Parents Question about moving up.

[Barney6]

My daughter is a level 5 at a gym that requires her top 3 scores to average to 35. This gym always has gymnast in the top 3 places on every event and always gets 1st place for the team award.
Her highest score so far is a 33.8. While she is obviously not a natural, she has been working really hard. After our last meet she was bawling because she didn't get a 35 so she feels she will have to repeat level 5. With two more meets to go her chances of moving up to the next level are getting slimmer and slimmer. I think she has already given up and does not see the point in trying at these next two meets.
As a parent I am not sure what to do? Should I look for a new gym that does not have such a high score requirement and will let her move up, knowing that she will not score really high in the next level or do I have her repeat and hope she gets better scores next year and gets more ribbons/metals? It is really hard to know what to do because right now I feel my daughter does not think she is good enough because she can't get over a 35. Is this a realistic expectation?

 

[MaryA]

I think gyms that require a fairly high move-up score need to make sure they're pretty serious about uptraining. Doing another year of 5 (which, of course, will be called "level 4" which makes it a little harder to stomach for repeaters) won't be a bad thing if she's still getting to work on new skills. And, the upside of the whole level-change thing is that she will get to learn a new routine and have new music. If you are otherwise happy with your gym, I wouldn't switch. Level 5 isn't an uncommon level to repeat. There are so many huge changes that happen in level 5 (vault table, kip, using both bars, etc.).

 

[cbifoja]

I could not send my child to a gym that has rigid scores for move ups. I don't like that approach because it ignores the individual needs. Every child has strengths that cannot necessarily be captured in a compulsory score. And if your gym is placing that high in every meet, it has a feel of sand bagging as well.

My child would be repeating at your gym but at her gym she is working hard for the chance to compete the new L7 but is at least guaranteed to compete L6. It would be a shame to make my child repeat L5 because she isn't a great compulsory gymnast (she's not horrible, but not gorgeous either) but she can get those big skills fairly easily. She is always the first on her team to try anything because she is fearless. But she does struggle with the artistic side. She is young so her coaches believe she will grow into the artistic part and they want her to get the big skills while she is still fearless.

So she is not a cookie cutter gymnast. Quite honestly, if we were told she had to repeat L5, I'd probably look at some other options. And I would have a hard time ever choosing a gym that mandated scores or levels. We have a gym in our state that I would never consider sending my child to because they require every gymnast to repeat both L5 and L6. No exceptions! That is for the gym's reputation, not the child's development.

 

[Gymmom495]

To me it sounds like the gym your at now is more concerned about their reputation rather than their gymnasts development and progression. As I know it is very common for gymnasts to repeat levels it's not always because they did not meet the scoring goals of their club, it's usually because they as an athlete would benefit from spending another season training some of the skills they may not have perfected or spend more time refining the more graceful intricate parts of that level. I was once told by a very successful coach that real gymnastics doesn't start until optionals, everything up until then is learning the basics, how to do skills and getting comfortable competing in front of a crowd. I say take her to another gym and get her evaluated because if she truly loves this sport you don't want this gym to break her spirit.

 

[wallflower]

I don't think a 35 is a very high standard. Do I think every kid who doesn't meet that standard should repeat? No, but honestly if your child is scoring 33's she probably needs to repeat level 5. Gymnastics only gets harder and if you are getting 33's you probably haven't mastered the basics of level 5. I'm sure there could be an exception like a child who is really strong on bars but not great on vault. Bars is what you really must have to move up, whereas vault is the same at the next level.

 

[my4buffaloes]

Am I the only one that doesn't think a 35 AA is all that high? I know of a gym around here that requires 36 or above on 3 meets (not an average like hers) to move up. Personally I think she should repeat if the gym thinks she should. level 6 stinks and is much harder than level 5. Also the scoring is so much tougher! 33s at L5 could be 31-32 at L6. That could be crushing to a gymnast!

All of that being said, at least they take the average. If she gets a 35 at 1 meet and a 36 at 1 meet she has the average right? I would encourage her to not give up! I think it is better if they don't take a strict move up score as the requirement for the next level, but I don't know if there is anything you can do about it. Hopefully if she is close they will consider and maybe you talking to the coach would help you better understand it.

 

[cbifoja]

I don't think that a 35 is particularly high but I think that compulsories are kinder to those girls who can do all of the dancey type things and very punishing to those who can't.

My kid can't do that stupid stand up on her beam dismount but can do a beautiful press handstand mount. So ouch in compulsories but a B in optionals.

She struggled with the leg cut back/shoot through in compulsories but could cast handstand before any of her teammates. Again, sucks during compulsories but useful in her optional routine.

Dropped her cartwheel about 40% of the time but is the only on her team consistently throwing BHS so definitely going to play to her strengths on beam and not do a cartwheel whereas in compulsories, she had to do what "they" wanted.

