Anon Question for parents/coaches of extremely talented athletes, from parent of an average one

[Anonymous (c64b)]

Asking on behalf of my daughter, who is a strong gymnast and is progressing steadily, but very average at a gym with elites and future elites:

What do the truly talented/prodigy gymnasts think of the “regular” gymnasts in their midst? I’m not looking for answers if you’re at a gym where elites/future elites/fast track athletes are in separate practices.

Until recently, all of our gymnasts trained at the same time, so elites were alongside level 3s, etc, for at least part of their workout. The regular, one level/year girls were constantly being compared to the fast tracked and elite path girls by coaches and told that they needed to work hard like them if they ever wanted to move up, stay in DP, etc. The entire gym halts practice to watch certain fast track girls’ new skills and routines. If meet sessions overlap and lower level girls don’t cheer enough for the fast track/elite path girls, they get scolded before awards for not having team spirit. But the expectation is that those girls shouldn’t use their energy for lower level girls because they need to focus on their routines. Basically all of the energy in the gym is channeled to the most talented girls.

My vent aside, my daughter definitely thinks about these girls a lot. It’s fair to say that all of the girls at the gym who are the same age as these girls but many levels younger notice them, are told to notice them by coaches, and have a certain degree of envy even though they’re proud of them.

My daughter said something yesterday like I wonder what it feels like to do level 3-8 in less time than will take me to do compulsories? And she has wondered what it would be like to get a new skill in one try or in a few days, compared to the months or years it takes her, or what it’s like to never get below 2nd AA for an entire competitive career.

I’m guessing the answer is that they don’t actually think of girls like my daughter at all, and they might even assume that girls who struggle or don’t progress quickly don’t work hard or aren’t trying. But I didn’t say that.

Coaches/parents, do you think your super talented prodigies have opinions or thoughts about their less successful teammates? Or is their bubble and personal progress so separate that they don’t even notice them?

 

[Anonymous (fe73)]

Can only relate my experience (or my daughter's really). They train in a gym with elites and DP, they all train at the same time. Now just to be clear it is basically the L9, 10 and Elites. They train in mixed groups so its not just elites in one group and DP in in another. I would strongly disagree with your assumption, at least for the girls at that level and age. The elite or "super-talented" DP girls first, appreciate the amount of work and difficulty involved in this sport. They respect any gymnast who shows up at the gym, locks-in and works hard in practice. They definitely do not like girls that come to gym for social hour or time wasters during practice. They are right there cheering for girls to get new skills even if it is one they mastered long ago. Second, many of these girls have the same fears and self-doubt that any gymnast who has been doing this sport long enough experiences. They love this sport and appreciate there really isnt that much margin of difference between elite and L10.

One final note, I do firmly believe in the culture of a gym. Culture starts at the top, the owner and coaches set that. My DD's gym seems to have a completely different culture than yours. All gymnasts are celebrated, no one is made to feel "less-than" because they are not elite. As I said all accomplishments are celebrated. They would never stop practice just so an elite could show a new skill. I'm not going to say that elites dont get a little extra attention, but its kinda the nature of training at that level. But they certainly aren't touted as a class above any others. Also, there might be some age/maturity at play here. Girls that are 9-10 years old and in an environment that constantly touts them might have that "me" centric viewpoint. That typically changes by the time they get to 14-16 after experiencing injuries and blocks and setbacks and other high-performing gymnasts.

 

[Anonymous (93c7)]

Usually the elites I've met (different system and country) are super nice to young girls.
I once went to an elite training center with one of my gymnasts who was really young at the time and they congratulated her in a nice double turn she did.
Maybe at a young age and in a toxic environment they can get a little entitled but as a whole I don't think so.
In our gym sometimes we stop to watch a new cool skill from the higher levels, but also we stop and clap for a new easy skill, like a back walkover.

 

[Anonymous (6c46)]

Last Thursday, the entire gym cheered when 3 of the rising Level 4s got their kips for the first time. That included the girls on vault working Yurchenko fulls.

