Parents New scoring woes

[dumbdad]

(MAG lvl 4 parent, not sure how scoring changed across the higher MAG levels or WAG, so this may only apply to some. Also, I am by no means well educated and any misconceptions I have should be corrected.)

What is the general consensus on the new scoring? We just had our first meet and I didn't realize just how much it would affect my son's results. He is very strong and last year in lvl 3 did all of the bonus / virtuosity elements meaning top score was 12.0 (outside of vault). Fast forward to this year, no virtuosity and bonus elements chopped down to .1 completely destroyed any advantage he had. Last year missing a stick meant he was probably down to 11.3 top score, which was still higher than a lower skilled athlete not attempting bonus elements. This year, missing a stick could mean you lose out to an athlete that doesn't attempt a single bonus even if you perform the rest of your routine perfectly.

First off, what is the incentive to even attempt a bonus element? Unless you are performing it perfectly >80% of the time it is a liability, and the scoring benefit is >4x lower than last year if completed perfectly. Is it really a good thing to remove the risk/reward element and replace it with pure risk? Last year we were constantly making determinations before a comp about which bonuses to try even though they weren't automatic. It was so fun to see him nail an element in comp that was a true challenge. Now this year, why would we ever even try? Is this a good attitude to promote?

Playing devil's advocate, I understand that devaluing bonus elements forces young athletes to focus on fundamentals over more advanced elements. But honestly this just kills the joy. Any athlete can "luck" into a stick on every event. You can't "luck" into a muscle up on rings. I completely understand that the perspective is probably the reverse for parents of boys who physically cannot attempt bonus elements, whose boys are now suddenly able to compete.

Not here strictly to complain, I need some advice. Do you tell your kid to stop working towards bonus elements and mindlessly drill fundamentals to win competitions? Or do you tell him to keep trying the bonuses and not worry about the medals?

 

[raenndrops]

In most of WAG Xcel (except Sapphire), there is NO BONUS. So you have girls doing minimum requirement routines that outscore girls doing the highest difficulty allowed because the focus is on execution.
It sounds like MAG wants to shift the focus to execution too, at least for this quad.

What you tell your kid depends on what motivates him. If he wants the medals, tell him to do only what he can stick or stick to the basics in competition. He can still work the upgrades in practice, and only compete them when they are ready or when required.

Good luck.

 

[BayAreaGymMom]

I also have a son in MAG level 4. I don’t try to figure out whether the bonuses are worth it or not for my kid. I think that’s a decision that’s best left to his coaches.

 

[dumbdad]

I also have a son in MAG level 4. I don’t try to figure out whether the bonuses are worth it or not for my kid. I think that’s a decision that’s best left to his coaches.

I get this, ideally the coaches will make this call and properly focus the training. I my experience, it doesn't always translate. For an example, in lvl 3 one of the bonuses in floor was the press handstand. I did my diligence and researched the scoring and asked my son why he wasn't doing that element in his routine. He was apparently working on it but was having trouble developing this element inside the gym. We did specific things at home to develop that element and when he was able to do it in the gym his coach put it into his routine. Had I left it up to the coaching he never would have developed the element in time for the competitions. I don't know if this example is really showing a deficiency in the coaching but I suspect this is a common occurrence for kids that only do the group training without a 1:1 personal session to specifically focus on individual goals.

My advice for other gym dads is to follow your approach and not learn the scoring. I am able to help my kid score better because I made the effort to learn the code of points, but it hasn't made things more enjoyable for me as a parent, it has made me more hyper focused on score which can be insanely frustrating. That being said, when my son nailed the press handstand at the State meet I couldn't have been more proud.

 

[dumbdad]

In most of WAG Xcel (except Sapphire), there is NO BONUS. So you have girls doing minimum requirement routines that outscore girls doing the highest difficulty allowed because the focus is on execution.

Wow I didn't realize. What is the reaction from a girl that loses to the "weaker" gymnast? Does it refocus execution or is it demoralizing?

 

[NutterButter]

Wow I didn't realize. What is the reaction from a girl that loses to the "weaker" gymnast? Does it refocus execution or is it demoralizing?

Looking at it from the vantage point of 'losing to the weaker gymnast' is usually not accurate. In my experience, coaches generally have the gymnast compete the strongest/highest scoring routine that is possible for them. Many of these 'more advanced' gymnasts who are 'losing' would still get deductions when competing the same routine as the 'weaker' one and still 'lose'.

 

[dumbdad]

Looking at it from the vantage point of 'losing to the weaker gymnast' is usually not accurate. In my experience, coaches generally have the gymnast compete the strongest/highest scoring routine that is possible for them. Many of these 'more advanced' gymnasts who are 'losing' would still get deductions when competing the same routine as the 'weaker' one and still 'lose'.

Do you really think so? If I have finite gym time and I am practicing an advanced routine vs a basic routine, I would think the basic routine gymnast is only getting less deductions because they were able to get more reps on the basic elements vs the advanced gymnast spreading their time out over more elements, and probably spending disproportionate time on the advanced elements. (not to mention the advanced elements put you at a significantly more likely position to take deductions on the basic elements due to transitions and fatigue.) You could absolutely be correct it just doesn't seem quite logical to me. This is actually at the heart of my question; do I have my son focus his energy perfecting basic routines or spreading that finite energy across advanced elements that won't lead to higher scoring?

 

[raenndrops]

Wow I didn't realize. What is the reaction from a girl that loses to the "weaker" gymnast? Does it refocus execution or is it demoralizing?

In our experience, it depends on the girl (and the coach or gym philosophy).
Some will work on perfecting their skills and keep them in ... only taking them out if they still aren't perfect when it is time for their State Meet or higher. This is more often because of coach or gym.
Other girls will work the skills in practice and make a game-time decision based on how warm-ups go at the meet. This one is more likely a "group" choice with the gymnast and coach deciding together ... or a gymnast may make the decision on her own.
The rest of the girls will rework their routines to simplify and perfect them because they are all about the medals.

My girls have always been able to make their own decisions. I do know that the meet where my 10-year-old YG beat a 16-year-old who did a more difficult bar routine than necessary, the older girl was fine with it. However, the next meet, she did replace a couple of the harder skills wiht easier ones.

 

[Dahlialover]

Last year USAG MAG compulsory routines (excluding vault) were scored out of a maximum 11.5. This year the maximum score is a 10. Bonus skills are only worth 0.3, however, the deduction for falls has been reduced from 1.0 to 0.5 and the deduction for a large error has been reduced from 0.5 to 0.3. This means that, although the reward for completing bonus skills is decreased, so are the risks.

 

[skschlag]

I am a parent that also learned the CoP each quad. I like knowing what is happening. However, I did learn over time that it was great to know so I could have some kind of intelligent conversation with my son, but really tried to leave gym at gym. That is hard. I knew the code of points, but I did not know the development and progression of how the skills are learned. That is his coach.

The lower levels are for developing the baseline that is needed to continue to progress. The benefit of working on higher level skills is to be ready to progress to the next level with some sort of confidence and success.

Just for a little story time, my son was an OK compulsary gymnast. At L8, he was dead last in our state. Last. At level 9, first year, he was injured and only made regionals due to a petition.

2nd year of L9, he made nationals and placed 10th all around. L10, he made nationals every year (except covid) and generally placed top 10. He was pommel horse champion his senior year, and is now a pommel horse specialist in college.

Compulsary years are for learning and developing the building blocks to learn the big skills later. This will allow him to excel as an optional gymnast.

Good luck!!