Parents Pre team help . . . Coach and Parent input appreciated

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I have not yet read the whole thread, but I have several thoughts after reading your first post:

First, it sounds to me like your DD is not ready for that particular workout group. Maybe the coach is being to harsh, maybe it's too intense for her at her age, maybe she doesn't work well with the style of that particular coach, maybe she doesn't get along with other girls in that workout group or maybe it's any number of other things. Perhaps the coach overestimated her readiness to be pushed. But at any rate, I would probably look for a way to pull her out of that group, and perhaps put her in something less intense until she matures a bit.

I do not believe that public shaming is ever an appropriate response to a kid misbehaving. However, when you have a group of 5-8 year olds to try to train and one of them is disrupting workout, you can't really take the time to think through all the possible options of how you might deal with it; you have to deal with it then and there and get practice moving again. So while I don't think the coach handled it as well as he/she could have, I'd say it's a forgivable mistake.

 

[sce]

I'm glad you are talking to the coach. I would want a more clear explanation of this statement: "She's in Pre-team and shes the only one who doesn't get it, and can't get along with the other kids."

Just as another thread pointed out, these are little kids. I think some coaches forget that skill does not equal maturity. (no flaming from the coaches here, I'm sure you guys get it.)

What doesn't she get? (For example: Is it the coaches explanations or directions? She may not have the vocabulary, which would be frustrating for her and the coach.) What is she doing that shows her not getting along with the other kids. Specifics form the coach would be very helpful. Also, if all the kids are older how do they expect her to "get along" with them?

Throwing out ideas before I've heard the specifics I asked about: Maybe she needs a buddy to help her navigate the class for while. Maybe she does need a snack mid-class. Could the coaches tone of voice be an issue? We had a coach that would get very frustrated when a kid did not apply a correction. The kids often ended up in tears as the coach got more frustrated. If it happens over and over maybe the coach needs to approach the situation differently,a s the kids won't just get it.

An example of lack of specificity. My dd was told by a coach that she would move up when she could be less silly. She had no idea what to do with that. What was she doing that was silly? She was 8yo and has a fun natured personality. Giving her specifics, ie when you are quiet while waiting in line, trying to make the changes the coach asks for etc, would have been far more helpful feedback to her.

 

[COz]

When they're young, the mix of ages does (in my experience) seem to make a big difference.
We had Miss 4 in a development class (pre-pre-team) with 6 year olds and a couple of 5 year olds. 7 I think in the group.
She worked her way up over about 6 weeks to the full 2 hours, once a week, from a 45 minute 4-5 year old class once a week. This was through her normal dinner time so the transition wasn't easy.
She could physically handle the class, I'd say could emotionally handle it too. Was better behaved than some of the other girls.

BUT, she did not develop any friendships with the other girls and it never felt great. It was good, but not great.
Although we were told she was skills wise ready to go up to the pre-team group, were also told that they had done that for young ones in the past and it hadn't worked out well.
We were told that the girls found it a big jump and tended to drop out altogether rather than go back to the previous classes.

We found a gym that had specific development classes for 3-4 and 4-5 year olds and suddenly found that having girls the same age a her meant that she bonded with them immediately. Suddenly, 2x2hrs at the same time of day was easy and she wasn't exhausted at the end, even though the training was harder.

Is there anything else that she likes doing that you could perhaps use to distract her for 6 months, or another gym to go to if you're worried that the coach is now biased against her?
It sounds very much like they didn't realise that they couldn't manage the age difference and probably treat her like she's much older, which is hard. It's hard for them to admit that they were wrong and they might not explicitly do it. They might misremember and feel like you asked to have her moved up early.
You may have to take it upon yourself to make the difficult decision and pull her from that class for a few months. Clearly it can't go on the way it is, the coach is frustrated, your child is unhappy and it's not fair other other children.

What a difficult situation. I hope you can work it out soon. At least you'll know more when they finally call you back.

 

[tooootsie]

My DD started a pre-team at 3 years old. But her team was with 4 and 5 year olds and only 1 day a week for 2 hours? I think it was a while ago. I think it might be the older kids. maybe her being with a younger group might help?

 

[gymdog]

Pull her out. She's not ready. I would either go back to the old class if she wasn't having problems there, or pull out of gymnastics all together. While some kids get testy or argumentative, a screaming tantrum for a five year old in any class would be age inappropriate behavior. I think it would be a huge mistake for the instructor to allow the child to continue to disrupt the class, as her primary job is to teach the other kids gymnastics. Highly disruptive behavior cannot be tolerated in this environment, it's distracting and unsafe. So, my only issue would be the phrasing, she should have just brought your daughter out.

