level 8 giants

[sportyfam5]

Is there any other options to doing giants at level 8? I believe they need to handstands and two circling elements. I was just wondering what else would cover these requirements. My daughter is having trouble getting her giants. She has gotten them once in a while over the past year or so ugh!!
She claims to want to do them, I was just hoping until they are competition ready she could do something else.

 

[sportzmomov3]

Hmm, I'm sure one of the coaches will confirm, but I don't believe you can do level 8 bars without giants...just curious, how did she get through level 7 without giants - I think giants are required starting with level 7.

 

[sportyfam5]

Hmm, I'm sure one of the coaches will confirm, but I don't believe you can do level 8 bars without giants...just curious, how did she get through level 7 without giants - I think giants are required starting with level 7.

Several gymnasts in our area do not do giants at L7. My daughter actually got 3rd at early states with no giants. So I don't believe they are required. The meet we were just at, I think had only a handful of L7's out of about 60 do giants. My younger daughter has had giants since level 5 so she did compete them at L7. Her coaches do plan to have her at least attempt them at the meets. I was just looking for a loophole I guess.

 

[gym law mom]

Hmm, I'm sure one of the coaches will confirm, but I don't believe you can do level 8 bars without giants...just curious, how did she get through level 7 without giants - I think giants are required starting with level 7.

Giants are not required at L7---many gyms make them a requirement to compete that level. The requirment is 2 circling elements so that can be acheived by doing 2 free hips.

Does she have a pirouette or shootover yet? She needs one of those or a straddle back in her routine also. Even if she had to take a deduction on the free hip on high bar, I would think that would be less stressful than just "attempting" a giant when she's not ready.

 

[bookworm]

Well you "need " giants in Level 8 to do really well and for progress in the future to Levels 9 and 10 so while you could cheat at the skill now, it definitely will be necessary at some point...

 

[flipper's fan]

You need 4 A skills and 4 B skills plus the special requirements which are:
Minimum of one bar change
2 elements same or different, minimum of B, one with flight or turn, one from group 3,6, or 7
Salto/hecht dismount minimum of A

Clear hip circles fulfill the requirements for the start value, however you will probably see those pesky deductions for not being up to competitive standards and you can expect form on those clear hips to be judged hard.

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[gympanda]

You can definitely compete L8 without giants. I judge this routine frequently:
Kip, Squat on, Straddle Back, Kip, Squat on, Uprise, Backhip, Undershoot, Uprise, Free Hip, Flyaway.

It starts from a 10, but will have an automatic .2 deduction for not having any elements that go to handstand. If handstands are not the problem with the giant, then substitute a handstand piroutte for the straddle back and you'll reduce that .2 deduction (it depends on the judge how much.)

In L8 there really isn't that much composition on bars. Composition would be:
Lack of variety in elements and connection (up to .1)...on this routine I would take .5 since 2 Bs are the same skill.
Lack of elements that achieve or pass through vertical (up to .2)
Insufficient Distribution of Value Parts (up to .1)...since your Bs are spread through the whole routine this wouldn't be applicable to the routine mentioned above.

My point being that L8 has no requirement for giants so its completely viable to compete and score relatively well. L9 is obviously more difficult since a lot of the common C skills come from a gianting base. But, if your goal is L8 and giants are your biggest obstacle, and if your gym is willing then there is no reason to not compete with a routine like I mentioned above.

 

[sportyfam5]

Does she have a pirouette or shootover yet? She needs one of those or a straddle back in her routine also. Even if she had to take a deduction on the free hip on high bar, I would think that would be less stressful than just "attempting" a giant when she's not ready.[/QUOTE]

She has a straddle back. So I think only major deduction would be giant. She has good form but doesn't hit handstands. She is a bit of a perfectionist so sometimes that complicates things. She is not one of those "go for it and fix it later" kids.
Thanks for advice.

 

[sportyfam5]

You need 4 A skills and 4 B skills plus the special requirements which are:
Minimum of one bar change
2 elements same or different, minimum of B, one with flight or turn, one from group 3,6, or 7
Salto/hecht dismount minimum of A

Clear hip circles fulfill the requirements for the start value, however you will probably see those pesky deductions for not being up to competitive standards and you can expect form on those clear hips to be judged hard.

Link Removed

I have read that list of requirements but not really sure what A's and B's are. She has a straddle back and flyaway. Would the clear hips on both bars fulfill requirements but just take hard deductions?

 

[gympanda]

Straddle back, handstands, free hips and giants are all Bs. Unless it turns, a flyaway is an A. Clear hips would count as Bs as long as they are above horizontal. If she is getting to 45 degrees then there are likely very, very few deductions to take on the skill. I'm not sure why everyone thinks we judge free hips to "hard". We are simply looking for the angle of completion and taking the predetermined deductions, plus sometimes some bent arms. Plus we definitely aren't judging free hips "harder" on a girl who doesn't do giants.

If she does a straddle back and two clear hips she is still missing a B. As I mentioned above a lot of L8s who don't have giants will do uprises...her other option is to a handstand, but it sounds like maybe that is something that is still in the works.