 

[Anonymous (5454)]

In my opinion the culture of your gym is very off. Most elite girls are not treated like this anywhere else from my understanding. Every gym has their favorites that are going to get more attention and special treatment than others, but definitely definitely not to this extent.

 

[Anonymous (3c31)]

One thing to note, what looks like getting a skill 1-2 tries or in one day may actually be something they've been working on in private lessons for several weeks. I know of one young phenom who would work on a skill in private lessons until she had it, and then in practice say "Can I try such-&-such"? And then do the skill and get praised for being able to throw it her first try. It was annoying, and I got what was happening, but like I said, what seems to be getting it right away may actually be a lot work behind the scenes.

In general, our high performing and uber talented gymnasts are very friendly and kind and cheer for their teammates at practice and meets. And yes, they do get more attention because they are training/are elites, but overall they are a nice group of girls who have their struggles and blocks, and are encouraging and supportive of all the others.

 

[Ty’s Dad]

We just left a gym where they started putting compulsory girls in with the elites and my daughter hated it. It wasn’t a stuck up type of hate, it was more like the elites need to get ready for season, but the coaches have to go help kids with a back tuck or whatever level 4s and 5s do.

 

[Anonymous (c64b)]

We just left a gym where they started putting compulsory girls in with the elites and my daughter hated it. It wasn’t a stuck up type of hate, it was more like the elites need to get ready for season, but the coaches have to go help kids with a back tuck or whatever level 4s and 5s do.

Actually what we are experiencing is the opposite. Compulsory coaches will leave a rotation to go cheer on a fast track girl or to help with the fast track group because one of their coaches has to go help with elite. Or it will be the compulsories’ hour on floor but they’ll lose half of it because a HOPES girl needs run-throughs or they want to video an instagymmie to repost on the gym’s instagram.

It leads to what seems like an attitude of entitlement but maybe I’m missing something that explains it. For example, for a while my daughter shared a locker with a girl her age who was training HOPES. They had a shelf and equal space, but the girl kept throwing my daughter’s stuff out of the locker because “you don’t need room for your stuff.” They both had the same amount of stuff and it’s not like my daughter wasn’t in grips or anything.

It does sound like elites/parents look down on compulsories from their own bubble, so I guess I got my question answered. Even casual comments like “a back tuck or whatever level 4 and 5s do” makes it sound like compulsory skills are so basic and easy that an elite parent can’t fathom someone needing help with it.

 

[Anonymous (958f)]

A lot of the elite track girls have a lot of pressure on them and I get why a gym wants to help them feel good about themselves because their are a lot of days they are going home feeling like they will never get to whatever level/skill they are expected to get and that they are a total failure.

That being said your paying money for your child to have the best experience possible not ensure that someone else's child sees their true potential. I would walk away from an environment like that where the standard track girls don't feel good about themselves.

 

[Anonymous (31f5)]

I am a parent to 3 gymnasts, two of which received much more attention and were labeled *talented" elites. I watched from the side as my older gymnast who was labeled 'not as talented" worked her butt off, failure after failure, shaft after shaft.

Guess which daughter is a junior elite today. The one labeled "not talented" for years. She is an inspiration to
our family and proof that hard work can beat talent, and that noone has to accept the "labeling" that other girls or coaches may put upon out girls.

 

[Dahlialover]

My 9-year-old son is training junior elite. He’s an obvious outlier in terms of his gymnastics development, but no one makes a fuss about it. I would be very upset if my son were singled out like you describe. Are they trying to ensure those girls have no friends? That’s messed up!

As far as what my son thinks of the compulsory boys his age, I think he’s a little bit jealous of them because they have more fun. All the boys train at the same time but my son trains with the optionals group, which is mostly high schoolers. He only trained with the compulsory boys for a year but he still misses them. Depending on the different group schedules, he likes to come early or stay late to goof around with the boys his age. Their gymnastics ability is irrelevant to him, they are his friends. The elite girls in your gym must be so lonely! I think that is really sad.

