Women Mill circle and front hip circle troubles

[suebee]

Dd (6) is competing level 2 and training level 3. She is overall doing well but she is having a hard time with bars, especially with the mill circle, front hip circle, and shoot through. I know these skills are difficult for many girls, but I can't help but think that part of why she is struggling is the way bars is practiced.

Dd's team is large and the gymnast to coach ratio is 12-15:1, depending on the day. They do stations at bars. One station is coach spotting them on the level 3 routine. The rest of the stations, the girls work alone and are, I feel, not watched closely by the coach during the stations because she is spotting and there are just so many girls.

The bars stations that are bars are not drills or progressions but the skill itself. So 1 station is front hip circle, but for my dd, who can't do a FHC, I don't see how this is helpful, and in fact, makes me wonder whether she is picking up bad habits this way as I don't see how this is any different than her trying to do it at home. Another station is level 2 routine, but since my dd misses her mill circle about as often as she makes it, I wonder whether this is the same and that she's picking up bad habits that's making it harder.

In addition, because there are so many girls, each girl only gets spotted for 2-3 min during a 30 min bar session, so my dd gets only 6-9 min/week of direct coaching for these bar skills, and I can't help but thinking that she might never get these skills at that rate.

Now, many of the girls on her team do have these skills, so perhaps a large part of the problem is dd. But I know that a good number of girls do regular privates and dd has not done any, and I'm wondering whether she needs to.

Does this sound typical for these lower level compulsory levels? I think dd would do much better with some drills and progressions like I have seen on youube, but her coach doesn't seem to use any.

 

[gymdog]

She'll get it. If you take a break from watching for awhile, she'll have made more progress. In gymnastics progress is slow and comparing day to day is frustrating. It could take 6 months or more of training to get a front hip circle.

 

[Ex member]

The back hip circle took my youngest dd near enough 6 months to get, they only have 1 coach but to a smaller ratio 7:1, they don't always woke on back hip circles and do different things like working on straddle undershoot dismount and assisted squat ons and sometimes jumping to high bar, they also have started jumping from a trampette into a handstand on the bar then dropping into a flatback onto crash mats.

Don't worry the skills will come, I have found out that they need to get stronger first then the skills become that much easier to get and stick, dd has been doing 5 hours a week since April and 2 1/2 hours a week 3 months before that.

 

[Sasha]

Dd (6) is competing level 2 and training level 3. She is overall doing well but she is having a hard time with bars, especially with the mill circle, front hip circle, and shoot through. I know these skills are difficult for many girls, but I can't help but think that part of why she is struggling is the way bars is practiced.

Dd's team is large and the gymnast to coach ratio is 12-15:1, depending on the day. They do stations at bars. One station is coach spotting them on the level 3 routine. The rest of the stations, the girls work alone and are, I feel, not watched closely by the coach during the stations because she is spotting and there are just so many girls.

The bars stations that are bars are not drills or progressions but the skill itself. So 1 station is front hip circle, but for my dd, who can't do a FHC, I don't see how this is helpful, and in fact, makes me wonder whether she is picking up bad habits this way as I don't see how this is any different than her trying to do it at home. Another station is level 2 routine, but since my dd misses her mill circle about as often as she makes it, I wonder whether this is the same and that she's picking up bad habits that's making it harder.

In addition, because there are so many girls, each girl only gets spotted for 2-3 min during a 30 min bar session, so my dd gets only 6-9 min/week of direct coaching for these bar skills, and I can't help but thinking that she might never get these skills at that rate.

Now, many of the girls on her team do have these skills, so perhaps a large part of the problem is dd. But I know that a good number of girls do regular privates and dd has not done any, and I'm wondering whether she needs to.

Does this sound typical for these lower level compulsory levels? I think dd would do much better with some drills and progressions like I have seen on youube, but her coach doesn't seem to use any.

While the ratio does sound less than ideal, I don't recall too many drills for Mill and FHC other than just try try try try try again and finally it comes. True, the spotting on the FHC can (imo) advance the learning time. Our gym didn't seem to have much of that either, though - we had 9 girls in our practice group when my DD was learning these. To be honest, my DD learned these on the playground at school through endless repetition while on pre-team. She had these 2 skills many many many months before her peers (especially FHC which can take forever). So conceptually, she did the same 'stations' your DD is doing, just outside of class. She was a young age 7 at the time.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much yet. The FHC in particular can take girls over a year of trying. The Mill Circle can also be elusive to stick consistently despite a year or two of learning it. If you are otherwise happy, I'd stick this early level out since your DD is only 6.

Edited: Meaning 6 year olds usually struggle with these skills even more than slightly older girls, so extra patience for the littles is required

 

[Deleted member 14190]

What Gymdog said

 

[Rockygym]

If it helps, my DD, also 6 is having similar issues. At her meet last weekend, she fell on the FHC then had to hook her leg on the mill circle. As others have said I think it will become more consistent as I think little ones at this age also don't have the necessary body control. Hang in there and don't sweat the "small" stuff as I am quickly learning

 

[gymdog]

There are some drills that will help with FHC and mill circle but not tons, sometimes they just have to get the idea first...maybe the coach is just introducing the concept this year, and will do more drills over the summer to refine it.

 

[Mimiluv]

One problem I noticed when coaching and teaching girls the Mill circle was this.

They have to stay pushed up off of the bar the WHOLE TIME and in a hollow chest. Many of them when they start to fall forward to go around drop back down on to the bar or let the leg behind the bar hit the bar, no no. They must stay pushed up off of the bar and high as they can to get enough speed to get around. When they go back down on to the bar it slows them down.


That is WAY to many girls for one coach!!

