WAG S/O Mean coaches

[fuzi]

No, not a native English speaker.

I would also be fine if it was just HC was disappointed in her performance. BIG difference. So I'm not saying anything right now.

I think you are making the right decision then. Look at this in the big picture. If most things are positive in the gym, this could have been a misunderstanding on your gymmie's behalf, a language error on the coach's behalf, or a coach in a bad mood making an honest mistake.

Now if it becomes a pattern, that's another story.

 

[rjb123]

Since they are non native speakers, I would grant them some grace and just wait and see. I might also talk to your DD about the language barrier and how that might cause them to say things that SOUND bad or hurtful, but really just are not intended that way- it is TOUGH to learn a second language, and even after years, little things in the language can be tough! I have had this conversation with DD and now, instead of getting upset or confused, she just tends to go with the flow or ask for clarification. Also, not sure of how strong the accent is, or how old your DD is, but I will say that my DD had a TOUGH time understanding her coaches at first. She would just stare at them when they were trying to get her to do something with NO CLUE what they were saying to her! And of course that made them mad, thinking that she was being defiant or whatever. I told them that she couldn't understand them that well yet, and it helped a LOT. Instead of getting mad at her they would ask if she understood what they were saying. It kind of makes me LOL because I STILL have times when I don't "get" everything that they say, but now she translates for me.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

sorry, i still see a problem with a coach telling an athlete that they are disappointed in their performance. it's not the coach's performance in which to be disappointed in. so, i don't care how you cut this one. the coach is a moron. most children work their *** off to get adult approval and recognition.

now, if the coach wants to tell them that they are disappointed in their work habits, work ethic, not listening to and not making corrections in a timely fashion, talking too much, slow to start conditioning and slow to finish, etc; then i would agree that that's okay. in this way, you are constructively criticizing their "process" and that he/she needs to do better. and all of this is contingent on the coach being truthful to the child and not spearing them because the coach is inept. and all of this not being done in the process is what leads to poor performance on a floor and this is what they must be told.

when Maroney messed up her "performance" on her 2nd vault, do you think it would have been appropriate for Artur or Galina to tell her that they were "disappointed" in her performance. of course not. that's all.

 

[gymnastike30]

Under no circumstance would I tell any of my athletes I was disappointed with them. Period!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Under no circumstance would I tell any of my athletes I was disappointed with them. Period!

you're young. you will at some point. and it is more likely than not that it will have nothing to do WITH gymnastics but something that could affect their gymnastics.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

sorry, i still see a problem with a coach telling an athlete that they are disappointed in their performance. it's not the coach's performance in which to be disappointed in. so, i don't care how you cut this one. the coach is a moron. most children work their *** off to get adult approval and recognition.

now, if the coach wants to tell them that they are disappointed in their work habits, work ethic, not listening to and not making corrections in a timely fashion, talking too much, slow to start conditioning and slow to finish, etc; then i would agree that that's okay. in this way, you are constructively criticizing their "process" and that he/she needs to do better. and all of this is contingent on the coach being truthful to the child and not spearing them because the coach is inept. and all of this not being done in the process is what leads to poor performance on a floor and this is what they must be told.

when Maroney messed up her "performance" on her 2nd vault, do you think it would have been appropriate for Artur or Galina to tell her that they were "disappointed" in her performance. of course not. that's all.

I am assuming that we are talking about two different things. Sounds like you are referring to a meet performance. While I am talking about performance in a turn or entire workout. If Sally goes up and swings an entire 5 minut turn of archy giants on the strap bar AGAIN, when I know she can do them correct.... I going to perhaps tell her that I am disappointed in her lack of effort. . And yes telling someone that a meet performance was disappointing is everything that I teach (try) my parents not to do,

 

[gymnastike30]

you're young. you will at some point. and it is more likely than not that it will have nothing to do WITH gymnastics but something that could affect their gymnastics.

You are probably right! I'm dealing with a lot of crying. Every.single.practice!

 

[Becauseisaid]

sorry, i still see a problem with a coach telling an athlete that they are disappointed in their performance. it's not the coach's performance in which to be disappointed in. so, i don't care how you cut this one. the coach is a moron. most children work their *** off to get adult approval and recognition.

