MAG New quad Compulsory scoring now lower max?

[Sasha]

Someone correct me if I am reading this wrong..

I just looked more closely at the scoring table for Compulsory routines, and noticed that the base score is now 9.5 instead of 10.0, and virtuosity bonus is only up to .3 (vs up to .5 previous quad). So, with all bonuses, max scores are now .7 lower than last quad.

For example, last quad Levels 5 and 6 had a base score of 10.0, then 1.5 in specified bonuses, .5 for virtuosity bonuses, and .2 stick bonus, for a total max score of 12.2. With the reduced base score, the new maximum for Levels 5 and 6 is 11.5.

This will take some mental adjustment in what a 'good' score is. Not going to see many 11's any more!

Any input on the reasoning behind this change?

 

[sce]

I think you are right and the I believe the reasoning is for the no bonus division to have a max score of 10.0

 

[skschlag]

/LOL. Should have been around when we went from the kiddos getting 15 + and dropping to 10/11.

 

[2G1B]

/LOL. Should have been around when we went from the kiddos getting 15 + and dropping to 10/11.

That was what I was thinking too!

Si, will the non-binus group be able to get virtuosity bonuses? What is the max score for vault in bonus and non bonus? Does anyone know if the boys will have to declare before meets which they are doing, or if they are having an off day in warmups will they ve able to decide to do "no bonus" then? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the logistics of this...

 

[profmom]

I don't know, but I hope the national people come out with some guidance for meet directors. I figure they will have both divisions competing in the same session, but our head coach believes that unless they have it set up so that for each team, each division goes separately rather than just mixing them all up, it's going to create a big mess in judging.

Hahaha, the old scoring system. DS says that his goal as a gymnast is someday to get to the point where he tops the best AA score he achieved as a L4.

 

[Sasha]

That was what I was thinking too!

Si, will the non-binus group be able to get virtuosity bonuses? What is the max score for vault in bonus and non bonus? Does anyone know if the boys will have to declare before meets which they are doing, or if they are having an off day in warmups will they ve able to decide to do "no bonus" then? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the logistics of this...

The rules doc seems to indicate that yes, both divisions will be eligible for Virtuosity and Stick bonus, as the only section explicitly marked "Division 1 only" is the Specified Bonuses (skills). So Div 2 (No Bonus) will be a max score of 10.o (9.5 SV + .3 VB + .2 SB).

As for combined sessions messing up judging, I guess theoretically judging should be the same, right? I mean the same scoring rules and deductions apply to the base routines, whether or not Specified Bonus skills are added, right? Even for the last quad a judge never knew (unless he paid attention to warm up) if an athlete was going to perform any/all bonuses, so had to be prepared to both note the bonuses as well as score both the base routine and bonuses, so not sure what is really different now about that?

Unless the idea is to be a bit 'gentler' in practice with scoring on the Div II guys (taking minimum rather than max deductions, etc), but the documentation doesn't read that way. Maybe I'm missing something?

I can see awards being crazy, though, if sessions aren't broken up between divisions. Team awards?? And if sessions ARE broken up, gyms may have to double the sessions they attend - yikes - and/or have to separate out that 1 or 2 athletes that is either behind or ahead of the rest of the team.... Will definitely be interesting to see what both smaller and larger meets do!

 

[2G1B]

Sorry for all of my phone type-os!

Yeah, I'm more thinking of the nightmare from the meet organization standpoint rather than judging. I sure hope that judging wouldn't be more gentle for then non-bonus group since I assume that technically both are eligible for regionals...

The gyms putting on the meets will need to know how many medals to order, so they will need to have information on how many kids will be in each division in time to handle awards. I do wonder if there will be two sets of team awards. Though, how many teams really have enough boys at levels 6 and 7 to field TWO teams at those levels?! So I'd guess that they all just go in for one team award.

 

[profmom]

Yes, awards could be a huge mess. That is a concern. With six events plus AA, it's already crazy long at some meets.

 

[l.c.o]

Yeah for my DS's gym, they currently have some total of 11 kids for L4 and L5 combined (2 boys are on bubble between the levels). Can't imagine the team awards scenario, or how tough it would be on coaches if they had separate meet times as they're spread thin enough...

