WAG Question About New Level 6

[Natasha]

Maybe this will be a deal breaker for me then. None I my kids are casting to a handstand yet, just to 3/4 or just above that. This means that their bar routines will start from a 9.4...

Now I don't know what to do...go with new 6 or stay in compulsories. I guess I can always do new 6 and keep working on getting handstands...since we work on handstands anyway

Since I don't have a code to reference, are there any more things like the casting to a handstand that I should know about for the other events?

The cast deduction is "up to .3" for not hitting handstand, with the full .3 taken for casts at horizontal. If they are 45 degrees the deduction is more like .15. IMO it is just one of the ways that the judges separate out the really good routines. I still think that even with the cast angle deductions they could score as well at L6 as at L5 on bars. And I agree, I have seen lots of L7 routines in bars without cast handstands that still score well. Also, a straddle cast would be allowed at L6 whereas the compulsories require a straight body cast.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

The cast deduction is "up to .3" for not hitting handstand, with the full .3 taken for casts at horizontal. If they are 45 degrees the deduction is more like .15. IMO it is just one of the ways that the judges separate out the really good routines. I still think that even with the cast angle deductions they could score as well at L6 as at L5 on bars. And I agree, I have seen lots of L7 routines in bars without cast handstands that still score well. Also, a straddle cast would be allowed at L6 whereas the compulsories require a straight body cast.

Ooooooh! Good call with the straddle cast! Didn't even cross my mind since I've been training compulsories for a million years. I'm not sure that all if my kids could get a straddle cast to handstand, but I bet I could at least half of them doing one relatively quickly...at least in time for their championship meets which are usually late January and late February. Definitely going to start on that tonight

 

[LizzieLac]

The cast deduction is "up to .3" for not hitting handstand, with the full .3 taken for casts at horizontal. If they are 45 degrees the deduction is more like .15. IMO it is just one of the ways that the judges separate out the really good routines. I still think that even with the cast angle deductions they could score as well at L6 as at L5 on bars. And I agree, I have seen lots of L7 routines in bars without cast handstands that still score well. Also, a straddle cast would be allowed at L6 whereas the compulsories require a straight body cast.

Thanks for the clarification!

I have a similar question about the jumps in the beam routine. Can you explain at what degree the new level 6 deductions would kick in?

 

[fuzi]

Thanks for the clarification!

I have a similar question about the jumps in the beam routine. Can you explain at what degree the new level 6 deductions would kick in?

Yep. At the the optional levels, the expectation is a 180* split leap or jump. The deduction is up to .20 for a split between 135* and 180*. If the split is less than 135*, the gymnast will not receive credit for their split leap or jump (both in the value of the skill as an A-B-C and the special requirement). It will be considered just a straight jump.

For example, say a new level 6 does a 125* split jump on beam. She doesn't fill the special requirement (lose 0.5), she doesn't get credit for her "B" split jump (lost 0.3 if that is her only B skill), and she likely gets a deduction for doing a "straight jump" with leg separation. OUCH!

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Yep. At the the optional levels, the expectation is a 180* split leap or jump. The deduction is up to .20 for a split between 135* and 180*. If the split is less than 135*, the gymnast will not receive credit for their split leap or jump (both in the value of the skill as an A-B-C and the special requirement). It will be considered just a straight jump.

For example, say a new level 6 does a 125* split jump on beam. She doesn't fill the special requirement (lose 0.5), she doesn't get credit for her "B" split jump (lost 0.3 if that is her only B skill), and she likely gets a deduction for doing a "straight jump" with leg separation. OUCH!

You literally just answered a question that I posted on another thread we cross posted lol

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Yep. At the the optional levels, the expectation is a 180* split leap or jump. The deduction is up to .20 for a split between 135* and 180*. If the split is less than 135*, the gymnast will not receive credit for their split leap or jump (both in the value of the skill as an A-B-C and the special requirement). It will be considered just a straight jump.

For example, say a new level 6 does a 125* split jump on beam. She doesn't fill the special requirement (lose 0.5), she doesn't get credit for her "B" split jump (lost 0.3 if that is her only B skill), and she likely gets a deduction for doing a "straight jump" with leg separation. OUCH!

But wait...what if the kid does a leap at 150 and not the split jump? Would they just lose the .5 if their B skill was, say, a bhs?

 

[fuzi]

But wait...what if the kid does a leap at 150 and not the split jump? Would they just lose the .5 if their B skill was, say, a bhs?

Good questions.

So for level 6 beam a kid needs 5 As (worth 0.1 each) and 1 B (worth 0.3).
They also need one acro element, a leap/jump with 180* split, a full turn, and an A dismount.

If a gymnast did a leap at 150, they would still be given credit for the special requirement of a leap/jump with 180* split (because it is over 135*). They would probably lose about 0.15 for insufficient split but would NOT lose 0.5 for a special requirement. A split leap counts as an A element.

Their BHS would then fill the "B" element requirement.

Does this help?

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Yep but if they are <135, they wouldn't get the requirement??

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Yep but if they are <135, they wouldn't get the requirement??

 

[fuzi]

Yep but if they are <135, they wouldn't get the requirement??

Exactly, if it less that 135, they do not get credit for the special requirement worth 0.5.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Exactly, if it less that 135, they do not get credit for the special requirement worth 0.5.

Ok. One more question:

Does the 180 split requirement for optionals also apply to walkovers? Suppose a kid who can't hit a 180 split in their front or back walkover uses a front or back walkover as one of their required "A" skills. Do they lose up to .2 for insufficient split?

 

[chalkbowl]

The L6 routine meeting all the requirements would be: kip, cast, clear hip (at horizontal or above to achieve a B), kip, squat on, long hang kip, cast, flyaway. If the clear hip in this routine does not receive B value part credit the only result would be losing .3 from the SV, it would still fulfill the special requirement.

A free-hip below horizontal is NOT in the new COP (if someone finds it please let me know...). Does this mean the routine of kip, cast, free-hip, kip, squat-on, jump to high bar, long hang kip, cast, fly-away would not only be loosing .3 for the missing B skill (assuming free-hip was below horizontal) but would also be an element short in addition to missing an element from groups 3, 6, or 7?

Or does that just mean that a free-hip below horizontal will incur more deductions?

 

[fuzi]

A free-hip below horizontal is NOT in the new COP (if someone finds it please let me know...). Does this mean the routine of kip, cast, free-hip, kip, squat-on, jump to high bar, long hang kip, cast, fly-away would not only be loosing .3 for the missing B skill (assuming free-hip was below horizontal) but would also be an element short in addition to missing an element from groups 3, 6, or 7?

Or does that just mean that a free-hip below horizontal will incur more deductions?

I'm still trying to figure this one out too, but based on the judge's cheat sheet and bar technique page, I think all clear hips are now Bs. There is a new deduction for "insufficient amplitude of B clear hips of" up to 0.40, which corresponds to the diagram showing a clear hip below horizontal incurring a 0.35-0.40 deduction.

 

[fuzi]

Ok. One more question:

Does the 180 split requirement for optionals also apply to walkovers? Suppose a kid who can't hit a 180 split in their front or back walkover uses a front or back walkover as one of their required "A" skills. Do they lose up to .2 for insufficient split?

Good question. Same deduction.

 

[chalkbowl]

I'm still trying to figure this one out too, but based on the judge's cheat sheet and bar technique page, I think all clear hips are now Bs. There is a new deduction for "insufficient amplitude of B clear hips of" up to 0.40, which corresponds to the diagram showing a clear hip below horizontal incurring a 0.35-0.40 deduction.

Thanks Fuzi, missed that diagram going through the book the other day!