Parents Pre team help . . . Coach and Parent input appreciated

[Deleted member D3987]

maybe my mistaken view of this thing is because i don't get the "5 year old pre-team" thing.

5 year old's are 5 year old's and should be treated as such. in our program they are perfecting things like cartwheels, round off's and back handsprings. basic swings, front and back hips and cast handstands on bars. and all the stuff they learn on beam and floor.

there is no talk about "pre-team". there is no talk about "competing". there is no talk about anything remotely near any of those words. it's an instructional class, they're pretty good, they work hard, i have them climb the rope lots AND they have fun.

my interpretation of what i read was "5 year old pre-team" and then gets "kicked out". when our 5 year old's act up we send them to rope or trampoline. it's what they enjoy best. but i have the staff to do that. i realize everyone does not. but we don't kick 5 year old's out of gym. that's just too foreign to me.

glad that everything worked out for you.

 

[bogwoppit]

By the way when I say ratbag I mean that with love. She is now 15 and a total a total star in my eyes. She was strong willed and defiant, now she is independent, funny and loving life.

She remained in the gym for 7 more years and retained her quirky personality, but she also knew that gym was fun with hard work and that she needed to do what the other kids did in order to be a part of the team.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

By the way when I say ratbag I mean that with love. She is now 15 and a total a total star in my eyes. She was strong willed and defiant, now she is independent, funny and loving life.

She remained in the gym for 7 more years and retained her quirky personality, but she also knew that gym was fun with hard work and that she needed to do what the other kids did in order to be a part of the team.

i knew what you meant.

 

[Amusibus]

MellowYellow gave excellent advice. That approach has worked for our family. The "just take her out til she matures" thing kind of rubs me the wrong way, especially since gym is the only environment in which this happens. It sounds like everyone involved is trying to make things work out. Bog, I do not understand your comment about "fuzzy" parenting. It sounds to me like this mommy is doing an excellent job with her child.

 

[GherkinMama]

Onebusymama - Not rude at all! I value every opinion I have read on this thread. After all I did ask for them in the first place. .

I like to look at problems (in all arenas and spheres of influence in my life) from all angles. Put myself in others' place and try to see from their point of view. Being a parent is hard, we all know that. Being a parent of a child in sports is tricky,we all know that too. So I very much appreciate all the information I have learned here.

To all the coaches who have responded, I want to day a special thank you to you for your candor and insight. It helps a great deal to see this from a coaches point of view. I assure you that it does. Not go unnoticed or unchecked.

Dunno- perhaps it is just our gyms definition of pre-team, but what you described is exactly what they are doing, almost to a t. They are not in any levels per se, I don't expect that half of them will even compete for at least 2 years. Our gym does not compete until level 3 I believe. As I understand it, this pre-team was designed to have the girls all learn and grow as a bunch, together. Is this not what all pre teams are? Please enlighten me. Maybe the term is used differently in different gyms?

 

[onebusymama]

I have a question. Did the coach KICK her out of the gym or did the coach bring her to you b/c she was throwing a fit? B/c that is a big difference. I have seen the HC tell an Elite or pre elite/ LVL 10 kid to leave practice for whatever reason, but then again she was about 16 years old. I think it's completely acceptable for a coach to send the child out to their parent if they are being very disruptive to the class. And I wouldn't consider that to be public humiliation. Although I would be humiliated that my DD acted in such a way.

 

[GherkinMama]

I like the term, Ratbag...with love! I literally laughed out loud with that one.

 

[bogwoppit]

Bog, I do not understand your comment about "fuzzy" parenting.

"......boundaries, discipline and consistency are key tools in parenting. Fuzzy round the edges parenting gets you fuzzy round the edge kids."

That is what I said. I think it is clear that I mean fuzzy parenting is parenting that lacks those things. Nothing more.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Onebusymama - Not rude at all! I value every opinion I have read on this thread. After all I did ask for them in the first place. .

I like to look at problems (in all arenas and spheres of influence in my life) from all angles. Put myself in others' place and try to see from their point of view. Being a parent is hard, we all know that. Being a parent of a child in sports is tricky,we all know that too. So I very much appreciate all the information I have learned here.

To all the coaches who have responded, I want to day a special thank you to you for your candor and insight. It helps a great deal to see this from a coaches point of view. I assure you that it does. Not go unnoticed or unchecked.