THANK YOU! Exactly!

And I don't buy the "English is not their native tongue" excuse either. Sometimes mean is just mean. Regardless of country of origin. If a non-native coach is struggling for a word and then comes up with "disappointed" once, I might get that they meant something else. But when they're rapping out "I'm disappointed in you." or "You're a disappointment to the gym.", then I have no choice but to believe that they are NOT the appropriate person to be motivating children.

 

[munchkin3]

We have two coaches. One who does not speak English well and would NEVER criticize the child, ONLY the skill itself.
Other coach in American and criticizes the child and not the skill.....
Guess who are the happier students?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i certainly hope it's the first.

 

[iwannacoach]

.... And I don't buy the "English is not their native tongue" excuse either......

I hope you never find yourself in a foreign country and tasked with a mentor role to a group whose language is at best your 2nd choice.

The coach may have said I'm disappointed with you, and did so in the context that we have a lot of work to do, or let's share this burden, or I feel your pain, and all the kid hears is they are a disappointment.

I don't know if this accounting is true, but I heard it and can believe it. It was many years ago so forgive me if I miss or add a minor detail.......

There was a great gymnastics coach named Bela Karoli who immigrated to the US so he could continue to pursue one passion, and set out to pursue his second dream of becoming a cowboy. He did so by getting hired on to work at a ranch. In the course of that pursuit he either rode a bucking bronco, or was in a group of cowboys watching other break in some wild horses. When Bela, or some other cowboy, stayed on the horse and had a good ride, he would be cheered on and complimented with.......

Look at that son-of-a-bit** ride

- or -

You're one tough S.O.B.

So when Bela was coaching, as the story goes, he would cheer on his gymnasts with "Look at that s.o.b. go" and "You're a tough s.o.b."

Or something like that.

 

[sce]

Someone corrected Bela when he said that. it was an error due to the new language, but her was not just allowed to keep saying it. If these the OPs daughter was spoken to inappropriately, then the parent should talk with the coach. If it turns out to be a language issue then the conversation may warrant the coach finding some new words to use. If ti is not a language issue and is an attitude of the coaches, then that will come to light.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i was on the floor with Bela quite a bit. all i remember him saying to his athletes was "smooth" and "you can do it".

but my ear heard "smude" and "yucan tuit". took me time to figure out what he was saying. never heard the other stuff.

 

[Becauseisaid]

If it turns out to be a language issue then the conversation may warrant the coach finding some new words to use. If ti is not a language issue and is an attitude of the coaches, then that will come to light.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

If I were in a foreign country, I would not only hope, but expect, someone to correct me if I'm coming across as a butthole rather than use my nationality as an excuse. ESPECIALLY in a sport with impressionable children.

 

[Ali'sMom]

Someone corrected Bela when he said that. it was an error due to the new language, but her was not just allowed to keep saying it. If these the OPs daughter was spoken to inappropriately, then the parent should talk with the coach. If it turns out to be a language issue then the conversation may warrant the coach finding some new words to use. If ti is not a language issue and is an attitude of the coaches, then that will come to light.

I recently saw a youtube of Bela speaking somewhere and telling that story.
He was laughing quite a bit about how he heard them say SOB, so he went home and looked in the dictionary. Looked up son. Got it. Looked up b***. Female dog, got it. OH! PUPPY!!! So he called some of his little students SOB, and immediately found out it didn't mean sweet little puppy

 

[gymdog]

Meh, I think it could likely be a language issue. I'm sure there are some coaches that say that but I can't really imagine it in most cases. It's not very direct, personally if a kid is being disruptive or not doing what they usually do I just say "this is unacceptable. Can you do it or not?" Sometimes they say yes and I say " if you want to be allowed to do it then show me correctly". Sometimes they say no and I tell them "it's not safe/good to do it this way. When this happens you need to tell me" and send them to do a drill.

Or they are trying and just can't do it, but keep insisting they can if they get just one more try, like that will turn it from godawful to what I'm looking for. That's the more common problem we have. They usually get banned from it and have a drill for an unspecified time period so I don't have hear "can I try one more time? I'm really close!"

It's unfortunate that some coaches consider that "not making corrections." Usually they just can't do it.

