WAG Question about repeating a level

[AgingHippie]

I am not a big fan of the score requirement either, only because it puts so much pressure on the girls to attain that number rather than allowing them to celebrate accomplishments.

 

[raenndrops]

Oh sorry, one more thing for clarification. Kids are in training groups not level groups so repeating doesn't necessarily mean you have to move down a group. Most groups are multilevel to facilitate individual training plans, uptraining, group progress and development and strong team bond. Any group shuffling is done at summer schedule creation.

During Late March to Mid-August, we have training groups, but even they don't stay consistent throughout a practice... our groups are called "clubs" and the only kids that basically stay together during the entire practice are the girls that just moved up to team and are working on skills to compete L3. There is a mixed level group in "kip club" (last season L3s, a couple L4s, and some Xcel Golds)... a mixed level group in "Flyaway club" (Last season L4s, a couple L5s, Xcel Golds, and Xcel Platinum)... a mixed group in "Yurchenko club" (Last season L5s, L6s, L7s), etc.
Once we get to mid-August, all of our Optionals will be a group (Xcel and L6-L8), L3 will be one or two groups, depending on how many ACTUALLY are ready and WANT to compete, and L4/L5 will be a group.

 

[gothgymmom]

My DD is going through this. We thought this the best for her. She qualified to test Lvl 4 but we wanted her to get a little more mature in her routines before moving her up. She will be uptraining Lvl 4 while perfecting her Lvl 3 routines, and will also be helping the new Lvl 3's coming from Lvl 2. Shes very excited about doing this. Shes been having problems with her team mates from this past season, so its a good thing. They call it the Lvl 3 training group, and she has fun helping the girls learn the routines, and she is more comfortable with these girls then her previous ones.

 

[Becauseisaid]

Are there any questions I should be asking the coach for clarification? We usually have some sort of conference at some point during the off season.

You can probably get all the answers you are looking for by just asking "what is your plan for DD?".

Everyone else can tell you what THEIR gym does, but until you talk to your DD's HC, you don't know what is going to happen. Asking what the plan is reassures you that 1) there IS a plan and, 2) what sort of training you can expect for your daughter.

 

[Flyaway]

You can probably get all the answers you are looking for by just asking "what is your plan for DD?".

Everyone else can tell you what THEIR gym does, but until you talk to your DD's HC, you don't know what is going to happen. Asking what the plan is reassures you that 1) there IS a plan and, 2) what sort of training you can expect for your daughter.

I'm guilty of never asking what the plan is for dd. And that's definitely the first question on my list! . I think I wanted to find out what was "normal" (if there is such a thing) among gyms. We don't really have other gyms in the area to compare to. I know in upper levels it's very normal to repeat and the girls move less as a team and more individually, but I've noticed at the lower levels they tend to train and move more as a pack- which is great if you're in the middle to top, but if you're at the bottom it can leave you far behind. I want to make sure I'm a good advocate for dd without crossing over into CGM territory- the line between which seems fuzzy at times. . But I do appreciate the advice and anecdotal stories.

 

[Judybird]

Those are the tangibles that will cause a girl to repeat. There are a few intangibles, and I suspect this is what upsets parents when they're told their gymmie is repeating the level. Those intangibles include things like age/maturity--can they mentally handle learning the next set of skills or do they need a year to 'grow up'; attitude--are they negative Nancys, or do they stay positive, even when things get rough; work ethic--do they goof off and play around or do they put 100% into the entire practices; dedication--do they show consistent attendance, the higher the level the more time it takes to get the skills and the fewer breaks the girls can take. Very few gymnasts have all of these attributes so the coaches have to weigh who is more likely than not to be successful at the next level, not just physically, but mentally, psychologically, and emotionally as well.

I am trying to mentally prepare myself for the possibility that my gymmie might repeat level 3 despite a year where she averaged over 37 AA. Our gym not only wants a gymnast to "have" the level 4 skills but have a reasonable expectation that they'll score well over 36 AA. A possible barrier to this kind of growth is emotional maturity. That is one thing that no amount of conditioning or privates can instill. Only time will tell.

 

[stxrdusty]

I skipped a compulsory level so I don't know how much help I can be, but from what I've seen the reason kids repeat levels in general is just that they don't have the skills for the next level, so from what I've seen the kids spend some time perfecting the skills they're competing during competition season, but do quite a bit of up training the rest of the year. Back when I went to a gym with compulsories we formed whole new groups with upcoming girls and whole other groups with girls that were more experienced at a level or had already competed the level and we repeating, so they usually could train with the girls they competed with the previous year. That could also be because we rarely had kids repeat levels though. My old HC HATES compulsories and tries to get kids to optionals as quickly as possible and then works on really perfecting skills. Not to say that we don't put effort into the basic skills of compulsories, as they are very important, but as a whole routines were largely secondary in compulsories for us, the skills were more important.

 

[sce]

I am trying to mentally prepare myself for the possibility that my gymmie might repeat level 3 despite a year where she averaged over 37 AA. Our gym not only wants a gymnast to "have" the level 4 skills but have a reasonable expectation that they'll score well over 36 AA. A possible barrier to this kind of growth is emotional maturity. That is one thing that no amount of conditioning or privates can instill. Only time will tell.

That is awful! I especially feel bad for the kids competing against kids who repeat for this reason. It's completely unfair. Even USAG discourages it.