Dunno- perhaps it is just our gyms definition of pre-team, but what you described is exactly what they are doing, almost to a t. They are not in any levels per se, I don't expect that half of them will even compete for at least 2 years. Our gym does not compete until level 3 I believe. As I understand it, this pre-team was designed to have the girls all learn and grow as a bunch, together. Is this not what all pre teams are? Please enlighten me. Maybe the term is used differently in different gyms?

maybe how they treat them is different because they think they are all "serious" and a bag o chips and treat the 5 year old's like they're going to be elite gymnasts. i don't know cause i'm not there and you understand that. i just can't comprehend "kicking a 5 year old out of practice".

 

[cbifoja]

Please don't see it as a negative thing if your little one needs a little more time before heading toward team. Mine was moved from pre-team to L3 at an older age than your daughter (6 years old). She was there a week and it was obvious that it just wasn't working out. She went back to pre-team for about another 6 months before the coach moved her up to L3 again.

It has NOT affected her progress at all. She just completed her 3rd season of competition where she competed L7 as a 9YO. She skipped a level, tested out of a level, and then did 2 levels in one year. And while I hope she gets to repeat L7 as a 10YO, her coach still talks about moving her to L8.

So not being ready at age 5 for team should not worry you. Mine was immature for her age (still is) and just needed a little extra time. If that's what your kiddo needs, then it won't hold back her progress.

 

[Sasha]

To the OP:

It sounds like you have made your skepticism of readiness for pre-team apparent to the coach from the beginning - good for you for being realistic about all the factors of 'readiness' - as well as offered to hold her back if it's not yet a fit with this particular (significantly older) group. It also sounds like you're sensitive to any effects your young daughter's behavior could have on others, and you want to do the right thing for everyone. All spot-on from where I sit!

And it sounds like the coach honestly regrets 'snapping' (I've unfortunately been there and snapped at a friend's whiny, bratty-acting kid in a stressful situation - then immediately regretted it, felt like the devil, and our friendship has never really repaired.). It also sounds like your coach is still hopeful and encouraging your child to keep at this class, and willing to work with you to keep tabs on the situation.

So this sounds like the perfect place of understanding to now continue to test the waters. I hope it goes well! But if her behavior needs do become too much to reasonably expect a coach to manage, then I agree with others who say waiting a little while before re-joining preteam might very well be the perfect path for her to remove this un-needed stress, and you seem to be open and ready to do what is best for your DD's long-term gymming - awesome.

For perspective from another gym environment, we do have some 5 year olds on our pre-team, but they (smartly) separate into groups: age 5-6, and age 7+. I also do know that our gym doesn't tolerate the least bit of whining or fussing at the pre-team level. Coaches are kind and sensitive if a kid is having a random bad day and is a little unfocused, and a little age-appropriate goofiness is calmly-but-firmly re-directed, but pouting, whining, refusing skills, arguing with team-mates, and definitely melt-down behavior would be immediate concern that the child is probably not ready/right for the class at this time, and that the child would be better (happier!) in a less-structured class or different pace, group, etc. In our gym, it's clear that only the more mature kids who have shown both talent and early work ethic are selected. Others can stay in rec and mature, then are happily invited when more ready to deal socially and emotionally.

Your specific gym and coach will have their own approach, boundaries, and tolerance for acceptable conduct. So as long as you reach understanding together of what that is, and you as the parent continually assess your own child's readiness and HAPPINESS as objectively as possible, you are doing everything right imo.

 

[GherkinMama]

CBIF - Thank you for that, truly. But her progress in gymnastics is the least of my concern about all of this. When she gets it, she'll get it. I have no delusions whatsoever there. I promise you that I don't want to force her to learn faster, or be the best all the time. And I don't think that stepping back is a bad thing. I feel that we are on the right path, I am letting her move forward, for now, with her team. If her behavior again becomes feisty and frustrated, I will definitely step her back and she can try again when she is more ready to handle it. I have never had unrealistic ( as far as I know and a few random daydreams) expectations of this sport. a good friend of mine was a competitive gymnast throughout her tween years to college and she has been very honest with me about what it was like for her and how difficult the sport can be.

Sasha- Thank you so much for your post!

 

[gymdog]

maybe how they treat them is different because they think they are all "serious" and a bag o chips and treat the 5 year old's like they're going to be elite gymnasts. i don't know cause i'm not there and you understand that. i just can't comprehend "kicking a 5 year old out of practice".

You've never had a child who needed to be removed from class or practice? I don't kick anyone out but I have removed children when their behavior (tantrums) becomes distracting and unsafe. I don't think the coach should have said what she did (not necessary to personally vent) - I just say "come back when you're ready!"

