So what is going on with BG?

[Jenny]

I appreciate what you are saying but the coaches need to be able to show they can produce the skills for the level of qualification they are applying for. Showing that they can deal with issues or fear is great but not relevant to showing if they can produce the move being assessed. It would come under a different part of the coaching award. Which I am sure they would have passed with flying colours. It is difficult if you only have one gymnast that can do that move. If they are ill on the day you can't really do it. Definitely should not blame the child. The coach should not have taken a child who was not able to do the skill. They should have cancelled the assessment and waiting for a more appropriate time. Coaches fault.

Now is the system perfect. No. Do coaches borrow other peoples gymnasts to pass exams when they have never coached that child or skill. Yes. Does that happen a lot. Yes all the time. But they do look at how you build up to a skill safely , how you support it etc etc. Not just the finished skill. Perhaps there should be more emphasis on that.

And if you trawl through facebook and instagram you will see countless videos of coaches and gymnasts doing skills they are not qualified for.
If you go to competitions you will see coaches taking gymnasts round doing skills and levels they are not qualified for.
When you enter a competition you have to put down a suitably qualified coach for each gymnast. But no one seems to check that coach is actually taking round that gymnast. Maybe the coaches should sign in at registration alongside the gymnasts.

I would like to see a BG list of coaches available on line with their qualification level.
Alongside this I would like a spreadsheet with the moves you are qualified to coach at each level.
And a better supported mentoring system that enables coaches from smaller clubs to develop coaching expertise at higher level clubs.

 

[Plank]

<snip> The coach should not have taken a child who was not able to do the skill. They should have cancelled the assessment and waiting for a more appropriate time. Coaches fault. <snip>

When you sign on for a course, you get given an assessment date at the location you chose. You can tell your gymnasts 4 months in advance if you need them and where they will be going. If you then defer, you will get maybe two weeks notice of an assessment date at a random location. You might not get another date for months, and you won't know when you will get a date, whether it will be in a month or a year.

I guess that for big clubs with a choice of gymnasts with advanced skills this is not an issue. But anywhere where gymnastics needs to expand, it is an issue. And it means that the big clubs can get bigger easily by mentoring coaches, but it is close to impossible for someone to come in from outside of the sport with new ideas and different ways of doing things and open up new clubs. This helps to make the sport a very closed community.

 

[Jenny]

When you sign on for a course, you get given an assessment date at the location you chose. You can tell your gymnasts 4 months in advance if you need them and where they will be going. If you then defer, you will get maybe two weeks notice of an assessment date at a random location. You might not get another date for months, and you won't know when you will get a date, whether it will be in a month or a year.

I'm sorry but that is not my experience of rearranging assessment with BG. It is doable and the mental health of the gymnast should come first. End of.

but it is close to impossible for someone to come in from outside of the sport with new ideas and different ways of doing things and open up new clubs. .

This is as it should be. Gymnastics is a very specialized and high risk sport and someone without experience of the sport should not be able to just come in and open a club. The ways of doing things are there for a reason.

 

[Jimjac]

I would like to see a BG list of coaches available on line with their qualification level.
Alongside this I would like a spreadsheet with the moves you are qualified to coach at each level.
And a better supported mentoring system that enables coaches from smaller clubs to develop coaching expertise at higher level clubs.

I think a registered coaches is a fantastic idea.
I also believe that coaches should be better supported and monitored. I think it would be useful for BG to send someone round to clubs to monitor the coaches & provide support to ensure that they are safe & help with progression. Not just skill progression but conditioning program as well as many injuries are through poor conditioning. This should be available as part of the clubs membership & not at additional cost. After all huge amounts of money are spent sending more coaches/ support workers to international competition. I also think coaches should have to attend refresher course/assessments to ensure that they are following latest developments - maybe every 5 years.

 

[Triadian]

I also believe that coaches should be better supported and monitored. I think it would be useful for BG to send someone round to clubs to monitor the coaches & provide support to ensure that they are safe & help with progression. Not just skill progression but conditioning program as well as many injuries are through poor conditioning. This should be available as part of the clubs membership & not at additional cost. After all huge amounts of money are spent sending more coaches/ support workers to international competition. I also think coaches should have to attend refresher course/assessments to ensure that they are following latest developments - maybe every 5 years.

This would be a wonderful idea as I know of several coaches who practice bad coaching methods and coach above and beyond their qualification.
Some clubs also have "volunteers" who are not trained or DBS checked who are told to coach the recreation kids while the "qualified" coach trains the better kids.
While we are at it the memberships of each and every club should be checked regularly as again I know of a club that only registers the "good" gymnasts and those that only do 1 hour a week as recreational kids are covered under the block registration scheme even though they request £17 off each of them IMO this block registration scheme should be stopped or be monitored more frequently and by an independant person working for BG not by the club itself.