Here is text from the website about the JO program:

1. In the spirit of good sportsmanship, fairness to all athletes and competitive balance, the mobility system within the Jr. Olympic Program should be followed in the manner that it was intended:
   
   1. Before moving up a level, every athlete should show proficiency at her current level.
   2. Once a high level of proficiency is achieved at the athlete's current level, she should strive to move up to the next level, as long as it is done safely.
   3. For athletes to repeat a level with the intent to gain an advantage over other competitors or teams IS NOT in the spirit of the Jr. Olympic Program or youth sports in general.
2. No mandate scores are permitted at any level. The Jr. Olympic program's purpose is to provide competitive opportunities for all athletes, regardless of their age, ability level, or training commitment in terms of hours and/or finances.
   

 

[hearts_and_stars]

For athletes to repeat a level with the intent to gain an advantage over other competitors or teams IS NOT in the spirit of the Jr. Olympic Program or youth sports in general.

This happens all the time in Texas. There are a TON of gyms here who are known for competing their girls down, especially in the optionals levels. We've been at meets where we've seen the top 3 girls score over 39. One girl scoring over 39, okay, she's good. Multiple girls doing it? Something's not right. DD's coach tells her not to worry about scores as much as place--she is shooting to be top 5% in her age group and level. That has helped her tremendously when she has to sit and watch the top girls scoring well over 39 and know she can never get there unless she competes down.

 

[gothgymmom]

I know when I asked HC if what we were doing with DD was going to be considered "sandbagging" she said no, as DD only made it over a 34 twice, and just barely over. There were alot of times this past season where she did not place at all, so thats where the maturity comes in and working on perfecting her routines now and her form. Personally I have not seen much sandbagging in the gyms we compete against in region 7, so I wouldnt know it was happening anyway lol.

 

[Flyaway]

It definitely wouldn't be sandbagging in my dd's case. But I've seen it in our region. Some of the power house gyms in the area are notorious for it. We just encourage dd to focus on herself and her gymnastics, and not worry about what other gyms and gymnasts are doing.

 

[flippinam]

This happens all the time in Texas. There are a TON of gyms here who are known for competing their girls down, especially in the optionals levels. We've been at meets where we've seen the top 3 girls score over 39. One girl scoring over 39, okay, she's good. Multiple girls doing it? Something's not right. DD's coach tells her not to worry about scores as much as place--she is shooting to be top 5% in her age group and level. That has helped her tremendously when she has to sit and watch the top girls scoring well over 39 and know she can never get there unless she competes down.

I wish I could like your post 100 times!! It happens way too often! Somebody did four seasons of level 7 after consistently scoring 36's her first season, 37's the second, 38's-39's the third along with state & regional AA champ, yet she still repeated again!! Not only do people repeat multiple times, most gyms have their level 8's competing level 4! I've seen videos on YouTube where the title of one video will be "Amazing level 4 gymnast 39 AA!" then the next video will be "Amazing gymnast Tsukahara by herself or fulls or BHS series on beam". And they have those skills looking competition ready! If they're capable of that they should at the very least be competing 5! It gives the girls who are competing their actual level no chance.

 

[2G1B]

I know when I asked HC if what we were doing with DD was going to be considered "sandbagging" she said no, as DD only made it over a 34 twice, and just barely over. There were alot of times this past season where she did not place at all, so thats where the maturity comes in and working on perfecting her routines now and her form. Personally I have not seen much sandbagging in the gyms we compete against in region 7, so I wouldnt know it was happening anyway lol.

IMO two meets in the 34s and the rest under that is definitely not sandbagging. I don't consider it even possibly sandbagging unless the kid was scoring consistently 36+.

Disclaimer, we are in a state where 36 AA is very good and will place you high AA. I know in states like TX a 36 might not even get you in the top 50%. I imagine it is different in those states.

 

[raenndrops]

Somebody did four seasons of level 7 after consistently scoring 36's her first season, 37's the second, 38's-39's the third along with state & regional AA champ, yet she still repeated again!!

Playing Devil's Advocate here (though I believe it could easily be sandbagging) Did this girl have her routines fully upgraded (like throwing L8 skills as much as possible in L7)?
I am just asking because we have a girl that competed 3 yrs at L7... scoring 35/36s all 3 years (and getting a lot of 1st places). She didn't move up because she didn't have a flipping vault or a full on floor. If she doesn't get them this summer, she will probably repeat ONE MORE TIME, but it isn't sandbagging because she can't SAFELY move to the next level at this point (but she is getting closer).

 

[gracyomalley]

It really is a bit different with optional levels. DD did 2 years of 7 with 35-36+ scores and had she competed this year for her "new" gym might have done a third (she took time off to decide about gym in general instead then just trained). In our state her level 7 scores placed her top 6 at state in lowest age groups both years, for perspective. At the time the decision was made she really wasn't ready to do 8 for multiple reasons. Would it have been sand bagging? No because she wasn't ready to move up and still not even 12 at the time. Did I think it was "fair" to all the other kids, not sure. In any case things went the way they did ...

Repeating a level means different things at different times. Focusing on stay in a positive mindset for long term enjoyment of the sport most important to me now. For my little boy that means he'll certainly repeat. My olders are pushing for level 8 this year. I have no idea how they'll do but I do trust their coaches now, which makes a huge difference. And I know their coaches are looking at them as individuals but numbers.

 

[3gymgirls]

My daughter will be repeating Amerikids 2 next year. She tied for 3rd on vault at state, but only started getting her stride circle in practice in March and never made it in competition. Because she didn't have it consistently, she couldn't start working front hip circles or shoot throughs. Her back walk over was not great until April, and her hand stand isn't vertical on beam yet. She will continue to up train and build confidence. I'm hoping this sets her up to transition to usag 3 without having to do Amerikids 3 first.