My kids hear "unacceptable" a fair amount. But they don't seem to hate me yet.

 

[gymgymgymnast08]

My high school track coach told my friend she would be better at high jump if she had a smaller butt. My friend laughed it off and we made fun of her for her big butt (it was just a muscular butt like many of us are gifted with) for the rest of the season but there was no reason the coach should have said that to her.

I taught classes at a gym with an English as his second language owner. I wasn't around when he was coaching his team, but he would tell the kids in the classes things like "That was the worst back handspring I ever saw" or "You are terrible at bars." Some kids would tell their parents about it and parents would ask me if that was just gymnastics or if this coach was saying things he shouldn't. I honestly didn't know how to answer, but one of the moms eventually justified it to the other parents as just because he came from a different culture. They seemed to be okay with that. I didn't particularly think anything he said was terrible but I could see how it would be frowned upon.

I didn't compete for him, I just coached classes but I showed him some videos of my meets and used to play around sometimes at his gym between classes. One day he introduces me to one of his team girls and says that she reminded him of me because "we both have very little talent but we both love gymnastics and work hard at it so coaches really like to coach us." Another time he was telling me about how bad this one college gym team is. After he is literally talking about how bad this team is for at least 5 minutes, he tells me I should go to that college and be on that gymnastics team. I thought both of these things and things like it were hilarious but I think I generally have a thick skin. I know that if someone had said those things to my sister, she would have been very upset by them.

 

[txgal]

As a parent, I would not put up with it at all. DD's HC has told her she's disappointed in her attitude, work ethic, behavior, etc, but never that DD herself is a disappointment. That is something that I would address with the HC and, barring any satisfaction from that conversation, would begin looking at other gyms.

 

[kecks]

as a coach and teacher i think it is never okay to tell a kid you coach or teach that you are disappointed in him/her as a person; but you sure can tell someone you are (very) disappointed with their specific behaviour in a certain situation and also discuss with them why their behaviour/attitude etc. was disappointing to you.

for german people it is sometimes really funny how very little thick skin most americans seem to have when it comes to talking about 'negative' things or disagreement. in germany you just tell a person when you think something is not good/goes bad/they are wrong/whatever, and they take it and perhaps you agree to disagree or talk about the issue. so f.e. in academic discussions at college in germany it is absolutly normal and also not considered rude to say "i think what you just said is totally wrong, because... (add argument here)". in the states i learned to phrase this very, very differently, while i ment the same ('you are wrong') and from their reactions my american peers also understood the same: "perhaps one could also think at this point that sometimes it is also possibly the case that... (add argument here)". to use the literal translation would have been considered very rude here. talk about cultural differences!

however it is really difficult to draw the line in between cultural differences and abusive/uncalled comments from non-native coaches.

 

[gracyomalley]

There are coaches who can get so frustrated that they say things they likely regret. DD had a coach once who at a meet where all the (old)6s - half of whom were on their 1-2 meet at that level and 2-3 month of training it (kids moved through 6 fast at her gym to get to 7) - struggled on bars and even the stars scored low 9s/high 8s told the girls they had embarrassed said coach and she/he was disappointed to be their coach.

This coach is no longer coaching these girls, has their own gym and for many kids is a fantastic coach. Standards are high - but also I would say confidence is low - and when the kids don't live up to them rather than looking at what to work on for next year and congratulating them for whatever they did RIGHT could only see the negatives. Some of "our" girls continue to struggle with bars but some have gone on to consistently high scores at levels 7-8...their head coach has never expressed an ounce of disappointment in a meet performance - but plenty of honest discussions with girls about work/conditioning/skill development and such. The coach who told them they were disappointing is building a team of L3 and up who are winning and I suspect that those who can stick it out will eventually do well as higher level gymnasts as well. The optionals at that gym are consistently outscored by our girls....

DD actually worked well with this coach at the time (she was 9) but now talks about all the things she felt bad about....and this year she's really struggled with her own confidence issues - a coach who can't keep their own personal disappointment to themselves would have meant the end of gym for DD as she was plenty disappointed in her own mental blocks....which with kindness and patience from her coach and an expectation that hard work will pay off are resolving slowly...

Part of being an adult working with children is keeping your own feelings out of it.....