WAG Qualifying Elite at the ranch and other thoughts

[motigymnasticsmom]

I think this thread is really cool. I love reading just about anything and everything and this thread is very interesting . I have just one more question, where do the girls stay and train once they get on National Team? Do they stay at their gym and go where they are assigned or do they stay and train with Marta and Bela at the farm? I'm just curious that's all.

 

[bogwoppit]

They train at their own gyms with their own coaches. They will go to the ranch in Texas to National Team training camps about once a month. They also will go to selection cmaps that are held before international meets

 

[Seeker]

Whew..... Okay then my questions.....

Why Marta? How did this system come to be? Why not Bela? Or Liukin? I'm having a hard time imagining Marta putting in an application at USAG. LOL

And is it smart of USAG to "put all of their eggs in one basket", if that is indeed what they've done? I mean, eventually Marta will retire. Who is at the helm then? Will there be a power struggle or is there a system to groom leaders as well as gymnasts?

Dunno said Marta isn't the only one. So who are the other "big players"?

I do understand, and even support the idea of allocating your resources to where they will be used the best so I'm not criticizing. From an outsider's perspective, it looks very "monarchy-ish" so it's nice to have an insider share their perspective to understand the system more.

Marta was clearly a great choice -- just look at our results since she took over.

Why Marta? She knows what she's doing and had a better relationship with the coaches than Bela. I'm pretty sure that the coaches at the time voted on that, but Dunno can correct me if that's wrong.

She stays because it's her passion and she's doing a great job if results are what you care about (I would think that's how USAG would evaluate things), but yes -- she will retire. Valeri is set to take that role over as far as I know and that transition/"passing of the reigns" has been taking place for a while now. Not sure when or if a planned retirement date is known, likely after 2016.

As far as Marta being nice or not nice, I'm sure that is a matter of opinion based on based on individual experiences with her, but anytime someone is telling you something you don't like, it's going to rub you the wrong way. She's not in the business of being nice -- she's in the business of putting the best athletes on the floor to represent the USA. And American's like to win. You know the old saying "Nice guys finish last"....it has some truth to it. I'm sure some of the disconnect may be cultural, but I just get the sense that she is very no nonsense, she knows what she's looking for and she knows when she sees it. And she knows when she doesn't. She's got a great track record, so it's hard to argue with that. But it is hard not to take it personally if you're rejected, but it is what it is.

 

[wallinbl]

I'm sure some of the disconnect may be cultural, but I just get the sense that she is very no nonsense, she knows what she's looking for and she knows when she sees it. And she knows when she doesn't. She's got a great track record, so it's hard to argue with that. But it is hard not to take it personally if you're rejected, but it is what it is.

DD used to be at a gym with "cold war" coaches and ownership. It takes some getting used to, as it is often more blunt than Americans can handle, but behind all that were people that really cared. You'd never see it as an outside observer (or even as a new parent to the gym), but they were mostly all bark, and really just teddy bears with a giant soft spot for the girls.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Marta was clearly a great choice -- just look at our results since she took over.

Why Marta? She knows what she's doing and had a better relationship with the coaches than Bela. I'm pretty sure that the coaches at the time voted on that, but Dunno can correct me if that's wrong.

She stays because it's her passion and she's doing a great job if results are what you care about (I would think that's how USAG would evaluate things), but yes -- she will retire. Valeri is set to take that role over as far as I know and that transition/"passing of the reigns" has been taking place for a while now. Not sure when or if a planned retirement date is known, likely after 2016.

As far as Marta being nice or not nice, I'm sure that is a matter of opinion based on based on individual experiences with her, but anytime someone is telling you something you don't like, it's going to rub you the wrong way. She's not in the business of being nice -- she's in the business of putting the best athletes on the floor to represent the USA. And American's like to win. You know the old saying "Nice guys finish last"....it has some truth to it. I'm sure some of the disconnect may be cultural, but I just get the sense that she is very no nonsense, she knows what she's looking for and she knows when she sees it. And she knows when she doesn't. She's got a great track record, so it's hard to argue with that. But it is hard not to take it personally if you're rejected, but it is what it is.

correct and close enough.

 

[ShesAMonkey]

Wow, this thread has really been interesting. I had no idea how much I didn't know about the Elite system.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

How would you classify Marvin Kimble? Or Marty Strech? Or do you consider JE separate enough from JO that you aren't counting JE as part of JO?

Just to pick on one guy, look at Yul Moldauer in Meetscoresonline. http://www.meetscoresonline.com/Athlete.MyScores/216113 National team member, competed Junior Elite at the event that combined JO/JE nationals. But he also competed plain vanilla L10 at some meets in 2013-14.

I'm confused!

marty is a level 10 / jr elite , at meets that have elite he is a jr elite, usually international assigned meets and a few venues here in the states, but most of his meets he is a 10 (plain and vanilla). that is what he told me today at gym..... they do have some rule differences as well... hope that helps

 

[profmom]

Yes, thank you both!

 

[3rd_time_around]

this is out of context. and YOU didn't hear Marta say anything. what you were told was 2nd party. and qualifying Hopes is the equivalent of making level 8 regionals. let's not over glamorize the level, please. and if anybody is down there wasting everyone's time, it is her responsibility to "dis-invite" them. the core of our semi-centralized system ARE the athletes. it's her job to select those very best who will represent the USA in competitions. this level of gymnastics IS NOT JO.

you have to know Marta to understand her. she has done an awesome job in her position. and no one can argue her success at this helm. ask the rest of the world.

