Reward vs. Bribe

[MdGymMom01]

I can just say from my experience that bribes don't really work all the time. Here is an example. Last year my dd was having an awful time with her BHS. She had fear issues and balked and hesitated constantly. She developed bad habits from being so frustrated. I would try to entice and motivate her with certain things--webkinz, money, trips to the mall, a new outfit... sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Now, one has to figure, was it the object that produced the result or was it another factor entirely (her own motivation or just having a good day).

When we switched to the gymnastics gym, I decided to back off totally and not even stay and watch practices like I used to do at cheer. This has made a wonderful difference in her performance. It seems like she is doing her skills becuase she wants to and not because I am rewarding her for anything. I don't even ask her much about practice anymore. I might say something like how was practice? But she is the one to offer info to me and tell me about what she did. Which I think is great because it is coming from her--she is being motivated by her own satisfaction of accomplishing new skills.

 

[mariposa]

We don't do rewards around our house. I tend to agree with a lot of what Alfie Kohn talks about in this interview. He is mostly talking about parenting, but to me it carries over into everything else.

Staples - FamilyEducation.com

 

[gymnaSTICKs]

at my old gym, there was a coach who always bribed kids - but only his favorite gymnast. she was the strongest so he automatically liked her best, even though most of the rest of us worked just as hard. for instance, he once offered her 5 dollars to do a stalder press - it was obvious that she'd be able to do it and he didnt offer it to anyone but her. he made a big deal about it and made everyone in the gym stop and come over to watch. that wasnt the only time either... he did stuff like that all the time.

my parents never BRIBE me to get me to do stuff - they know i'm already trying as hard as i can and so bribing me wouldnt have much effect... they DO reward me sometimes though - like if i get something new they'll take me out to ice cream after practice. things like that.

 

[NYgymfan]

I've found I've never needed bribing with sports. I've picked up things fast. But for some reason my parents felt the need to bribe me to get good grades in school. I've always been a good student, but I think they wanted to make sure that I didn't start slacking off when I got to middle school. So when every quarter starts, we go over my classes, and how I'm doing in them. We agree on a "reward chart", with different monetary awards for different combinations of good grades and lack of bad grades.

But I don't think it really had much of an impact on how well I did in classes. I always seem to get the second highest award amount we agree to, because I always do fine in all my classes except English. There is never any temptation to slack off...since I know I want to go to a good college. But there isn't really a strong enough incentive to work really really hard to pull up the English grade since I would still get 80% for not letting my English grade slip any lower.

In the end, I wish my parents would just surprise me and be like "heres a little gift for doing so well on your report card". The setting up a reward chart in advance really made me feel like I was earning the grades for them and not for myself.

 

[Aussie_coach]

The idea of buying something at a meet for a child who doesnt place like a leo is one to be really careful of aswell. Losing is an important part or any sport and an important part of life, learning to deal with dissapointment and be proud of the effort that they put in and not always having to have something to take home is very important. But buying something for them every time they dont place can lead to them using buying new things as a way to excape dissapointment and pain.

 

[Deleted member 1703]

At the 3 gyms in the UK with which we have been involved, all of them used the "ringing the bell and demonstrating the new skill to everyone present that day" method. None of them gave any kind of gift for a new skill. It is just the prestige / pride of ringing the bell and performing for everyone. Usually followed by a few hugs from the older girls and lots of "well done's" from the other gymnasts, coaches etc.

I have not ever given my gymnast anything as an explicit motivator or reward for achieving a new skill but from time to time I buy a couple of new leotards (usually more than one at a time as I get them from the USA and the postage is cheaper if I get a few together). These leos really speak her language!! I give her one every 3-4 months, sometimes when she is at a real down stage and I think she needs perking up and sometimes when I think she has really worked hard at something. She never knows when they are coming and I dont link them verbally to any particular skill.

Anyway, as a complete opposite - I have a chart on the piano with a place to be ticked for each one of them to mark their piano practice. If all are filled in at the end of a month, I am ashamed to say ..... I PAY THEM!!!! How bad is that?

 

[margymmom]

Research shows that giving kids repeated extrinsic rewards for behaviors leads to poorer motivation long term and prevents them from developing internal motivation to perform. That is, if your goal is short term performance, reward may be successful. If you want you child to maintain a "love" of something or a desire to excel, constant reinforcement is not the best idea.

That said, my daughter has been struggling with a skill since January, and her competition season starts in August. She works so hard, is very close, but the only one on her team without the skill. Did my husband offer to buy her a camera (something she really wants) when she gets it? Yes, he did. Somehow, it adds a little fun to it for my daughter. I'm not worried though- they are both happy with the arrangement and this is a first for her. Maybe it will be cheaper than tons more private lessons?

