Men New routines/changes?

[skschlag]

IT was pretty stinkin' cute. They let the coach remove the top mat and let him go again. Pretty sure he still landed on his butt.

 

[curlymop]

I am glad to see the level 5 vault change, it did not teach good technique for moving up to the table. Odd they too away the level 4 flat back and put back that darn stretch jump though.

I am mixed about the pommel mushroom decision. Really think by level 6 they should be using both. For level 4 though, focusing in the mushroom circles does make sense, to me.

Yeah, I'm surprised they took away pommel at L6. When DS was a barely 6 year old L4, it was ridiculous. He could barely lift his leg over it. It would have been a much better use of time to work more on the circles. But he's gradually become better at pommel as he has grown. And some of the gymnasts at L5 were really good at it.

I don't know how the judges can distinguish between any of those lower compulsory vaults. They all look the same to me.

 

[Madden3]

The change I want to know more about is this base routine/bonus/no bonus thing. I do not get it. Anyone able to explain it?

 

[skschlag]

I do believe that there are 2 divisions. 1 division is if you have no bonuses at all. The other division is if you have any bonuses at all. In the no bonus division, it is just the basic routines, allowing kiddos to compete with maybe less time in the gym. The other division adds more opportunity for growth and challenge.

I would think you could start in one division and go to the other as you gain skills

 

[momto2js]

My raising level 6 will be pleased that all his mushroom work will pay off, he was afraid that the mushroom was going away and he would have to do them on the horse this year. Our clinic to learn about the changes is next weekend.

So they are going to have 2 "classes" of athletes? One for kids doing bonuses and one for the rest?? How does that work for a kid that has ONE strong event?? I'm not sure that doesn't just add a lot of work for everyone. Most of our meets are not big enough to divide the group again.

It will be interesting to see how it all works out.

 

[rosiekat]

That seems tough! I wonder if it will lead to training kids on bonuses, but not competing them in that category until they have every single one down. (Kind of like when they hold a kid back a level just to amass some high scores.) Reflecting on this past year, I think that actually would have held some of the middle-of-the pack kids from trying to stretch too much. As it was, they could try bonuses and with most of the bonuses, it didn't hurt you extra if you didn't make it. So some of those kids were more willing to just go for it, and mostly had pretty good success. It'll be a shame if kids feel like they can't try, just because only having one or two bonuses will pop them into a tougher bracket.

And it definitely wouldn't have worked at the meets we did this year (numberwise), but at L4 we just do local "minimeets" so the kids get the feel for competition. I'm sure the real meets were mostly plenty big enough.

 

[momto2js]

The other interesting thing is for level 5 and 6 what will happen with regional qualifications, will half of each allotment come from each division??

We also live in a really small state. I think last year there may have been 30 6's state wide. I don't know that seperate them more makes sense.

 

[gracyomalley]

I too don't understand how the bonus/no bonus thing will work...small state/region here. DS the younger frequently won events with only one bonus against boys with lots of them...middle of the road overall with a smattering of bonuses...he's an example of a kid who would need to be in the bonus group to grow gymnastically (or to be able to compete well in his strong events) - but I will say I can't imagine kids competing with literally NO bonuses in ANY events...unless its all about winning the no bonus division, so not competing any bonuses even if they have them? Seems very few kids would not have at least one event (often floor) where the bonuses were easy for them. Both my boys went into higher compulsory levels with certain events MUCH easier for them than others - maybe this isn't the norm in bigger, more competitive regions, and I supose there must be a need for this division somewhere, but here a really clean gymnast with only a few bonuses can still medal here and there...

 

[Sasha]

a really clean gymnast with only a few bonuses can still medal here and there...

Still waiting with everyone else on the details, but I guess I see it as Div II (Bonus Division) is just the same as we have had the past 4 years. So all the questions about "What about a kid with 1 strong event, or just a few bonuses" aren't any different than what we have had. Clean execution with a few bonuses will surely still outscore poorer execution on many bonuses. I don't see why that would change. Nothing really new here.

I look at the addition of Div I (No bonus) as just that - an addition of another option, potentially great for kids who are in the first year of a level, or the slower-steady learners, or the younger ones, late-starters, really anyone who isn't likely to have all the clean basics for a level quite yet and doesn't want to get trounced against kids doing their 2nd year or who are in a higher-hours program, etc. A chance for kids who might otherwise not be in medal contention to feel more successful, and be rewarded for clean basics. I've seen plenty of boys who end up middle/low in the pack and rarely/never take home a medal feel discouraged and quit. Perhaps DivI will help here, too. We're in a power area where there are often 50-60 8 year old L5's, for example. Could totally have 2 award divisions there.