What do you mean this is out of context? Why are you being antagonistic? I am very close to someone who goes to the camp every month. This girl that you are now dismissing by saying HOPES is like level 8, was a level 10 who wasn't old enough to be jr elite yet. She is very, very good. And she committed to a Div I school right after 8th grade, she still wins most meets, most events, state, regionals, Nationals, and she still has 3 years before she graduates. I don't make things up, and I don't like it when you imply that I do.

 

[3rd_time_around]

All I was saying is that Marta isn't all sweetness and niceness. I know insider stuff, too., and I know better than to repeat it. She has done a great job, I would never say otherwise.

 

[gymyahoo]

Here's another dumb question…Why are there are level 8,9,10s at the verification or elite qualifiers, I thought Elite was above level 10? So how would a level 8 girl qualify if she hasn't done level 9 or 10 yet?

Some girls qualify into HOPES while others make into Elite.

 

[BachFlyer]

and qualifying Hopes is the equivalent of making level 8 regionals. let's not over glamorize the level, please.

This is an interesting statement to me as an "outsider". I know you're in the know, but it makes me wonder what you mean because this is not jiving with my experience or understanding. My DD was going to try to qualify last year as a 12yo L9 with 37+ (well, we thought she might) and then she got injured. This year as a 13yo who competed L10 part of the season, I guess her coaches don't think she has what it takes to do Hopes. Basically they said she just isn't ready, which is fine with me, but she is definitely beyond qualifying L8 regionals. When she made the Tops team as a 10yo, some of those skills were already L8 and higher.

I get that not everyone that qualifies Hopes is cut out for the National Team, for sure! But, you do make me really curious about the inherent value in even bothering with Hopes at all, because your comment seems to imply that there isn't much value or skill required. So why did USAG create it/what is the intention and why do most of the kids vying for elite do it? I can't imagine that Marta and crew would waste time and $ creating a program without some reason or goal in mind...Unless, it it is looked at as basically a method of screening OUT the kids who are good, but not quite good enough? Again, I trust ya, and really curious about your opinion on Hopes in particular.

 

[wallinbl]

I took his comment to be a statistical comment (percentage of qualifiers), not a skill level comment.

 

[gasrgoose]

I took his comment to be a statistical comment (percentage of qualifiers), not a skill level comment.

I read it this way also but disagree with the analogy.

 

[BachFlyer]

^^ oh, ok, I read it much differently, obviously!^^

But even still, it seems like generally speaking, qualifying Hopes means a lot to the kids (or, the parents of said kids) that are trying to qualify, but it doesn't really mean much in the Grand Scheme of Eliteyness. My DD is too old at this point to bother thinking elite thoughts anyway, but because we toyed with the possibility, the whole process intrigues me. We considered Hopes thinking that it was a way to knock on the door, so to speak. It seems that Tops/Hopes programs were created by USAG to encourage coaches and kids that aren't from the powerhouse gyms to make a go of it. But standing where we are now, I do think that your gym/coach must be "in" with USAG, no matter what your kid wants or could theoretically accomplish.

So.. going back to Bog's original question of "why qualify elite in the first place?" I am still curious about the inherent value of Hopes in the process, from the perspective of the Insiders

 

[profmom]

Ah, the age-old question: does pedigree (prestige of program) give an advantage beyond that conferred by the presumably better knowledge of and capacity to train the necessary skills to the sufficient high quality? Or is it possible for lesser known programs with a really awesome kid to get a foot in the door if they can figure out how to get her to an equivalent level as the girls from the powerhouses?

 

[BachFlyer]

Profmom yes, that is part of the question. It seems the Powers that Be would probably take an official position that pedigree doesn't matter, since they created the whole program to begin with. But to me at least the evidence points to the conclusion that Hopes qualification doesn't mean what us parents want it to mean. If a kid really is THAT good, doesn't Marta really already know who they are? Finding out who's amazing is pretty easy even for me, with just rudimentary research skills!

It seems like the biggest value might be as a test for the kids, to see if they can handle the pressure? And, also maybe to help develop more gyms into that prestigious level someday? I love a good exercise in theorizing, LOL

 

[bogwoppit]

I kind of wonder if it isn't a numbers game. The more kids trying Hopes/TOPs/Elite, the more viable the program. A bit cynical I know, but so few actually make it to National Team (or as Dunno put it, the real Elite) I kind of wonder about all the rest of the girls and their journey.

If they truly are not going to make it, will the journey prepare them to be better JO gymnasts going on to college careers?

Is the journey simply a way of making it easier for the very best to get seen? Albeit off the backs of the girls who excel but who are not the best of the best?

In addition to the regular TOPs camps there are now paid TOPs camps, to bring in kids too young for National testing, or girls that did not make the cut for A or B team. Is this also just about the $$$ or the numbers needed to keep the program in the black?

Would there be a Classic if there were only 25 gymnasts at that level? Probably not, so instead there are a whole ton of Elites who can compete, but could they make the national team?

Are all the US "elite" girls actually strong enough to compete Internationally?

Is Elite just a word being used, when perhaps another word could be used.

Just trying to get my head around the whole why elite question.

 

[bookworm]

Would there be a Classic if there were only 25 gymnasts at that level? Probably not, so instead there are a whole ton of Elites who can compete, but could they make the national team?

One year there weren't many who qualified with the original "qualifying" score so it was lowered (from 55 to 53 for Srs, and 53 to 51 for Jrs) so there'd be enough gymnasts to make it a viable Visa Championships meet....

And my take on HOPES, is USAG "hopes" you spend your money on it....

 

[profmom]

Very interesting. I guess one good thing about the boys' side is that doing Future Stars and Junior Elite does help down the road for college gymnastics, even though it's not necessary. I don't think anyone would argue that investing in FS/JE is a waste of time or money if a kid has the talent and work ethic to do well in the programs. But maybe I'm just naive because the only kids I've seen doing it seem to have benefited.