 

[Bean counter]

I appreciate what you are saying but the coaches need to be able to show they can produce the skills for the level of qualification they are applying for. Showing that they can deal with issues or fear is great but not relevant to showing if they can produce the move being assessed. It would come under a different part of the coaching award. Which I am sure they would have passed with flying colours. It is difficult if you only have one gymnast that can do that move. If they are ill on the day you can't really do it. Definitely should not blame the child. The coach should not have taken a child who was not able to do the skill. They should have cancelled the assessment and waiting for a more appropriate time. Coaches fault. .

You are factually wrong, Jenny on several issues

In a L3 technical module a coach is assessed on:-

- understanding of the skill and how to develop it
- Ability to support gymnasts doing the skill

There is categorically no requirement to 'produce the skill'. Coaches have to produce gymnasts who are at an appropriate level for the coach to demonstrate his coaching, and the guidance on this is that they should be able to do level 2 skills in that discipline. I think confusion arises because the coach has to bring gymnasts who he himself coaches for CHILD PROTECTION REASONS.
As for Jenny's waffle about fear issues being another part of the syllabus , there is no 'other part of the syllabus' on L3 technical modules so I haven't a clue what she is talking about.
I did my WA L3 technical modules about 2 years ago and there was no 'assessment date' set in the same way as for L1 and 2. It is up to the individual coach to try to get someone from a list of technical experts to assess them.
Now there were no assessors within 150 miles of where I live and where I did the course.You try getting someone to travel 150 miles for the princeley sum of £15 and petrol expenses.I think the system has changed abit now (I hope) But speaking to assessors BG have lost their way.Communication is non-existent

 

[Jenny]

You are factually wrong, Jenny on several issues

In a L3 technical module a coach is assessed on:-

I was thinking of level 4 and above

 

[Jenny]

You are factually wrong, Jenny on several issues

In a L3 technical module a coach is assessed on:-

- understanding of the skill and how to develop it
- Ability to support gymnasts doing the skill

There is categorically no requirement to 'produce the skill'. Coaches have to produce gymnasts who are at an appropriate level for the coach to demonstrate his coaching, and the guidance on this is that they should be able to do level 2 skills in that discipline. I think confusion arises because the coach has to bring gymnasts who he himself coaches for CHILD PROTECTION REASONS.
As for Jenny's waffle about fear issues being another part of the syllabus , there is no 'other part of the syllabus' on L3 technical modules so I haven't a clue what she is talking about.
I did my WA L3 technical modules about 2 years ago and there was no 'assessment date' set in the same way as for L1 and 2. It is up to the individual coach to try to get someone from a list of technical experts to assess them.
Now there were no assessors within 150 miles of where I live and where I did the course.You try getting someone to travel 150 miles for the princeley sum of £15 and petrol expenses.I think the system has changed abit now (I hope) But speaking to assessors BG have lost their way.Communication is non-existent

I don't think the reason you are asked to bring your own gymnasts is for child protection issues. That is news to me. And if that is so why do so many coaches use other peoples gymnasts?

Sorry you are offended by my 'waffle' lol. It may have changed now but you used to have to do a lot of self reflecting in the logbooks which included blocks and fears and how to work through them by planning accordingly. I remember having discussions with my assessor about it.

I totally stand by not taking a gymnast with fears to an assessment of the skill they have fears of. Why would you do that? That will only stress them and make the fears worse. Should have rearranged the assessment for when they had a suitable gymnast. And that is tough when you don't have many gymnasts, I appreciate that. But the gymnast's well being should have come first. End of. Even if you have to wait another year.

 

[coach1234]

When you sign on for a course, you get given an assessment date at the location you chose. You can tell your gymnasts 4 months in advance if you need them and where they will be going. If you then defer, you will get maybe two weeks notice of an assessment date at a random location. You might not get another date for months, and you won't know when you will get a date, whether it will be in a month or a year.

I guess that for big clubs with a choice of gymnasts with advanced skills this is not an issue. But anywhere where gymnastics needs to expand, it is an issue. And it means that the big clubs can get bigger easily by mentoring coaches, but it is close to impossible for someone to come in from outside of the sport with new ideas and different ways of doing things and open up new clubs. This helps to make the sport a very closed community.

Not for level 3 as it is done in modules, you do the module and then arrange with the assessor when you are ready to do the exam, you have 2 years to take the exam or you have to redo the module.

You also now have to provide a paragraph to your assessor as to what input you have had with the gymnast you are taking to your assessment to try and prevent coaches taking other coaches gymnasts

 

[Jenny]

You also now have to provide a paragraph to your assessor as to what input you have had with the gymnast you are taking to your assessment to try and prevent coaches taking other coaches gymnasts

I am liking that idea.

 

[UGA2016]

I have been following the developments of the Eddie Van Hoof debacle and cannot understand why BG published the statement they did. It was incredibley ambiguous and didn't give any clear indication as to what the misconduct issues were involving Van Hoof. This was followed up shortly after with a statement from Van Hoof saying he was shocked and saddened by his dismissal then a further article yesterday suggesting Van Hoof may take legal action regarding BG's decision due to amongst other things a lack of transparency. He also cites his criticism of the contracts and support for the athletes as the catalyst for the enquiry that led to his dismissal. These events bring us back the question posed by the OP 'so what is going on with BG?'