As of now, only four kids seem like they're likely to do L5. Two will already have quite a few bonuses, and the other two... are working on them (including my DS). I'm curious how this will all go!

 

[samsmama]

Interesting... DS is at one of the larger gyms in our area and right now it's looking like his team for L6 is only 4 boys. Our coach hasn't said a word about the two divisions.

Our gym hosts one of the first meets of the season, so it should be interesting to see how this all plays out!

 

[Madden3]

What our coach has said is that (at our gym) boys who are repeating a level must do the bonus division, and those who are doing a level for the first time, they can do either bonus or not - presumably depending on how they are doing with bonuses. I assumed this was his rule, rather than some universal one, but do not really know. My boys are both repeating a level (unless older DS goes 8, still not clear) so we know they will be doing bonus division, which they are happy about. They have never competed with no bonuses.
He also said that at our gym anyway (? not sure if elsewhere as well) level 4s will only be allowed to compete bonus division. If a Level 4 has no bonuses, they do not compete. If most gyms do this, that should at least simplify the 4 meets. Which are going to be nuts enough with the age change meaning there will be lots of 5 year olds getting confused about shorts vs. pants, socks or no socks, not remembering to pull their stirrups on and trying to learn to pee while wearing a singlet.

 

[skschlag]

What our coach has said is that (at our gym) boys who are repeating a level must do the bonus division, and those who are doing a level for the first time, they can do either bonus or not - presumably depending on how they are doing with bonuses. I assumed this was his rule, rather than some universal one, but do not really know. My boys are both repeating a level (unless older DS goes 8, still not clear) so we know they will be doing bonus division, which they are happy about. They have never competed with no bonuses.
He also said that at our gym anyway (? not sure if elsewhere as well) level 4s will only be allowed to compete bonus division. If a Level 4 has no bonuses, they do not compete. If most gyms do this, that should at least simplify the 4 meets. Which are going to be nuts enough with the age change meaning there will be lots of 5 year olds getting confused about shorts vs. pants, socks or no socks, not remembering to pull their stirrups on and trying to learn to pee while wearing a singlet.

LOL. That is funny...some 6 year olds have trouble with that. But I am pretty sure 5 year olds are still not allowed to compete.

 

[2G1B]

LOL. That is funny...some 6 year olds have trouble with that. But I am pretty sure 5 year olds are still not allowed to compete.

I think that the clarification said 6 by the cut off, which would mean kids with late spring birthdays will be 5! Crazy.

 

[skschlag]

True..but they cannot compete until they are actually 6. So they would have to be 6 before states, or even a meet or 2 before that if the state requires qualifying for state.

 

[Madden3]

I was going by the understanding that the age change makes them "6" for the season if they are 6 years old as of May 31st 2017. The competitive season starts 9 months earlier, in November 2016. So won't there be kids who are not even 5 and a half competing at least in the early months of the season? (potentially) ? If I am wrong, I would be happy to know that.

 

[skschlag]

Clarification: Age for competition Level 4 and 5 interpretaton. Gymnast must turn chronologically 6 years old before he may compete Level 4. Competitive aged 7 year olds may compete Level 5

That is from the update.

 

[2G1B]

Clarification: Age for competition Level 4 and 5 interpretaton. Gymnast must turn chronologically 6 years old before he may compete Level 4. Competitive aged 7 year olds may compete Level 5

That is from the update.

Ah. I just reread, you are right. One more reason I don't like this age cut off. So, for a kid with a late spring bday, they can't compete until they are considered 7 by the rules.

(I'm fine with them not

 

[Madden3]

Ok, I do not quite understand that but if this means a child must actually be 6 before they can compete, that is good news- for harried coaches in particular, and the sport in general. Wrecked my joke though.

 

[2G1B]

My edit got cut off . Im fine with kids who are indeed 5 but being able to compete yet; but this group if kids is getting screwed in the age thing. They now can't compete when USAG considers them 6; but on the other end, they can't do level 8 when they are 13 because USAG considers them 14 then.

 

[skschlag]

Yes. they have to actually be 6 years old to compete. After that, the "competitive age" comes into play. Basically, no 5 year olds!