Women more black eye for college gymnastics

[GymDad9.9]

Isn't not allowing an athlete to immediately compete for another school fairly common across all sports? The athletes transfer to a new school and must wait a year before competing?

Yes, most of the time there is a one-year wait to compete for the new school. No with graduate transfers however. In Updike's case, according to my reading of her denial letter, she was essentially being denied the right to transfer to any Division I school and any Missouri school that offered gymnastics. Waiting a year was not pertinent to this situation from what I gather.

 

[wallinbl]

@wallinblHe was indefinitely suspended immediately upon the arrest, and dismissed from the football team within 1 week of his arrest - they didn't even wait for a trial/conviction.

Are you advocating for presumption of guilt upon arrest? Justice Department statistics put conviction rates on robbery arrests at around 1 in 8.

 

[GymDad9.9]

@wallinbl I guess we will have to disagree that the team needs to/should 'be the kind of people' who forgive someone who steals from another teammate, compounded by the theft being possible because she had access to the other gymnasts financial data due to being roommates. Talk about betrayal.

I think there can be forgiveness which doesn't make the offense consequence free. Forgiving someone does not mean they need to continue to be a teammate on a Div 1 college team. That is a privilege and being a convicted thief should throw a spanner in the works. And at Mizzou, being accused of this crime can get you dismissed from your team - if you haven't contributed...

In the same time period this was happening, a Mizzou football player was arrested for basically the same crime. He was indefinitely suspended immediately upon the arrest, and dismissed from the football team within 1 week of his arrest - they didn't even wait for a trial/conviction. The only difference I can see from the two incidents is that the gymnast in this case was a decorated contributor to the Mizzou gymnastics program and the football player (due to injury) hadn't played a single game during his athletic career at the college.

If the Mizzou football player was African-American, there may be even more mitigating factors at play here.

 

[QueenBee]

Are you advocating for presumption of guilt upon arrest? Justice Department statistics put conviction rates on robbery arrests at around 1 in 8.

Nope, what I was pointing out was the disparate treatment given by the athletic department of Mizzou. I can't find if the football player was convicted (though he was dumped from the team within a week of arrest). However, the gymnast pled guilty/been convicted and is still on the gymnastic team. It's the difference between the two cases that is extremely troubling.

 

[QueenBee]

If the Mizzou football player was African-American, there may be even more mitigating factors at play here.

He is.

 

[mommyof1]

Are you advocating for presumption of guilt upon arrest? Justice Department statistics put conviction rates on robbery arrests at around 1 in 8.

Which data set? Felony Defendants in Large Urban Counties, 2009 has the conviction rate at 66 percent for felony robbery arrests.

(I am not at all advocating for a presumption of guilt, just surprised to see a conviction rate that low. It's also important to keep in mind that there are ways to resolve criminal charges that technically result in a dismissal even though the defendant admits guilt or is in fact guilty.)

 

[coachmolly]

Actually, Missouri football was pretty good during 2013 and 2014. They've been awful since then. Basketball has been a different story and they have had major public failures up until now in getting a top flight (and clean) coach to run the program. They've made some poor choices with basketball over the past few years; however, they recently hired Cuonzo Martin, an East St. Louis native who left Cal-Berkely, to take over basketball so I expect some stability there going forward.

From the piece, I didn't like the full block on Updike's release to other schools; that came across as vindictive, but as I gather from reading here, it's pretty common behavior against transferring gymnasts.

I was mostly talking about gymnastics. I don't know anything about other sports- you're last post is essentially a foreign language

 

[2gymmies]

Another little piece to the puzzle... if Shannon just started there then the athletes he inherited were not "his" athletes. They were recruited and signed before him. It is often the case that you see some athletes that depart when a new coach comes in.

 

[GymDad9.9]

Another little piece to the puzzle... if Shannon just started there then the athletes he inherited were not "his" athletes. They were recruited and signed before him. It is often the case that you see some athletes that depart when a new coach comes in.

He was hired in May 2013.