If gymnastics is the only place this is happening, then I would assume the day is too long for her with the addition of gymnastics. Some kids need more down time than others, even of she is sleeping well. Next year try again - there is a big difference between 5 and 6.

 

[LJL07]

We had this dilemma too. I know what you mean about non-gymnast parents not getting it. We struggled with DD's behavior this past year (age 6), and non-gymnast parents could not understand why we didn't just quit gymnastics team if she had trouble focusing, acted silly, etc. But DD loves it and is good at it. It's just that she was an immature 6 yr old. We switched to a new gym, and it has gotten so much better. She just made 7, but even though she has great practices most of the time now, tonight was just not a good practice. She was exhausted from playing outside almost all day with a friend, eating junk food, was probably hungry, and she pouted and sulked her way through half of her practice. I do agree that there is a huge developmental difference between a 5 yr old and 8 yr olds or even the 6 yr olds. I hope you and the coach figure something out for her when you talk. Good luck!

 

[Natasha]

I agree it sounds like she is not ready for that group. If she can have fun in the other class, then do that, otherwise find another fun activity for a while and try again next year when she is older. Starting pre team at 5 or 6 or 7 is really not going to affect her long term progress in the sport.

 

[surfergirl]

You can have the best coach in the world teaching one of the best athletes in the world. But if the chemistry is not right between the coach and athlete, it is completely pointless. That said, I don't think the best coach in the world would handle the situation like that. However, you will encounter other difficult situations with your child in sports, and you need to find a way to keep moving forward without spending too much time focusing on the disappointments.

 

[GherkinMama]

I want to say a huge THANK YOU! To you all for your great and learned advice. Practice went AMAZING today. I will explain more about my talk with the coach and more tomorrow morning on the computer vs my phone.

 

[iwannacoach]

For what it's worth.....

She's just a kid and shouldn't have to be "figured out" for acting out while in a group with kids who've been walking twice the years she has. Doesn't it seem odd that the coach can't see that much. IMO the coach is a fool for drooling over her vast physical ability without noticing she's *only five years old* and should still be learning by playing.

It really is a matter of

Too much
Too young
Too fast
Too structured
Too many hours
Too bad....... because she quit when she was just about to blossom at age twelve because she got fed up with being required to act 3 years past her age. Really, could you be forced to adapt to such a degree, and then not look back and realize that well over half your life has been spent feeling like you constantly had to measure up to a standard that never considered your qualifications.

A success in gymnastics is more about a good fit and emotional health than it is about the illusion of ability. It's an illusion because the only thing many people see is the child's body type and how they pick up skills. Learning skills quickly and having the gymnastics body to die for won't help a kid become a gymnast. They have to "want it" and work in a comfortable environment that fits them. Some kids work great under pressure and feel they need that to be comfortable, and some kids not.

I think what has me leaning forward on this issue is the coach's wise and worldly assessment that she was ready. Are you kidding me???? Yeah, she was so ready that the coach feels it's fair to........ "The coach, marched her to the door, called me into the gym with a brusque attitude, then stated loudly that she was not going to put up with....."

Really????? The coach ought to send herself out for incompetence. Coach's mistake... coach's problem.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yikes! i've been doing this longer than most of you have been on the planet and we have NEVER kicked a 5 year old out of the gym. either the coach is an idiot or the other kids are pushing her around cause she's the youngest one. this isn't rocket science. gyms don't kick 5 year olds out of practice. in fact, the only reason that necessitates kicking out 5 year olds is because they won't LEAVE the gym when practice is over. that age loves gym so much they won't get out! capiche? YIKES!

 

[GherkinMama]

Good Morning!

First I want to say that I placed my trust in a great online community. I couldn't have imagined the wealth of help and advice that I received and I am so very grateful to you all. It was such a varied and detailed bunch of information that I think we have made the right decision based on our instincts as her parents and as more informed ones as well.