I think it is important to look at big picture if you are taking the whole child into account and not try to fit everyone into the same little box. I've read it here over and over and over.....some kids just aren't great compulsory gymnasts but turn out to be wonderful optionals. I wonder how many of those kids get stomped out of gymnastics by using only scores to determine who can move up and who can't.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I think people need to remember scores vary in different areas--I don't know where the OP is from, but around here an AA of 35 would indicate a good gymnast--getting 32-33 AA shows good competence at the compulsory levels in my area. It's not common to see 9s on events (there are always some, but not a ton). If gyms required 35 AA averages, I think 90% of girls would be repeating levels (some for a third or even fourth year.

How are her scores comparing to others? (is the average a 35 or a 32?)

I would be more concerned with her skills itself--is she able to do them pretty well? Is she missing any skills?

 

[EastCoastGymMom]

I'm sure it depends on where you live, but a high or average of 35 all around would most likely not be good enough to move up a level at our gym (which produces elites and many college gymnasts). It's a big jump from L5 to L6 (mostly bars and floor), so it would probably also depend on if the gymnast had the skills to move up or not. I don't think a gym is necessarily sandbagging with those score requirements. It would be unfair to put her in a position to compete without having the skills she needs for Level 6.

It sounds like some gyms like to push the girls quickly through compulsories to get to optionals, but that's just not how it's done at our gym. Interesting how there are so many different schools of thought about progressing through the levels. Many girls at our gym repeat a compulsory level at some point, and we have an amazing optionals team. They do a lot of uptraining too though.

 

[Natasha]

Is she typically in the top 1/2 for your area? Around here L5 is very common to repeat as L6 can be very harsh. So typically speaking, the girls in the top 1/2 tend to move to L6 while the others repeat. In our area a season high of 33.8 would not really demonstrate mastery of the L5 skills and it will only get even harsher at L6. Our state splits our L5 girls into 2 divisions for state meet using their highest season AA. In our state (which is not a highly competitive state at all) the split was just over a 35.

 

[SignHere]

In my area, several gyms require an AA score of 36 in compulsories to move up a level. Is that high? Maybe... But you can look at the routines and they are beautiful and you could argue that the girls carry those basics through to the next year. And a lot of the kids end up in the 37 s and 38 s at the end of the year.

Then look at kids who consistently score 33s and 34s in compulsories. It's not that common for them to hit optionals and start scoring 37s and 38s. It happens, but its not that common. You can look up the scores on www.mymeetscores.com

Note: disclaimer: my kids score 35s - just hit 36 s at their States

 

[B&M's mom]

How are her skills? Even though I'm not a coach or a judge, I can see some of the weaknesses in my DD's skills. She's also a Level 5 and her scores would probably qualify her to move up under your gym's criteria BUT her kips are a work in progress and her vault comes and goes. She and I have talked about the fact that she will probably end up repeating just so she can improve those two areas.

Moving up just to move up doesn't make a lot of sense if they don't have the fundamental skills. Unlike level 4 where a lot of the skills weren't building blocks, Level 5 skills are. It's going to be harder to do Level 6 if she doesn't have a good command of the Level 5 skills. I've talked with my daughter about this (repeatedly) and she seems to understand this.

 

[LizzieLac]

How are her skills? Even though I'm not a coach or a judge, I can see some of the weaknesses in my DD's skills. She's also a Level 5 and her scores would probably qualify her to move up under your gym's criteria BUT her kips are a work in progress and her vault comes and goes. She and I have talked about the fact that she will probably end up repeating just so she can improve those two areas.

Moving up just to move up doesn't make a lot of sense if they don't have the fundamental skills. Unlike level 4 where a lot of the skills weren't building blocks, Level 5 skills are. It's going to be harder to do Level 6 if she doesn't have a good command of the Level 5 skills. I've talked with my daughter about this (repeatedly) and she seems to understand this.

Agree with you. A strong level 5 is more likely to be able to get the level 6 skills. Every kid is different of course, but what I like about the gym requiring an average of a 35 to move up means it is not so subjective on the coach's part. Coach's get hammered for not defining the criteria for moving up, so this helps with that situation.

I don't think a 35 is that high - but it does show solid competence at that level. However, competence at level 5 does not mean competition ready level 6 skills. In reality it has to be a combination of solid scores and achieving the next level skills and being able to compete them safely.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I think score minimums are about reputations for some gyms. What is it that's hurting her scores? Would you say it's form or skills - like is she falling on beam every time, missing her squat on, etc.? Or is she doing the routines w/o major mistakes and just getting 8's across the board? Is it one event or all 4?

