Parents Scoring out level 4 & 5

[Sebastian12]

I have seen this been done with gymnasts around me under 12, and my daughter is training 6 after competing xcel gold. I would love to find out what makes level 4/5 and scoring out “mandatory”?

1) it is that the usag site doesn’t allow registration of a level 6 without having level 4/5 scores?

2) say if there is a system loophole and no one checks, what are the consequences of skipping the score out? Gymnasts I know all went to states with no problem. Didn’t Simone biles just start as a level 8?

If this is relevant, reaching 10 is her goal, but college gymnastics is currently not. Any insight would be helpful. Thank you.

 

[raenndrops]

If a gymnast is under 12, they have to score out of Levels 4 and 5 (or get 36+ on Level 4 2x). From the age of 12 and up, the gymnast can be petitioned into Level 6 with an accompanying video demonstrating that they have the skills. The petition process used to be limited to those 14+, but they changed it a few years back.

As for Simone, if you look at MyMeetScores, it looks like she started at Level 8, but she began gymnastics when she was 6 years old. When she was young, not as many meets were posted on MyMeetScores. They originally didn't sort by state because there weren't very many meets shared with them at all. In the state of Texas, the first year they have ANY meets listed on the site (when sorted by state) is 2008. Simone was 11 years old by then. She had competed Level 8 the year before that. She could have scored out of lower levels (L5 - L7) or competed them before 2007.

 

[Coach Kate]

If a gymnast is under 12, they have to score out of Levels 4 and 5 (or get 36+ on Level 4 2x). From the age of 12 and up, the gymnast can be petitioned into Level 6 with an accompanying video demonstrating that they have the skills. The petition process used to be limited to those 14+, but they changed it a few years back.

As for Simone, if you look at MyMeetScores, it looks like she started at Level 8, but she began gymnastics when she was 6 years old. When she was young, not as many meets were posted on MyMeetScores. They originally didn't sort by state because there weren't very many meets shared with them at all. In the state of Texas, the first year they have ANY meets listed on the site (when sorted by state) is 2008. Simone was 11 years old by then. She had competed Level 8 the year before that. She could have scored out of lower levels (L5 - L7) or competed them before 2007.

Boorman's book goes into more details on her progressions through the levels too.

 

[Sebastian12]

The gymnasts I know were definitely under 12 and didn’t score out of 4&5. They transitioned from xcel/igc/AAU directly to 6. I am tying to figure out how it is “mandatory” but in reality doable and if there will be long term consequences?

 

[Coach Kate]

The gymnasts I know were definitely under 12 and didn’t score out of 4&5. They transitioned from xcel/igc/AAU directly to 6. I am tying to figure out how it is “mandatory” but in reality doable and if there will be long term consequences?

It's not worth the risk. Some places do check and then you can lose registration fees for the meet and not be able to compete. We had some weirdness with COVID things/not having meets and had to do last minute petitions ( for teens who technically hadn't competed since level 4 but had been training 6/7 and moved to Xcel diamond). It was really stressful for everyone. Your coach should not be recommending it and you should not be suggesting it. Some people literally score out of 4 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon on the same day. It's not hard to do.

It's mandatory because it's a way for USAG to make sure higher level skills aren't just being chucked. There is a very minimum standard at the entry level to make sure of safety. I do have to wonder if there will be more mobility between Xcel and DP in the future as so many gyms are using Xcel in place of compulsories. I personally think that if they did a minimum score in gold - it could even be relatively high, say 36 - it would achieve the same goals as having a mobility score from 4/5 to 6. 2 36s in level 4 can pass to level 6 without doing level 5. Although there is no kip required in gold, so maybe a 36 in gold could get you to level 5 and a 36 in platinum could get you to 6. I'm just brainstorming what I would be interested in seeing.

 

[Sebastian12]

It's not worth the risk. Some places do check and then you can lose registration fees for the meet and not be able to compete. We had some weirdness with COVID things/not having meets and had to do last minute petitions ( for teens who technically hadn't competed since level 4 but had been training 6/7 and moved to Xcel diamond). It was really stressful for everyone. Your coach should not be recommending it and you should not be suggesting it. Some people literally score out of 4 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon on the same day. It's not hard to do.

It's mandatory because it's a way for USAG to make sure higher level skills aren't just being chucked. There is a very minimum standard at the entry level to make sure of safety. I do have to wonder if there will be more mobility between Xcel and DP in the future as so many gyms are using Xcel in place of compulsories. I personally think that if they did a minimum score in gold - it could even be relatively high, say 36 - it would achieve the same goals as having a mobility score from 4/5 to 6. 2 36s in level 4 can pass to level 6 without doing level 5. Although there is no kip required in gold, so maybe a 36 in gold could get you to level 5 and a 36 in platinum could get you to 6. I'm just brainstorming what I would be interested in seeing.

Thank you. That is the thing, as far as I learned, for the other girls it was a coach driven process to bypass. Parents didn’t know too much. I don’t want any backlashes. So far I haven’t seen any on these girls. All have competed at states and some regionals and progressed to higher levels.

Agreed, better mobility is needed. She has all the skills, but learning L4,5 and 6 routines in one season is still a lot.

 

[TumbleTwist]

Thank you. That is the thing, as far as I learned, for the other girls it was a coach driven process to bypass. Parents didn’t know too much. I don’t want any backlashes. So far I haven’t seen any on these girls. All have competed at states and some regionals and progressed to higher levels.

Agreed, better mobility is needed. She has all the skills, but learning L4,5 and 6 routines in

Well it's "doable" in the sense that your coach is willing to break the rules and is taking a risk. Doesn't make it ok.

It could end up being an issue for the girls down the road. For example, if they ever wanted to switch gyms...If the new gym is like ours, they will check. Our owner is honest and follows the rules. A girl just came to a gym training level 8, and ended up having to do level 5 mobility before she was allowed to compete.

 

[Dahlialover]

Agreed, better mobility is needed. She has all the skills, but learning L4,5 and 6 routines in one season is still a lot.

She does not need to learn the 4, 5, and 6, rountines. She can do two 36 AA meets at level 4 then score out to 6 the same season or she can do a full season of level 4 and then go to level 7 the following year after doing one meet as a level 6. She would not need to learn different routines for level 6 and level 7, just make a few adjustments.

The reason they make it so inconvenient to use Xcel to bypass compulsories is because USAG does not want gyms routinely doing that. They want xcel to be its own program. It violates the spirit of the Xcel program to have 5 hour per week Xcel kids competing against 20 hour per week fast-tracked kids.

 

[Sebastian12]

Her gym doesn’t have level 4, so competing a year is not an option. Their usag side is only in the built for a few years. The xcel kids trains appropriate hours for xcel (4 for bronze, 9 for gold), but very effectively since they have small teams on all levels. My kid will not make a stellar compulsory kid and we are grateful she started in xcel. It would be great if an easier pathway is established.