

==
Our state runs a different format. Our compulsories run from Sept to Nov, our optionals obviously run with the rest of the country, Jan - May. So our placement for kids during compulsories is a little more strategic when it comes to moving them up because of the potential to compete two complete season in one year. So we are not really comparing apples to apples.

 

[wallinbl]

Hijack alert,
I guess the next question should be, what time line did your DD follow to get to optionals.
example,
1 year in each level then straight to level 7 two months later,
1 year in each level then 7 the following season,
etc...
should be interesting to see what everyone has done.

2 years in level 4 (fall), 1 in level 5 (fall), then 7 a year later (spring)

 

[wallflower]

Hijack alert,
I guess the next question should be, what time line did your DD follow to get to optionals.
example,
1 year in each level then straight to level 7 two months later,
1 year in each level then 7 the following season,
etc...
should be interesting to see what everyone has done.

DD did:

Fall level 4 and spring scored out of level 5
Fall level 6 and spring level 7

most gyms around here do:

fall level 4
fall level 5
fall level 6 and then immediately spring level 7

OR

fall level 4
fall level 5
then score out of 6 and train a year before competing level 7 the next spring.

DD's gym seems to drag out compulsories forever. Most girls do 2 years of level 5, some 2 years of level 4, many 2 years of level 6. Very few make the quick 6/7 jump. If you are scoring 35-36's as a first year in that level you will repeat. They will even repeat you a 3rd year without blinking an eye if you don't have the skills for the next level even if you scored 38's in the previous level.

 

[Seeker]

DD's gym seems to drag out compulsories forever. Most girls do 2 years of level 5, some 2 years of level 4, many 2 years of level 6. Very few make the quick 6/7 jump. If you are scoring 35-36's as a first year in that level you will repeat. They will even repeat you a 3rd year without blinking an eye if you don't have the skills for the next level even if you scored 38's in the previous level.

Man....that would be a drag. Our gym moves the kids when they're ready to move, which I fully support. I would balk at a 'policy' of repeating...seems too one size fits all for me. But we are a small gym so there is some flexibility that may not be there with larger groups.

 

[iwannacoach]

I think this discussion is a direct product of the flaws in a (USAG) system that attempts to offer a competitive experience to the majority of kids that walk through the door, stick around for a few years, and then start competing at L3 or L4. The problem is that the system makes no distiction or provision for programs that are more recreational, and programs that wish to make L10 a possibility for any child who can summon up the requisite collective ability, discipline, determination, and sacrifice.

There are no right answers when it comes to figuring out how to move a child through levels, as each program will look at the level system differently. Some will use to provide an experience to just about every child possible, but lump all kids into a participation based program that care little about helping kids become the gymnast they'd like to be. These children are at a distinct advantage when they go out to compete because they are subjected to the entire gymnastics population..... including those within that population that treat each child as a potential level 10.

I think most of the coaches that are driven to get kids past L8 would love to train and compete their kids up to a certain compulsory level, lets say L5, and then spend the next year on nothing but the skills best suited to long term optional development. Why have them compete, you ask, if the coach only wants to train for a smooth transition into the optional program. The answer is the kids and their parents, for the most part, would throw a fit if a competitive season were skipped in favor of the drudgery, that's right, of training, training, and more training.

I get the whole "it's not fair" sentiment, but the USAG program isn't based on fairness, it's based on inclusion, participation, and competition. There really is nobody you can fairly place blame on when you consider the vastly diverse and numerous perspectives. Possibly there will come a day that splits the program into two camps..... one that, in a sense, excludes "optional or die" programs, and another that bears the warning "enter at your own risk."

 

[gymdog]

==
Our state runs a different format. Our compulsories run from Sept to Nov, our optionals obviously run with the rest of the country, Jan - May. So our placement for kids during compulsories is a little more strategic when it comes to moving them up because of the potential to compete two complete season in one year. So we are not really comparing apples to apples.

It's apples to oranges I guess, but I find it even more irritating that people compete kids as a level 5 in November knowing full well they are ready for level 7 in January. They should compete level 6, not compete, or do prep op meets (at the appropriate level) with their level 7 routines for extra practice. I understand "but it gives us more time to uptrain", yes, but I still don't see any reason why anyone has to compete level 5 as a level 7 other than to win. So I guess that's the bottom line and if you (general you, not aiming this at you specifically coachp) consider that the spirit of competition, go ahead with your bad self. Guess it's that much more satisfying when we're still top 3 despite having no one repeat.

 

[raenndrops]

We are in a YMCA gym... but we do compete the USAG Levels and routines and have the same judges as club gymnasts do. Our Zone has "MANDATE" scores that force a gymnast to move up at the beginning of the next season if she achieves them. Whereas USAG only has MINIMUM scores (which only have to be earned in a meet once), our gymnasts have to earn the USAG minimum 2x in a season for the opportunity to move up. Then, if they meet or exceed the MANDATE score twice in a season with AA and event scores achieved in the SAME MEETS (33.0 with 8.25 per event @ old level 4; 34.0 with 8.0 per event @ old level 5; 33.0 and 7.75 per event at old level 6, etc.). This was designed to prevent coaches from holding girls back in order to WIN with 2nd year gymnasts who were ready to move up. The only way a gymnast who mandated could repeat would be to petition with an explanation of WHY she could not move up.

I think USAG needs to have MANDATE scores... but not as low as ours - maybe if you score a 36+ or 37+ in 3 meets at a level, you have to move up the next season.

With new 4 & 5, there is very little difference in the routines (except acro skills).

With the mandates, our gym is like yours in that they do not have much time to uptrain. Our season goes from October - mid-March (District Championships)... and those who qualify can compete YMCA Nationals at the end of June/ beginning of July. Our uptraining occurs end of March thru June.
We are off in July (except for 2 weeks of REC Camp that the girls act as Jr. Counselors for and can work any event not being used... and the last 2 weeks we have TEAM Camp where they learn their routines for the new season - this is new this year. Each level has 8 hours devoted just to them, of which they are required to be there 4 hours. There's also an optional extra 2 hours for any level to come.)
Once the season begins, a girl can't uptrain unless she has earned a 9.0 on the event in question unless it is at an open gym time.

 

[GymMom1919]

In the old system aka this last year. We did a full year of 4. Full year of 5. Tested out of 6 (1 meet) and are now training for 7 USAG.

 

[GymMom1919]

Our daughter scored 38 for 5, above 36
For 6 (would have been higher but she slipped on bars) but her 36 was enough for our coaches to move her on to 7