First and foremost. The coach had my phone number transposed on the message and was unable to call me back before class. At the time of practice I did not know this. So I took my daughter into the gym with a great deal of trepidation on my part. She however, was happy, greeted her teammates happily and was her usual self. Coach called them in and they began running and then during stretches, I saw her pull my daughter aside, the sat on the tramp and had, what seemed to me, a good conversation. Judging by body language alone, it was a good talk. Hugs followed. My daughter mixed back in with her team, practice moved on. I kept a close eye on her throughout practice, and did not notice any signs of impending meltdowns or frustrations. After her first water break, she came bombing out into the waiting room all glittering eyes and wide smiles saying that she almost got her pullover, and that she needed only a little help. She was so happy and excited! After class was over, The coach came over to me and I indicated a more private area of the waiting room to talk. The team had had a great practice overall and they were happily jabbering on and getting their shoes on. Coach apologized to me right away. She apologized for not getting ahold of me before class and for her treatment of me and my daughter. She said that it had been a tough practice for all the girls and the meltdown had been the final straw. As a human being, I GET IT. People can only take so much before they snap and sometimes the result is released on people we don't need to release it on. I said that I supported her decision to remove my daughter from class but not at all how she did it. She said that she was embarrassed by how she handled it and apologized again. I asked the coach what seemed to start it in the first place. She said she wasn't too sure. That she started pouting while they worked on the beam and then as they were finishing up their end of practice stretches she was arguing with other girls about what they were supposed to be doing and then she started melting down. I said that she gets hyper sensitive to bullyish behavior, and if these other girls were being bossy that that, coupled with her frustrations on the beam, could have been about all she could handle for the day and she had no choice but to release her frustration and anger. I said that we needed to work together if this is going to be a successful thing. I also said that should this pattern begin again...my daughter starting to sulk in the gym, or getting frustrated to the point that I could see it from the waiting room, that we would be moving her back to regular classes for 6 months or so. Coach said she didn't think that was necessary. But I said I do not want her to hate or resent her favorite activity because of this conflict. That it was silly to push her limits like that. She said she understood completely and that she would respect and support our decision, and welcome her back when the time was right.

All in all, I am content with this conversation. For now at least. I am going to watch her behavior and the behavior of the team as well as the coach. I am definitely going to ensure that she has a much more filling snack before class and carry an extra one just in case. Yes, she is 5. Yes, she is still a baby in a lot of peoples eyes. But we know our daughter better than anyone. Not all kids are the same and can be pigeonholed into one type or another and then treated accordingly. As parents we support her choices, if not now, then she will grow to believe that we don't trust her instincts, or that she cannot trust herself. Always stepping in and taking away her right to choose her paths is not something that we want to do, but we certainly will when it becomes necessary. We discussed the possibility that if she is getting that upset in practice that maybe the team environment isn't quite right yet. She got very upset at this, even though we kept it as a positive thing. She does not want to leave the team and go back to regular classes. She understands now, after much discussion, that it doesn't mean she will never go back to team.

So now, we wait and see.

MellowYellow - I thought that your post was simply brilliant and well timed, at least for me. You hit the nail square on the head. I see examples of the first one throughout the entire practice and not just by my daughter, but by her teammates as well. I am certainly going to take some notes and see if we can find her triggers, so that we can help her work through whatever it is that upsets her most...She doesn't like beam, wants to go to the pit, be chosen first etc etc. Thanks!!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I don't think anything is triggering anything. Sounds to me like she is not ready for pre team.,,,, So put her back to whatever class she was in and try again next year....

 

[bogwoppit]

I pulled my then 5 year old out of gymnastics for six months when she was acting just like your dd. She was a PITA for the coach who had 5 other kids to deal with. She begged to go back for months on end, her sister was competing at the same gym, after six months I let her return with a few conditions. She never caused the same problems again.

At 5 they can learn to conform to the demands of the groups, and coach, or they cannot. Some kids just are not ready for that at 5. The good news is that beginning pre-team at 5 is no indicator of future success.

 

[AV24]

Yay!! I'm so glad she had a great practice and that you feel better about the situation. You're right - we all get frustrated sometimes, and it is tough to admit when we've crossed the line. Kudos to the coach for being humble enough to apologize. It sounds like you guys are making a plan and handling things very well. Watching and waiting seems like a great idea, and I'm very happy that your DD would be welcomed back if you decide to take a break for a little bit. What a relief!

 

[GherkinMama]

I wish I could hug you MellowYellow! My husband and I are very much into finding the root of issues and triumphs alike and your input will prove invaluable to that end. We want to positively motivate her in all aspects of her life and understanding her why's and how's really help.

 

[onebusymama]

I don't think anything is triggering anything. Sounds to me like she is not ready for pre team.,,,, So put her back to whatever class she was in and try again next year....