My point, really, is that most thing are ok in moderation. And from a parenting perspective, there really is no difference between bribery and reward- both are forms of increasing behavior you want to see more of (or positive reinforcement). The difficult question is: should we be worried about increasing or speeding along all skills? It can make the kids think that we value something like gymnastics more than they do.

 

[Deleted member 1703]

It can make the kids think that we value something like gymnastics more than they do.

Definitely - in the case of the piano lessons!!

 

[lannamavity]

Research shows that giving kids repeated extrinsic rewards for behaviors leads to poorer motivation long term and prevents them from developing internal motivation to perform. That is, if your goal is short term performance, reward may be successful. If you want you child to maintain a "love" of something or a desire to excel, constant reinforcement is not the best idea.

That said, my daughter has been struggling with a skill since January, and her competition season starts in August. She works so hard, is very close, but the only one on her team without the skill. Did my husband offer to buy her a camera (something she really wants) when she gets it? Yes, he did. Somehow, it adds a little fun to it for my daughter. I'm not worried though- they are both happy with the arrangement and this is a first for her. Maybe it will be cheaper than tons more private lessons?

My point, really, is that most thing are ok in moderation. And from a parenting perspective, there really is no difference between bribery and reward- both are forms of increasing behavior you want to see more of (or positive reinforcement). The difficult question is: should we be worried about increasing or speeding along all skills? It can make the kids think that we value something like gymnastics more than they do.

There is a huge difference between bribery and reward in any case:

A reward system is an established, fair and appropriate way to acknowledge achievement as an athlete progresses.

Bribery is offering a special prize to alter the effort put forth by an athlete which changes the athlete's behavior until the prize is attained. It's a short term fix and it makes a coach's job twice as hard.

We have a bell in our gym, and while it's kind of goofy, the Level 1s to the Level 10s understand the symbolism and have respect for it. That's all they get, and that is enough. I usually find out a kid is being bribed by parents after having a meeting with them about problems happening with that child during workout. Funny how that always seems to happen.

 

[margymmom]

There is a huge difference between bribery and reward in any case:

A reward system is an established, fair and appropriate way to acknowledge achievement as an athlete progresses.

Bribery is offering a special prize to alter the effort put forth by an athlete which changes the athlete's behavior until the prize is attained. It's a short term fix and it makes a coach's job twice as hard.

We have a bell in our gym, and while it's kind of goofy, the Level 1s to the Level 10s understand the symbolism and have respect for it. That's all they get, and that is enough. I usually find out a kid is being bribed by parents after having a meeting with them about problems happening with that child during workout. Funny how that always seems to happen.

From a technical perspective, there is no difference between bribery and reward. Most of the times we give kids things to shape and reinforce behavior we want to see more of (think potty training- "when you use the potty all day for a week we'll buy big girl panties!"). Not many people would argue that that type of influence is bad.

The nice thing about the bell is it is not giving kids an extrinsic reward (like a new toy), instead they get a sense of pride and acknowledgement for their work and success. Hugs and kissses and "good jobs" have the same effect (some "extreme" experts thing we should so away with those too!). I'd like to see my daughter's gym start something like the bell system.

 

[gracefulone]

We don't have a bell, but at our gym the coaches call attention to the the gym, everyone watches, and then cheers for the girl who just got a new skill. It'd be nice to have a bell, though, I think.

 

[gym law mom]

Our gym has a bell. Its upstairs, so when a girl is told they can ring the bell for getting a new skill, they have to go up the stairs to ring it---so they are standing there taking their bow in a sense. When the girl rings the bell, everyone stops for a few seconds while the girl calls out the skill she has just learned and then they get a round of applause. I don't know that it's so much a reward or really recognition. There are no prizes or anything else given out. I can say that all the girls no matter the age love to climb those stairs to ring the bell!

 

[lannamavity]

From a technical perspective, there is no difference between bribery and reward. Most of the times we give kids things to shape and reinforce behavior we want to see more of (think potty training- "when you use the potty all day for a week we'll buy big girl panties!"). Not many people would argue that that type of influence is bad.

Actually, that system only works if there is a continuing reason for a child to continue the behavior...like, it's not socially acceptable to poop in your pants at a certain age.


But that kind of training is horrible for gymnasts in because, as you mentioned, it takes the reward out of the context of the gym completely. I see a lot of parents become frustrated while their kids struggle, and it's understandable, but the kids who succeed usually have parents who let the kids work out their difficulties with success in the gym as their primary reward.

If the bribe is offerred to entice the gymnast through fear, the fear is bound to return at some point once they have fulfilled the short term goal. That can lead to long term issues.