If you say you send them to rope, that is removal.

That said I have a 4-6 year old developmental group and no one has exhibited behavior that warrants removal the entire year, based on the selection process. But classes, yes. And I could just say "I don't accept kids with autism, ADHD, etc to the class." But that's not true. We accept them to the extent that they can safely participate and if their behavior necessitates removal then they come back until they're ready.

Also as far as the development group, it is 4-6, mostly 5. Not taught for 7-8 year olds. And a pullover would be a requirement so almost having a pullover at 5 would be in preschool classes here, and totally normal even for a very talented kid. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying I've heard of gyms that think the way to developing great gymnasts is just to insert them in higher levels younger and younger. Oftentimes that backfires, causes fears, anxiety, lowered confidence, injuries. So that is why I would advise the mom to be careful as she noted the other kids are much older.

Furthermore while I don't disagree with figuring out the cause behind behavior, neutral removal is often very effective and I have a hard time believing that it wouldn't be used in any program involving kids with special behavioral challenges. I don't agree with the use of seclusion rooms and the like (getting off topic for this thread) but the 123 magic type approach can be very effective when used consistently. The problem in this instance was the removal wasn't neutral and the child was not given the chance to correct the behavior and apply the correct social skills. Once a child becomes hysterical all you can do is wait it out.

 

[onebusymama]

I have a question. Did the coach KICK her out of the gym or did the coach bring her to you b/c she was throwing a fit? B/c that is a big difference. I have seen the HC tell an Elite or pre elite/ LVL 10 kid to leave practice for whatever reason, but then again she was about 16 years old. I think it's completely acceptable for a coach to send the child out to their parent if they are being very disruptive to the class. And I wouldn't consider that to be public humiliation. Although I would be humiliated that my DD acted in such a way.

EXCACTLY gymdog. That is why I posted this ^^^^^

 

[GherkinMama]

Onebusymama... she came into the waiting room, called me into the gym, then said what she said (original post). I took my child by the hand and went back into to the waiting room. So did she just send her out on her own? No. But the verbiage and how she went about it was the reason I used the phrase kicked her out. I agreed with and still agree with her choice to remove my child from the practice session for being disruptive, what I had the biggest issue with wad how it happened. She has since apologized and I am fairly certain she will not ever do that again. To any child.

 

[GherkinMama]

Sorry that seemed rushed. I was on my phone with that last one.

 

[onebusymama]

Sorry that seemed rushed. I was on my phone with that last one.

I don't mean to sound so harsh. I tend to be a bit more lenient on coaches. I feel (esp. in this sport) that coaches don't make enough money to deal with all they have to deal with. So good coaches are hard to keep. Most gymnastics coaches of rec classes (what I see) are young college age making around minimum wage. But Team coaches tend to be more knowledgable & have more experience with kids. So I'm not sure what type of coach teaches your DD pre team

 

[gymdog]

Onebusymama... she came into the waiting room, called me into the gym, then said what she said (original post). I took my child by the hand and went back into to the waiting room. So did she just send her out on her own? No. But the verbiage and how she went about it was the reason I used the phrase kicked her out. I agreed with and still agree with her choice to remove my child from the practice session for being disruptive, what I had the biggest issue with wad how it happened. She has since apologized and I am fairly certain she will not ever do that again. To any child.

Well, and I want to make it clear that I don't think in this instance removal was used in the right way. Again, I always tell the child to decide when they're ready to (specific correct behavior). Of course in the example of avoidance this doesn't work so you have to use your own judgement. That said if a child seemed very tearful or adamant they didn't want to do something at 5, I would definitely not make them do it in 98% of cases. There might be a few cases where it's particularly easy and the child has done it a lot before and I think they're just testing me, but generally I would allow them to watch. The child has to feel control and safety in order to control their emotions.

Also I don't really know a lot about how the coach usually manages the class. Most young children need firm boundaries and predictable routines and consequences to succeed (I.e. They feel safe and in control because they know and understand the environment). If this is not in place because most of the girls are older, again that can cause a lot of issues.

My 4-6 year old development does pretty much the same order, same things every time. And they don't get bored, they thrive. We play little games and so forth. 6-7 and up is team and much more fast paced with the introduction of new drills and conditioning every two weeks or so. Plus much more complex routines and warmups, much longer practices. While 6 is young for that program they can often do it if they been in gymnastics long enough and a fast learner. 5 would be very unusual and turning 6 soon. That's why I said waiting might be best IF this continues, because she will be much more flexible and rational as time goes on.