Coaches Stretching homework?

[eucoach]

About half of the kids I coach have very good flexibility (oversplits on both sides, etc.) while the other half have less than adequate flexibility (splits on the good side, not quite on the floor on the bad side). The ones who have good flexibility really try to follow directions and push themselves during flexibility training while the others always kind of take the easy way out. I always tell them to work on their flexibility at home but I'm pretty sure the only ones who actually stretch are the ones who have good flexiblity.

Now....I'm pretty unhappy with that situation and thought of implementing a new rule. 30 min stretch at the end of each practice, the ones who are able to fulfil my flexibility requirements do 20 min of trampoline and only 10 min of stretching.

Do any of you use such"incentives" to get your gymnasts to improve? Any experience with that? The thing is, I definitely don't want the girls to think they are being punished.....

 

[Gymishome]

You know, just because they don't have as much flexibility as you'd like, doesn't mean they're not trying. I mean I'm sure some kids really don't care but others may be the more muscley (is that even a word?..) type and it's a lot harder for them. Alicia Sacramone wasn't crazy flexible, and she couldn't do oversplits, she used her muscles not as much as flexibility to get the 180 in her leaps and jumps

 

[eucoach]

Believe me, I've been coaching long enough to know when a kid is not trying and cheating/taking the easy way out in certain exercises. They are the same ones who try to cheat/not work at higher intensity during conditioning and active flexibility. However, I can easily make them do the required number of repetitions or make them repeat an exercise if I'm not happy with that.
Also, Alicia Sacramone definitely had her oversplits...as did Shawn Johson. Oversplits from a 5-10 inch mat are neither an unreasonable nor unachievable thing for competitive gymnasts who are training at or for the optional levels.

 

[raenndrops]

I know our girls would see that as punishment. There are some girls that are naturally flexible. Others are not. My gymmies DO stretch and work on their splits at home. On a good day, they can do their good leg splits all the way down and their bad leg is 3-4 inches away. On a bad day (sometimes a day that followed a night of "growing pains"), they are lucky if their good leg split is within 2 inches... and don't even ask about that bad leg split .
What our gym does is give the girls a workout sheet at the beginning of the week. It includes flexibility stuff. If they do it at home, they have to have a parent sign off on it (or they have to video it for the coach). The coaches have figured out which parents will lie on it and which won't. There are 2 copies of the sheet and each girl gets the appropriate version.
When in doubt, they get the video copy one... It has a couple lines before where the gymnast signs that she completed the work...
Did you complete any of this work at home? ___YES ___ NO ... If yes, answer below.
Are you prepared to show the coach your VIDEO proof of completion? ___ YES ___ NO ... If no, do not turn this sheet in until you have proof of completion.

That last part means "do it here so we can see that you did it."

 

[gymdog]

Well, I'm not sure that system would work for me because some of my kids can easily meet an arbitrary set of goals like both oversplits because they're so flexible, while others try and can't do it. I guess you would have to make everyone individualized goals.

It sounds like it may be falling neatly along certain lines so maybe it works for you, I just know for me it doesn't fall along those lines necessarily. I would rather spend 30min doing kicks and other conditioning stressing active flexibility.

 

[gymdog]

Also, I'm just linking to this blog because of the pictures, not the commentary, but here's Alicia in left leg floor splits:

http://getagripgymblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/terrible-tuesdays-tough-splits.html?m=1

You could find pictures of Shawn not all the way down in right over splits. Close, but not all the way. Structurally she is not built for that. Trying to force a kind of flexibility that isn't there can cause more problems than it solves.

This is like the thread where people didn't like Dunno's answer that some high level gymnasts in this country can't do certain physical abilities but can still make national teams here. It's true.

 

[iwannacoach]

I'd say that the kids who are as flexible as you'd like are "wasting their time" while spending 30 minutes on flexibility, and that 10 minutes is enough to maintain their flexibilty, for the most part. The girls who aren't so flexible need the extra 20 minutes to make whatever progress they can. It seems very appropriate to have the flexible kids work on something other than relaxing in over splits while you work individually with those who need a little one on one.