 

[NYgymfan]

I wonder if there is a difference between awards/bribes for an activity or sport like gymnastics vs. something that you have to do even if you don't like it, like go to school. Gymnasts should succeed because (hopefully anyway) they are in the gym because they want to be there and want to succeed. If you don't like gym anymore, you'll stop going. So things like ringing the bell when you get a new skill (my gym does this too!) work fine because everyone is there for the same reason. But then you have something like school where you have to go even if you don't like it. The built in "reward" system is to get good grades and hopefully get into a good college in the end, but that reward system doesn't do it for some kids. There are plenty who just don't care. Sometimes other rewards might work better.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I think by rewarding kids for getting new skills we really are not encouraging the right behavior. It is wonderful when they get new skills but there are plenty of kids who get stuck on skills and show other behaviors that equally deserve rewards.

I think we would do better to reward hard work, committment, team spirit, consistency, facing and over coming fears, effort and attitude. Some kids will walk in the door and progress with amazing speed and limited effort they may get skill after skill and sometimes when it gets hard they just give up, while other kids will struggle but will never give up when things get hard.

I don't see anything wrong with giving out rewards and prizes for a good job in the gym, but I don't think it should be for getting skills.

 

[NYgymfan]

I guess its harder to give out "teamwork awards" in gymnastics like you can in other sports, just due to the individual nature of gymnastics. We give out teamwork awards in soccer a lot, usually for anyone who goes above and beyond putting the team's needs ahead of their own needs. Very often that means they were not the one who scored the game winning goal, but instead the person who got an assist on that goal.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Reward the effort and persistance not the skill

I think we would do better to reward hard work, committment, team spirit, consistency, facing and over coming fears, effort and attitude. Some kids will walk in the door and progress with amazing speed and limited effort they may get skill after skill and sometimes when it gets hard they just give up, while other kids will struggle but will never give up when things get hard.

I don't see anything wrong with giving out rewards and prizes for a good job in the gym, but I don't think it should be for getting skills.

You really hit the nail on the head!! Rewarding these behaviors is what is really important and will build more confidence and create higher self esteem in the kids in the long run.

 

[lannamavity]

I think by rewarding kids for getting new skills we really are not encouraging the right behavior. It is wonderful when they get new skills but there are plenty of kids who get stuck on skills and show other behaviors that equally deserve rewards.

I think we would do better to reward hard work, committment, team spirit, consistency, facing and over coming fears, effort and attitude. Some kids will walk in the door and progress with amazing speed and limited effort they may get skill after skill and sometimes when it gets hard they just give up, while other kids will struggle but will never give up when things get hard.

I don't see anything wrong with giving out rewards and prizes for a good job in the gym, but I don't think it should be for getting skills.

I guess I assumed that the "bribe" discussion had to do with gymnasts trying harder to attain skills, since that is the most obvious measure of success in competitive gymnastics (aside from scores, which athletes have absolutely no control over).

While I firmly believe that rewarding athletes for accomplishing skills is great for the morale of the gym as well as individual gymnasts (regardless of skill level, I mean EVERYONE learns new skills at some point or something is seriously wrong in the gym)...

I'm interested to hear how gymnasts could be "rewarded for being a good gymnast" on a daily basis. I mean, isn't it assumed that they are all putting out effort, have a good attitude, are committed, support their teammates, etc.? If one gymnast is singled out for "trying hard", who is to say that half of the other gymnasts aren't trying just as hard? There has to be some measure of success. It is a sport.

Aside from the "team spirit" or "most improved" type awards at the end of the year, what other rewards systems for behavior are out there?

 

[Aussie_coach]

But gymnastics is so much more than just a sport to be measured by the skills they learn. In fact the skills are probably the least important factor. That may sound crazy, but their gymnastics training is also life training.

Take for example learning to do a back handspring. Being able to do a back handspring has no practical purpose in most daily pursuits and future careers. But in oder to learn the back handspring the gymnast must work hard, be persisitent, listen to and take on board corrections, not give up when it gets hard and face their fears. All of these skills will play a major role in their daily lives and future careers. It's these life skills that will remain long after the back handspring is gone. Many kids leave gymnastics and never do another back handspring in their lives but they will take that learning proccess with them everywhere.

Just assuming that all kids are going to work hard and have a great attitude is almost like assuming that they arent kids (or human beings for that matter). Coaches know when one of their kids is putting in the extra mile, facing a fear, taking the next step and so on. They dont need to be a measurable point on a chart to be recognised and rewarded. It can be done at any time, mid training, end of training, each week, each month or anything.

 

[Billy]

I would never suggest rewarding a gymnast with a toy or a leo or a shopping trip for every skill. I only used that when my gymmie was having particular difficulty and/or had a major fear to overcome and I used is as an additional reward for conquering that fear or accomplishing her goal. And it was very helpful. She was able to get over the fear and she was able to gain consistency in her skill. She knows she doesn't "get stuff" for everything and in fact, she's never even asked for anything.