 

[LJL07]

If it helps, my DD, also 6 is having similar issues. At her meet last weekend, she fell on the FHC then had to hook her leg on the mill circle. As others have said I think it will become more consistent as I think little ones at this age also don't have the necessary body control. Hang in there and don't sweat the "small" stuff as I am quickly learning

Yup, mine is 7 and has had her mill circle for a while, but still sometimes hooks her leg. annnd after doing beautiful mill circles for the couple of practices leading up to their mock meet, she over rotated on the mill circle at the meet. It does help not to watch as the progress seems much more significant when you finally do see them perform. I agree that is a very large group of kids though. I don't think mine could focus well in a group that size.

 

[lovegymnastics22]

I hear what you are going through. IMHO these skills are really hard and the ability to do them well is what separates the team vs rec girls in our gym. So you really just have to be patient. Our girls started learning good form Mill circle/ FHC on preteam 2 years ago and are now competing them in lvl3. They didn't even try connecting them until about a year ago but just practiced and practiced (which may be a good thing about not having a lvl2 team). Sometimes, even the best ones still hook the MC or miss the shoot through in practice, and are really only now getting the FHCs with straight arms. Repetition is really the only thing I've seen that works, except for strength training. I've heard our coach say she is happy to get girls out of lvl3 because then they never have to do a mill circle again!

 

[suebee]

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

I would like to clarify that I do not watch practice very often. I might catch a few minutes here and there, but dd tells me that all practices are set up the same way and they do the same things at every practice. My concerns are not because I'm watching practice all the time.

What I hear everyone saying is that it takes time and repetitive practice to get these skills, which I understand and makes perfect sense. What I am wondering, though, is whether what dd is doing at practice is enough to be considered repetitive practice. My concern is that it is not. I am also wondering whether doing repetitive practice for a skill she does not have, or does not have consistently, while unsupervised is beneficial or harmful. If it is beneficial, should I allow her to practice these skills in that way outside of practice? It seems that the gist of the mantra here on CB is that gym stays at gym and girls should not practice skills outside of gym unsupervised, but when this is what is happening at practice, should I not be concerned?

 

[3LittleGymmies]

If this is pre-team at a gym with a strong optional program, I would "trust the process". Sometimes, I catch myself questioning why they are doing/not doing something or the way they are doing it or how little they are doing it.. and then I remember that they produce excellent gymnasts and know what they are doing. If your gym doesn't have a strong optional program and doesn't do well in the higher levels or the compulsory girls are repeating a lot, then I would worry a little bit more. You can always try another gym to see if you like the way practices are run better, it's definitely easier to make that kind of switch before team. My younger gymnast has been on Level 3 for four months and wasn't working shoot through/mill circle before that. She has her mill circle now (hooks her leg sometimes), but not the shoot through yet and she doesn't have her front hip circle yet. She gets maybe 4-5 turns total a practice spotted on these skills and the rest of the stations are drills for them.

 

[Sasha]

If it is beneficial, should I allow her to practice these skills in that way outside of practice? It seems that the gist of the mantra here on CB is that gym stays at gym and girls should not practice skills outside of gym unsupervised, but when this is what is happening at practice, should I not be concerned?

Your description of the stations thus far sounds pretty well within the norm. A few tries spotted with a coach per class at one station, and self-practice on the unsupervised stations. There just aren't that many extra drills for those two skills outside of just attempting them, and of course having a coach spot when possible (particularly FHC). And though your group is on the large side, a typical group with 8-10 gymmies per coach still isn't going to get significantly more spotted turns. Maybe 1 or 2 more per session.

Now if it were kips, and there were zero drills, then perhaps we'd have a case to worry as there are tons of drills for those....

As for practicing outside of class, I think more concerns there are with any tumbling more advanced than round-offs (often kids practicing tucks and aerials on garden trampolines or grass), and of course anything dangerous like kids trying to do giants on their home bars (eek - yes you can find these on Youtube - eek). Imo, though, the L3 bar skills are no more dangerous than other typical playground bar behaviors kids do at recess. Heck, there are kids not even in gym doing BHCs and mill circles at school, and attempting plenty of FHCs - they're just copying the gymnast kids. I wouldn't BUY a home bar for this purpose, but if there is one about the right height with some kind of padded playground surface below it nearby, then personally, I wouldn't worry about safety. Risk seems comparable to most other playground activities. As for learning poor form, I'm pretty sure just about every girl first learns just the timing and balance aspects of Mill and FHC first, with form clean up after. Honestly, I just would not be worried at all based on what you have described. They will get it, and then they will work on cleaning it up.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I totally feel your frustration. My dd (level 3 - 7 y/o) struggled last season (level 2) with the mill circle -- she did not get it until the last couple of meets. The more difficult skill for mine is the shoot-thru (this season), and I catch myself sometimes questioning the process. HOWEVER -- at the last meet a week ago, my DD nailed her bar routine - even the shoot thru -- when I asked her HOW -- she said "Well, I just did EXACTLY what my coach has been telling me to do (for the past several months) AND IT WORKED." lol - who would have ever thought you should listen and try EXACTLY what the coach says?? keep your chin up mom, it will come!

 

[wallflower]

Sounds very typical. I have a higher level gymnast that I watched all the time at that age and now I have a younger one. I almost never watch the younger one and it's amazing how much faster her progress seems because I never watch. And my older gymnast progressed very, very fast, but I was way too worried about how she was doing. I almost never watch or think about the younger one. It's a blissful existence. I figure it comes when it comes. But the training you are describing sounds exactly like what I've seen.

 

[sce]

"Well, I just did EXACTLY what my coach has been telling me to do (for the past several months) AND IT WORKED." lol - who would have ever thought you should listen and try EXACTLY what the coach says??

Too funny. I think it takes them time to make sense of how to apply what the coach is telling them.