Also, you and your daughter may have an inaccurate image of what it’s like to be an elite track gymnast. My son had an amazing first year in gymnastics where he picked up all the compulsory skills in rapid succession. New skills every day! But that fun was over in a blink of an eye and now he’s working on level 8 and 9 skills that are scary and hard and he struggles every day. The kids who are talented don’t struggle less, they just start struggling at a higher level and, at that point, the struggle involves a lot more fear and psychological distress. And there is never any respite; as soon as they get one scary skill, they move right on to the next one. It kinda sucks. Oh and if everyone expects you to win AA at every meet, it starts to feel like anything short of winning is failure. And even when you win, the coach is there to tell you everything you did wrong. I’ll bet your gym is trying to use public praise to boost these kids up because everything else in the sport tears them down. The whole thing is kind of sad.

Maybe next time your daughter has a birthday party, shoot some invites to those girls. They’d probably appreciate it.

 

[Anonymous (9301)]

It does sound like elites/parents look down on compulsories from their own bubble, so I guess I got my question answered. Even casual comments like “a back tuck or whatever level 4 and 5s do” makes it sound like compulsory skills are so basic and easy that an elite parent can’t fathom someone needing help with it.

I think this post has shown you that the problem is the culture at your gym. You've read post after post mostly stating that. As far as the comment above - I don't see any negativity towards compulsory. Honestly, when your kid has been L10 or elite for several years you truly forget what skills are in lower levels and there are sometimes shifts in levels where requirements change.

 

[Ty’s Dad]

Don’t know how you came up with we look down on compulsories out from what I said. But ok

 

[Ty’s Dad]

Our girls were all compulsory at one point so I never would look down on anyone. I seriously haven’t watched anything under a level 10 in so long I don’t remember what the routines are. Like above said. Wasn’t an insult or anything, I just feel compulsory should be with compulsory, 6, 7, and 8 should be together, and 9, and 10 should be together. Even elites with level 8-10 work. But a compulsory with an elite I just don’t understand.

 

[Dahlialover]

The regular, one level/year girls were constantly being compared to the fast tracked and elite path girls by coaches and told that they needed to work hard like them if they ever wanted to move up, stay in DP, etc.

I think it is very important to distinguish between “fast track” and “elite path” 7 to 12-year-olds vs actual senior elites. These are very very different categories. I assumed your daughter was asking about similar-age gymnasts who are progressing quickly. (My answer about my 9-year-old son was based on that assumption.). It would be strange to expect 18-year-old senior elites, who are fully focused on their own intensive training, to pay a lot of individual attention to the 100 little compulsory gymnasts that they share the gym with.

 

[Anonymous (c64b)]

I think it is very important to distinguish between “fast track” and “elite path” 7 to 12-year-olds vs actual senior elites. These are very very different categories. I assumed your daughter was asking about similar-age gymnasts who are progressing quickly. (My answer about my 9-year-old son was based on that assumption.). It would be strange to expect 18-year-old senior elites, who are fully focused on their own intensive training, to pay a lot of individual attention to the 100 little compulsory gymnasts that they share the gym with.

I appreciate everyone’s replies. It’s really informative to hear from parents on the other side of things and gives me perspective. In some ways, I wonder if the model that some international federations use might be better. Elite and DP are so different that it’s hard for a gym to serve those two groups of athletes well. Maybe giant gyms do it better?

For clarification: our gym is smaller and compulsories, optionals and elite combined were <100 last year, with ~15 who are senior elite, junior elite, and HOPES. Most of our elites can’t drive yet.

The fast track girls are ~10 young upper optionals girls who are 10/11 and many could qualify HOPES or Junior elite next season depending on their birth years if they choose to try. Those girls all started with the girls who are currently levels 4, 5 and 6 which is probably why they interact with compulsories more than usual and why compulsory coaches know them and are invested in them. The girls socialize still- compulsory girls are inviting everyone in their workout group plus the fast-track girls they used to be in groups with to hangouts and birthday parties, partly in recognition of the potential isolation you mentioned.