Across the board 8-ish scores tend to tell me that your DD may not be up to the "form standards" of a gym that wants high scores to advance and she may be better off somewhere else that doesn't care so much about all their gymnasts getting 36's. One bad event tells me your DD just may need some extra help/private lessons on that event to get up to speed w/ her level and a gym change may not help much (unless the coaching style/methodology of your current gym on that event just doesn't work well for her individual needs, and another gym would do better for her), falls/skill misses at meets may mean a repeat is in order to master the skills, but then as others have said, uptraining is key if she repeats.

I think 35 is a little high of a requirement for move up...I'd personally set it at 34. A kid capable of a 34 would likely be bored repeating the level IMO.

 

[Dka]

If that were the case at my gym, my dd would have still been a level 5 this past season. My dd got consistent 34-35 at level 4, never got a 35 at level 5 but consistently got 36-37 at level 6. She will skip the new level 6 and go to the new level 7 or 8... Has giant, clear hip handstand, pirouette etc. plus BHS/BHS on beam. Had she stayed at level 5 she would have never made the big jumps( she is in 4 th grade). My dd was not a good compulsory gymnast and has passed the girls getting 35-36 at level 4 and 5...so I do not believe in repeating, she may not be the norm.

 

[Krystan]

If you trust the coaches and you like the gym, I'd trust their decision and go with it. I also disagree with going by score alone for move-ups as there is so much else involved, not the least of which is readiness with the skills for the next level. Also, one bad event (or one really great event) could be skewing the AA score. However, a 33.8 gymnast still has a bit of work to do at the current level. In our gym, L5 is a VERY common level to spend more than one season in, and those who repeat come out MUCH stronger for it. A few of the ones who repeated last year were able to score out of 6 in the fall and compete 7. This year our repeating 5's had a wonderful season and are much more confident. I know there is an extra wrinkle this year because no one wants to be in L4 after being in L5, but in the long run it could be the best decision for her. If you're not sure what the plan is or what the issues are, talk to the coach. Good luck!

 

[sglemon]

Trust you gym! Level 6 scoring is much tougher, especially with form. She will need a 31 next year to progress, and it will be difficult for her to do that.

 

[txgymfan]

My 2 cents. Some kids would do great at 38, they can do the skills but mess up the "text" and are still learning form. Some kids might do poorly at L3 - L6 and then ROCK optionals and go on to D1 Scholarship. In other kids the low scores are proof that they need more work on their basics and should repeat the level with generous uptraining. You can find examples of both on CB. The bottom line is "do you trust your coaches and enjoy your gym enough to stay?"

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I don't think that a 35 is particularly high but I think that compulsories are kinder to those girls who can do all of the dancey type things and very punishing to those who can't.

My kid can't do that stupid stand up on her beam dismount but can do a beautiful press handstand mount. So ouch in compulsories but a B in optionals.

She struggled with the leg cut back/shoot through in compulsories but could cast handstand before any of her teammates. Again, sucks during compulsories but useful in her optional routine.

Dropped her cartwheel about 40% of the time but is the only on her team consistently throwing BHS so definitely going to play to her strengths on beam and not do a cartwheel whereas in compulsories, she had to do what "they" wanted.

I think it is important to look at big picture if you are taking the whole child into account and not try to fit everyone into the same little box. I've read it here over and over and over.....some kids just aren't great compulsory gymnasts but turn out to be wonderful optionals. I wonder how many of those kids get stomped out of gymnastics by using only scores to determine who can move up and who can't.

===

ummm, perhaps you missed the 33 part of the op post. and the bawling etc... Last year I had 45 kids on my compulsory team, only 2 scored under a 35...... it's not that hard, and if you are scoring 33's then you are not performing the skills properly, no if's ands or buts.... No, compulsory kid vs optional kid etc.. a 33 means you have problems that need to be fixed. PS. we are in southern Cali, notorious for low scoring... My advice to the op is, trust your coaches, keep your child safe , build a solid foundation and lastly, ask the coach!

 

[cbifoja]

===

ummm, perhaps you missed the 33 part of the op post. and the bawling etc... Last year I had 45 kids on my compulsory team, only 2 scored under a 35...... it's not that hard, and if you are scoring 33's then you are not performing the skills properly, no if's ands or buts.... No, compulsory kid vs optional kid etc.. a 33 means you have problems that need to be fixed. PS. we are in southern Cali, notorious for low scoring... My advice to the op is, trust your coaches, keep your child safe , build a solid foundation and lastly, ask the coach!

I usually do okay with my reading comprehension and don't feel like I "missed" anything. I'm not making any kind of judgment on whether or not the OP's child should move up or not. I've never seen the kid stretch a single muscle! My responses were in regards to my opinion about using a specific number to determine whether a kid should move up or not without looking at other aspects of the gymnast.

And my responses were based on a score of 35, not 33. I think getting an average score of 8.75 on 4 events is enough to warrant serious consideration of moving up depending on a child's goals, personalities, strengths, and weaknesses. An 8.25 average....yes, maybe the child should repeat again, depending on taking into account the whole child.