I would have to agree completely. The coach is trying to teach other kids skills to prepare them for Team. It is completely unexceptable for a kid to behaive that way in class IMO. Just b/c she doesn't like beam, or doesn't like when other kids are too bossy is not an excuse to behaive that way. And I'm VERY sorry if I sound rude (that is not my intentions). I'm putting myself in the shoes of the other pre team moms and I wouldn't be happy with this kid behaiving that way when the others are doing what they should do and trying to learn. I would definitely consider moving her back to rec classes for 6 mo. She would enjoy them and still progress in her skills. Then put her back in when she is more mature to handle a more structured/ disciplined class. It just gets tougher as she moves up. You don't want to push too soon too fast. Once again, please don't take this as being rude or mean... just ones opinion. I hope everything will work out for her.

 

[AV24]

And for what it's worth, I really hesitated before writing my original post. That kind of stuff is not for everyone, but it has REALLY helped me with my youngest child's behavior at home. (I wish I knew about it when my older kids were toddlers!) In an exclusive team situation, they don't have to be patient and try to work with challenging behaviors. They can just ask you to leave. Public schools don't have that luxury, and when you have kids who are super-challenging, you have to find a way to manage or no one learns. The system I wrote about is complex and time-consuming if done in a large class with one teacher and a big group of kids, but it is easily modified for your own kids and/or a small team situation. That is why I wrote it, because I thought if I helped even one person now or in the future, then it's worth it. I didn't expect everyone on here to buy-in to the process. I probably wouldn't have a few years ago. But when a young child melts down, there IS a reason behind it. At school when we had non-verbal kids with autism who threw tantrums, we didn't just say, "Oh, well, he has autism. That's normal behavior for him." No. We played detective, figured out the problem, and prevented it from happening again - as much as possible. Young kids - verbal or not - don't have the emotional maturity to understand and then explain why they are misbehaving. If you ask them, they will almost always say, "I don't know." That's when you have to observe and make your own conclusions. And when it's YOUR kid, everything is different. If you know she can do it, and she really wants to do it, then you find a way to help her be successful, and you give her the tools to learn and grow. Love and Logic is another great program to use with kids...especially strong-willed kids. You give them two choices (both are acceptable choices for you), and you let them pick the choice they want. For example, "We are going to the beam now. Do you want to walk in line, or do you want to hold my hand?" Either way, you ARE going to the beam - the kid just gets to feel in charge of something in the process, so she doesn't focus completely on being mad about going to beam.
Whew! That's all. I didn't mean for this thread to turn into an early childhood course, but I write about what makes me passionate, I guess. GherkinMama - thanks for the kind feedback. I really appreciate it!

 

[iwannacoach]

The coach has been upgraded from incompetent and a fool to a status I'll ca "Yeah but." I was relieved to read about her apology, as it shows she can consider part of the larger picture. I still worry about your daughter and any child who loves the sport enough to stop playing and start working at such an age.

Surely you know your dd better than everyone else, but you likely don't know the inside and out of the sport the way dunno and I do. What we know is that the 6 months to a year it takes for her to mature will be a great advantage to her, as she will have nearly twice the mental and emotional ability to process and cope with what takes place in a gymnastics work group.

The advantage of maintaining momentum and feeding her fire by letting her continue on pre team will be cancelled out by a collective assortment of frustrations, confusions, and misunderstandings. Any "head start" advantage lost by waiting the next six months can be gained back in a 2-4 weeks when she's seven years old. More importantly..... it will happen through a process that uses hard work, a clear mind, and a sense of calm instead of the ups and downs that can come about from pressure and frustration.

"she is sweet and loving but she is also VERY hard on herself and gets easily frustrated when something that she is doing isn't right immediately."

 

[bogwoppit]

My youngest was a total ratbag, seriously. But frankly they have to learn to conform to society, not the other way around. So we put rules in place, easy simple to understand and she got it. She was that smart. Every now and then we would have to reassess the system and help her along further, but she always got it. We were the parents, we were the ones in control. She could decide to wear a blue dress or a red dress, but not when she got dressed, if you know what I mean..

I have raised many children besides my own, and learned early on that boundaries, discipline and consistency are key tools in parenting. Fuzzy round the edges parenting gets you fuzzy round the edge kids.

I also learned that kids are ready for new experiences at differing ages. Sometimes it is too much, so you slow things down, some kids are ready way early, so you forge ahead. School is one thing, but in sports like gymnastics where parents are paying for their kid to be coached it is really not fair to the group, or the coach, to expect special treatment.