 

[Anonymous (fe73)]

That sounds like actually a pretty big gym. Its unusual to have that many elites both jr and sr in one gym. Only gyms like WCC and WOGA might have that many active qualified elites (15?!). Most gyms might have one or maybe two active/qualified with another handful of girls that are training to qualify elite. Honestly the difference between elite and DP is not that significant. The incentives (higher difficulty, longer, more intense sets) and scoring is different, but its still gymnastics. The fundamentals are the same, the core skills are the same. The biggest difference is the intensity of training. Elite training is all business, intense and fast paced. Girls have to be able to absorb and take corrections quickly. There is no reason why a L9-10 cant and often do effectively train with elites, they just have to be willing and able to train in that manner. I definitely agree though as several have comments, there is a different category when you are talking about girls that are being "fast-tracked" and even HOPES from girls that are qualified jr and sr elites. My response is definitely in L9-10 and qualified elites category. Girls that are fast-tracked just tend to be a grey area, since one doesnt know if they can make it.

 

[Anonymous (3c31)]

That sounds like actually a pretty big gym. Its unusual to have that many elites both jr and sr in one gym. Only gyms like WCC and WOGA might have that many active qualified elites (15?!). Most gyms might have one or maybe two active/qualified with another handful of girls that are training to qualify elite. Honestly the difference between elite and DP is not that significant. The incentives (higher difficulty, longer, more intense sets) and scoring is different, but its still gymnastics. The fundamentals are the same, the core skills are the same. The biggest difference is the intensity of training. Elite training is all business, intense and fast paced. Girls have to be able to absorb and take corrections quickly. There is no reason why a L9-10 cant and often do effectively train with elites, they just have to be willing and able to train in that manner. I definitely agree though as several have comments, there is a different category when you are talking about girls that are being "fast-tracked" and even HOPES from girls that are qualified jr and sr elites. My response is definitely in L9-10 and qualified elites category. Girls that are fast-tracked just tend to be a grey area, since one doesnt know if they can make it.

I thought the same thing. My daughter's gym is probably considered a medium to large gym with 25+ level 10s and 7 in the elite training group. We have 4 qualified Jr Elites competing this weekend at American Classic, and that is a significant number from one gym. So if her gym has 15 elites, that's a large gym in my opinion, unless they only have a small, carefully selected, exclusive compulsory team that immediately goes into HOPES/elite training after level 5.

 

[Anonymous (f436)]

It seems like you have a lot of resentment for how fast tracked girls are treated compared to your daughter. This sounds very unhealthy for your gymnast and you as a mom. I’d highly recommend you find a different program that’s a better fit.

My daughter trained at several gyms in her career where she was one of the elite group and also later where she wasn’t and was just a level 10. I’ve never seen behavior like you are describing even in a gym that was actively sending multiple girls to the Olympics.

So either there is a HUGE cultural problem at your gym or you are perceiving every small thing as a slight to the regular path gymnasts due to built up resentment. Either way, it sounds like it would be healthier for your athlete to be somewhere else.

The best thing any gym mom can do is stop watching practice and making comparisons. It’s hard, but it’s so much healthier for you mentally. I can say this because I made that mistake and learned from it.

I’m a few years out of the loop, but I honestly don’t know of any gym that has 15 girls qualified hopes/junior/senior currently. I think you may be mistaken. I am admittedly a bit out of the loop so someone can chime in and correct me.

 

[Anonymous (6d10)]

I feel like a perspective shift would greatly help you and your gymnast!! Even if the coaches are constantly comparing gymnasts you can teach the dangers of comparison. You can lead your child in that shift by NEVER comparing them to other gymnasts. Celebrate her achievements no matter how small they seem to you compared to other gymnasts. Teach her to focus on herself, her goals.