 

[2gymmies]

He was hired in May 2013.

Exactly... the article talks about the 13-14 and 14-15 seasons.

ETA... the theft I guess occurred in the 15-16 season, but I still contend that some of the girls on the team at that point were still not his recruits.

 

[txgymfan]

It just seems like gymnasts in general, feel more comfortable coming forward and sharing their expirences. That is a good thing for gymnastics and women's sports. Even if you don't believe everyone, at least they are speaking out and less afraid.

 

[duyetanh]

It just seems like gymnasts in general, feel more comfortable coming forward and sharing their expirences. That is a good thing for gymnastics and women's sports. Even if you don't believe everyone, at least they are speaking out and less afraid.

This. While we dont know the whole story, and only the people involved know it all, the fact that they are coming forward is something somewhat new. My college coach in a different sport was fired for very valid reasons....yet none of us spoke out. Many, many college coaches across the sports board are amazing coaches as well as incredible people, and it just sucks that a few bad apples can potentially jade the rest of them.

 

[bookworm]

Isn't not allowing an athlete to immediately compete for another school fairly common across all sports? The athletes transfer to a new school and must wait a year before competing?

The coach could have chosen to release her to look at other schools...and if there was such a disconnect between coach and athlete, then it does seem vindictive on Welker's part not to grant the release she applied for....having seen this happen before (sadly), it does not surprise me. The athletes we knew had to threaten to sue the school, then the AD stepped in and told the coach to grant the release......sigh...

 

[raenndrops]

Isn't not allowing an athlete to immediately compete for another school fairly common across all sports? The athletes transfer to a new school and must wait a year before competing?

Actually, as long as the athlete is not transferring to another school in the same conference, with the release Updike was denied, she would have been able to compete without sitting out. Like someone can transfer from a B1G school to a Pac12 school and not wait a year if released.

 

[bookworm]

Actually, as long as the athlete is not transferring to another school in the same conference, with the release Updike was denied, she would have been able to compete without sitting out. Like someone can transfer from a B1G school to a Pac12 school and not wait a year if released.

Not necessarily true...the athletes I referenced above were transferring out of conference, and one was even a walk on ( parents were paying full freight!), and the coach fought them on where they were going, even though one never got money and she pulled the other one's scholarship so that's when they threatened a lawsuit and the AD had to step in. So technically, they should be allowed to transfer out of conference without penalty but the coach can still make it difficult for them, and some kids will cave and give in but these 2 didn't and were happier after their moves....but as I've said before, a transfer is no easy feat in NCAA.

 

[bookworm]

Link Removed

waiting for bookworm to chime in... =)

I have chimed

 

[Mom2-4]

Not necessarily true...the athletes I referenced above were transferring out of conference, and one was even a walk on ( parents were paying full freight!), and the coach fought them on where they were going, even though one never got money and she pulled the other one's scholarship so that's when they threatened a lawsuit and the AD had to step in. So technically, they should be allowed to transfer out of conference without penalty but the coach can still make it difficult for them, and some kids will cave and give in but these 2 didn't and were happier after their moves....but as I've said before, a transfer is no easy feat in NCAA.

I am not sure if it's a conference thing or not but Paige Zaziski transferred from Arkansas to Michigan and competed without a waiting period. Which made my daughter very happy as she is one of DDs favorite gymnasts.

 

[bookworm]

Zaziski was granted a release by Cook so she was free to compete...welker didn't do that with Updike

 

[raenndrops]

Zaziski was granted a release by Cook so she was free to compete...welker didn't do that with Updike

My post was regarding WITH a release as well. "with the release Updike was denied" … probably should have said "with a release (which Updike was denied)" …

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Without asking what happened I would have to say based on the handling that more happened behind the scenes. Ask yourself why the AD would keep someone on the team after a conviction and at the same time why would the person who pressed charges let go and not given a release. Folks either an unheard story is hidden in here or this is bad. I am naturally suspicious (as you know by now) , but one thing is certain ... a story lives behind the scenes.