So Div II sounds like just the same as we have had, and Div I is another option that could be beneficial for different kinds of circumstances. Remains to be seen how coaches will actually use this though, and for smaller areas, it does raise the question of enough to 'fill' the level. Anxious to hear more about the details of how it will all work, too!

 

[skschlag]

I think Division 2 could be good for those rec kiddos that want to compete but can't do as many hours. So they might go 1-2 days a week, and compete, where the other division might go more.

 

[Sasha]

I think Division 2 could be good for those rec kiddos that want to compete but can't do as many hours. So they might go 1-2 days a week, and compete, where the other division might go more.

Good point! I could totally see that in our area. And I'm noticing I swapped the labels for Div 1/2 in my post.

From what everyone is saying...
Div I is the Bonus Division (same as what we have now)
Div II is the No-Bonus Division (the new thing)

 

[SMC]

The new Junior Development Optional Division is a separate division along side JO and JE. They can advance to regionals (within their division) but not nationals. I might be incorrect, but I think the Junior development division is only for levels 8-10 as an option to keep kids in the program longer.

 

[SMC]

The new Junior Development Optional Division is a separate division along side JO and JE. They can advance to regionals (within their division) but not nationals. I might be incorrect, but I think the Junior development division is only for levels 8-10 as an option to keep kids in the program longer.

Oops rereading earlier comments- there is a division 1 and 2 for Compulsories as well.

 

[Madden3]

Ok, so just to clarify, in compulsories, Division one is open to any kid who has even one bonus on one event? And Division 2 means no bonuses competed at all? Because the second hand info I just got was that div one kids have to have all the bonuses on every event- which does not make sense to me.

 

[gracyomalley]

I do see how this would be helpful in keeping boys in gym in larger states/regions....as would the JD division for optionals....my guess is for our area the need isn't there, except perhaps L4-6....there is already a great deal of leeway for upper levels due to the small number of kids.

Judging from how hard its been for my older boy to master new L8-10 skills with less than 16-20 hours of training a week (due to his trying to do too many other things with high school, community college courses and another serious pursuit, not the gym not offering them) I wonder how the JD division will pan out...its my mommy opinion that DSs multiple overuse injuries this year have been largely a product of inconsistent attendance...but I certainly could be wrong.

 

[lilmisssunshine]

Is there a downloadable handbook with the routines like there use to be? Or is this all hush-hush until each coach goes to some meeting? I know my son's coach has it all "on his phone" but I'd love to be able to look at it myself to learn the terms.

 

[skschlag]

They all have to purchase the materials, so it will be up to your coach to get info to you

 

[ZJsMom]

The new Junior Development Optional Division is a separate division along side JO and JE. They can advance to regionals (within their division) but not nationals. I might be incorrect, but I think the Junior development division is only for levels 8-10 as an option to keep kids in the program longer.

Gosh. There are so few guys in 8-10, yet USAG keeps dividing them into more an more subdivisions. I don't get it.

 

[rosiekat]

Gosh. There are so few guys in 8-10, yet USAG keeps dividing them into more an more subdivisions. I don't get it.

I know! They should make a division for each kid, and then everyone can be first!

 

[gracyomalley]

Well I guess by forcing everyone 16 plus and up into Level 10 OR Level 7 USAG has potentially grown L10 quite a bit this year...if they don't all quit due to now wanting to be embarassed....but still with 2 age groups and 3 divisions there's room in our state for some kids to be the only one in their group...

I don't really understand JD yet, or how it might be a positive thing...seems to me taking the age restrictions away would have been more supportive of older boys - that way a boy who started late could still excell and progress without dropping to a lower comp. level...esp since we're not talking about 25 year old L8s, we are talking about sophomores in high school/level 8-9....nothing to feel "behind" about there, but this makes it seem so.

And these are boys - if they've made it this far I can't imagine tons of them thinking "oh, great! I'd love to drop to the "easy" gymnastics group so I can win some medals, when I'm almost at L10 due to all my hard work...." Not to be arguementative, but teenage boys are more "all or nothing" in general...good coaches will make this work I'm sure - and likely it will be positive in the long run.

It will be interesting to see what happens with all this hullabaloo...right now DS and his coach are just trying to find 2 extra skills in each event to add to his summer plan...