 

[flipper's fan]

I didn't think that girls were judged harder for not having a giant, but that the clear hips have to be good ie the angle of completion has to be met.
Sorry! I really appreciate you always answering these questions for us, gympanda.

 

[sportyfam5]

Well she will be doing a fun meet on Sunday at our gym so we'll see how things go. Thanks to all.

Gympanda..it is great to hear a judges point of view. Thanks

 

[gymcoach34]

Straddle back, handstands, free hips and giants are all Bs. Unless it turns, a flyaway is an A. Clear hips would count as Bs as long as they are above horizontal. If she is getting to 45 degrees then there are likely very, very few deductions to take on the skill. I'm not sure why everyone thinks we judge free hips to "hard". We are simply looking for the angle of completion and taking the predetermined deductions, plus sometimes some bent arms. Plus we definitely aren't judging free hips "harder" on a girl who doesn't do giants.

Around here, even in L7, the kids get killed for every hs that is not within 10 degrees, as well as clear hips. The judges might deny it, but its very apparent in scoring, esp at L8. I have seen routines w/ bent arm cast hs and bent arm & arched up clear hip hs beat a clean routine that meets requirements many times.......

 

[gymnut1]

Around here, even in L7, the kids get killed for every hs that is not within 10 degrees, as well as clear hips. The judges might deny it, but its very apparent in scoring, esp at L8. I have seen routines w/ bent arm cast hs and bent arm & arched up clear hip hs beat a clean routine that meets requirements many times.......

im sorry I am having trouble following this - do you mean a sloppy routine with giants beats a clean routine without or am I missing something. I don't believe that a sloppy routine can beat a clean routine with all requirements. That doesn't make sense.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

Judging from the videos on your YouTube page, your older daughter would be scratching bars or more likely competing level 7 and uptraining her floor skils if she went to my gym. Here (at my gym) fairly consistent giants and kip cast handstand are required to compete level 7...in the competitive USAG track (as opposed to prep optional) you really do need giants to be successful. I guess on some level the coaches think a L7 or 8 bar routine without giants isn't "really" that level, even if technically giants are not required.

 

[gymdog]

Around here, even in L7, the kids get killed for every hs that is not within 10 degrees, as well as clear hips. The judges might deny it, but its very apparent in scoring, esp at L8. I have seen routines w/ bent arm cast hs and bent arm & arched up clear hip hs beat a clean routine that meets requirements many times.......

Yeah. Clean routines without giants and clear hip HSs here just do not score well even in L7 even when they technically meet the requirements (before the HS rule as well). L7 bars is viciously competitive because the routines is relatively easy for girls who can swing. My state isn't usually into big scores but I've seen L7 meets with 9.8s, 9.9s. Even clean horizontal clear hips just can't crack into that. If they could even attempt the giant safely at L7 with relatively decent form, I'd probably risk falls just so they could get the experience of warming it up and competing it. I can't imagine having a kid compete L8 bars without giants. Personally I wouldn't do it if she is anywhere close to a giant. I understand if she was older and didn't have many years of gymnastics yet and had no chance of a giant during this season, but that doesn't sound like the case. She seems pretty good but maybe just a little behind on this skill. I'd stick with pushing the giants in that case, every time. She should work on giants more than anything else.

Will her coaches even allow her to compete L8 without giants? I'm not sure I'm completely clear on the situation.

Edit: I looked at your videos. It looks like she has giants, they just aren't 100%? i think she needs to practice routines with giants and not spend time on other things, is I guess what I'm getting at. She has a tsuk and back tucks on beam, etc. This she's just a little behind on but she seems strong and can do the cast handstands. So I think she just needs to spend time on it. Giants are a process for a lot of girls. Sometimes it's more a confidence thing than anything.

 

[sportyfam5]

[QUOTE

Edit: I looked at your videos. It looks like she has giants, they just aren't 100%? i think she needs to practice routines with giants and not spend time on other things, is I guess what I'm getting at. She has a tsuk and back tucks on beam, etc. This she's just a little behind on but she seems strong and can do the cast handstands. So I think she just needs to spend time on it. Giants are a process for a lot of girls. Sometimes it's more a confidence thing than anything.[/QUOTE]

Just to clear up things for those of you watching videos, I have 2 dd's 14 months apart competing L8. My older daughter is much more graceful but struggling with skills. My younger daughter has the skills but struggles with form. We have always wanted to merge them for a perfect gymnast. Our gym does have giants as a requirement for L8. In fact HC used to require it for L7 but for some reason has let that go. None of our current L7's do giants, but several are high school girls who really have little chance of advancing beyond L7.
My older DD did attempt giants today at a fun meet with no luck. She understands what she needs to do just can't get it. I think she just needs a little more mental determination.

 

[eandreano1]

subsitute for level 8 giants

One of my friends doesn't have her giants yet either and she did a clear hip handstand to an immediate flyaway, and my other friend she did a straddle back.

 

[flipper's fan]

Two level 8's on our team- one does giants with some form issues, one does not, both leave out the flight or turn element- the one without giants scored higher at two meets. The one with giants gets a hgiher start value. It's possible.