I'll also agree that it's possible to be among the best in the world with just enough flexibility to "get by" with, but think limits are imposed in terms of skill selection for kids with borderline range of motion. So in the sense that some is good and more is better, there are weak kids that should work at getting stronger, and there are tight kids that should work hard at flexibility...... to a point.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

More flex for those who need it sounds like a good goal. Who, when and how much is the art.

Jumping up and joining the chorus for "just enough flexibility": Flexibility at the end of a complete practice is valuable when it works expanding the "needed" range. Active flexibility is, IMO, better worked during the practice before the athlete is fatigued and execution is compromised. By time (minutes) I work much, much more active flexibility during any given practice. I have a couple of athletes who are close to full splits, work hard at them and yet execute full 180' twisting switch jumps on BB. The active flex and technique assist certainly. The potential would be expanded by more range of flexibility. I am happy and quite satisfied with their current skills given today's limits.

SBG -

 

[gymdog]

I'd say that the kids who are as flexible as you'd like are "wasting their time" while spending 30 minutes on flexibility, and that 10 minutes is enough to maintain their flexibilty, for the most part. The girls who aren't so flexible need the extra 20 minutes to make whatever progress they can. It seems very appropriate to have the flexible kids work on something other than relaxing in over splits while you work individually with those who need a little one on one.

I'll also agree that it's possible to be among the best in the world with just enough flexibility to "get by" with, but think limits are imposed in terms of skill selection for kids with borderline range of motion. So in the sense that some is good and more is better, there are weak kids that should work at getting stronger, and there are tight kids that should work hard at flexibility...... to a point.

Of course, we're still talking about people who are more flexible than 99% of the population and the majority of people participating in gymnastics, and the stronger you are the easier it is to improve your flexibility to a workable point. But being down in 10" in over splits seems unreasonable to me. 3-4" maybe. But as you can see with the pic of Alicia above it's the back side of the split, IT band and hip flexor a that are the bigger problem for most than the hamstring hyper extension.

 

[iwannacoach]

Also, I'm just linking to this blog because of the pictures, not the commentary, but here's Alicia in left leg floor splits:

http://getagripgymblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/terrible-tuesdays-tough-splits.html?m=1

Some of the "deficiency" of Alicia's split as seen in the picture can be attributed to the strict application of Marta's philosophy regarding alignment and square in the split position. The contrast pic, intended to serve as an example of what can/should be done, shows a group of kids working over splits in a hybrid position I'll call friede splits...... if you know what I mean. If not..... ask yourself why the girl closest to the camera has to use her arms just to keep her shoulder square to her front leg. She probably has a decent 180 in the strict alignment shown by Alicia and the other big dogs, but not so much the over split she appears to do.

 

[gymdog]

Exactly so...just going higher and higher in over splits isn't really the point. But I don't think the first picture shows any unusual amount of alignment particularly for this level of gymnastics. She just has tight hips and therefore can't press that part of her leg down without twisting her hips.

Anyway , google image search it and you'll see her in a poorly aligned right split that really isn't flat either, but it's partially how her legs just are. The point isn't to knock Alicia, who's an amazing gymnast, it's just to point out I guarantee she can't do 10" over splits and she's amazing.

 

[eucoach]

Thanks for everyone's opinions.
Sth I didn't mention is that my gymnasts have all been able to do pretty good oversplits at some point or another. I spend a lot more time on stretching during summer training when we can train more hours. I wouldn't expect sth from a gymnast that seems to be structurally impossible. I reduced the amount of stretching time during practice because most of the girls put a lot of effort into the exercises. However, as I mentioned before, only half of the group has been able to maintain their flexibility. Funnily enough, they are also stronger than the less flexible ones, so it really wouldn't make sense to make them do conditioning while the others are stretching.
I let the girls know of my 30 min of stretching or 20 min tramp/10 min stretch plan and I'll see how it goes.