Parents Strong compulsory vs. strong optionals

[sce]

Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.

I imagine very few kids make it out of compulsories with that requirement! An average of 38 is really high.

 

[sce]

OK, I had to look. At our state compulsory meet last year there were only 5 level 3's that scored above 38. 4 level 4's and only 1 level 5. In the whole state.

Obviously we're not a powerhouse state. Thank God our gym doesn't require 38. Dd would have been driven out of the sport.

Our gym is very established but has gone through a big transition over the last few years and we are rebuilding our program. Right now people would say we are strong on compulsories but weak in optionals. If you know the story from the inside, you would just know that it takes time to build a strong optional team, and that's what we're working on by having strong compulsories that will eventually become optionals.

I am in a large higher scorngs tate and we only ahd 8 level 5s score 38 or higher at states. Kids scoring lower than that were from some very strong gyms, gyms with successful optional, TOPs, Hopes and sometimes elite gymnasts.

 

[tpMom]

OK, I had to look. At our state compulsory meet last year there were only 5 level 3's that scored above 38. 4 level 4's and only 1 level 5. In the whole state.

Obviously we're not a powerhouse state. Thank God our gym doesn't require 38. Dd would have been driven out of the sport.

Our gym is very established but has gone through a big transition over the last few years and we are rebuilding our program. Right now people would say we are strong on compulsories but weak in optionals. If you know the story from the inside, you would just know that it takes time to build a strong optional team, and that's what we're working on by having strong compulsories that will eventually become optionals.

I checked our state's USAG and last year at state nobody in compulsories scored a 9.8. There were a handful of gymnasts who scored 9.7s but I don't think a single kid in this state would have moved up according to the 9.8 average standard!

 

[Sasha]

My DD's first gym was one of the "Strong compulsories; weak optionals" flavor. Their model was 8 months of 95% drilling routines, and effectively only 4 months of training for the next level. Needless to say, very few gymnasts got all their skills perfected in that 4 months so many, many gymnasts repeated levels.

For example, after competing level 5, athletes had barely been in a strap bar (if at all), so there were zero athletes ready for level 7 with giants. So they would be stuck at level 6, often for 2 years. Many would start to give up at this point, often with puberty in full bloom by now, and move to Xcel.

Contrast this to my DD's current gym, where you start strap bars drills around level 3, so by the time you are competing Level 5, most athletes have or are getting close to compete-able giants and can go straight into L7.

Another example is the way the gym trained FHS (vault and floor), which we were later told trained my DD for compulsory success, but was the 'wrong' way to teach toward translating into optional skills. Something about being too stretched out to look good as standalone skills (in compulsory routines), rather than shorter & springier so that you can connect skills. My DD is now re-learning FHS as she struggles to connect front tumbling.

Since we left that gym, they have some new coaches who are doing a better job balancing compulsory success with drills to prepare for optionals. But my DD did suffer some setbacks with that model in service of the fistfuls of podium medals in L3-4.

 

[ProvB]

An average of 38? With how many meets? So not just 38 at least once? Repeating compulsory to perfection seems short sighted, especially if they have no plans for the gymmies beyond that. There is a lot more to being a good gymnast than perfect cumpolsory scores. I’ve read over and over again on here about kids who were maybe just okay in compulsory but took off once they reached optionals.

JO2s are competing 8 meets this year. We have a “38 club” where they post the gymnasts name on a list in the gym lobby. More than half of the girls got on the list last year. (This is my dd’s first year at this gym). My dd is competing JO2 this season but several girls in her group are competing JO1 again even though they are training 2/3 because their JO2 routines are not “clean” enough. The explanation we’ve been given for the move-up requirement is that they want the girls to feel successful, rather than pushing them to compete next level and have them place low. There is also a huge focus on “letting kids be kids” at this stage, so missing training for birthday parties or family get togethers is not only allowed, but encouraged. They don’t want them burning out.

 

[strawberries]

Competing L1 and L2 is nothing but a moneymaker and in no way helpful for gymnastics. I guess you could argue the money helps the upper level team have better equipment.

Repeating L1...I have no words

 

[ProvB]

Competing L1 and L2 is nothing but a moneymaker and in no way helpful for gymnastics. I guess you could argue the money helps the upper level team have better equipment.

Repeating L1...I have no words

And the L1s at our current gym only compete one meet a season! We were at another gym last year but my DD competed 6 meets in L1. It is pretty common around here to compete L1, and the gyms that don’t definitely start competing at L2. L3 has a huge number of gymnasts in our area so maybe they feel that entering competition at L3 would be a disadvantage. We left my daughters first gym because they require day training starting at JO1! IMO, you’d have to be crazy to pull a kindergartener or 1st grader out of school at noon three days a week.

 

[sce]

JO2s are competing 8 meets this year. We have a “38 club” where they post the gymnasts name on a list in the gym lobby. More than half of the girls got on the list last year. (This is my dd’s first year at this gym). My dd is competing JO2 this season but several girls in her group are competing JO1 again even though they are training 2/3 because their JO2 routines are not “clean” enough. The explanation we’ve been given for the move-up requirement is that they want the girls to feel successful, rather than pushing them to compete next level and have them place low. There is also a huge focus on “letting kids be kids” at this stage, so missing training for birthday parties or family get togethers is not only allowed, but encouraged. They don’t want them burning out.

That is crazy, level 1 and 2 are introductory and pretty basic, the cleaning can happen even as they advance to level 3. This is a recipe for burning kids out before they make it out of compulsories.

 

[SMH]

And the L1s at our current gym only compete one meet a season! We were at another gym last year but my DD competed 6 meets in L1. It is pretty common around here to compete L1, and the gyms that don’t definitely start competing at L2. L3 has a huge number of gymnasts in our area so maybe they feel that entering competition at L3 would be a disadvantage. We left my daughters first gym because they require day training starting at JO1! IMO, you’d have to be crazy to pull a kindergartener or 1st grader out of school at noon three days a week.

I just watched the level 1 floor routine- I can’t even imagine how mind numbingly boring it must be to drill those skills 2 years in a row for a kid with any gymnastics talent. Holy cow.

I do agree with you that pulling a 5 yr old out of school to train level 1 seems a little much.

JO2s are competing 8 meets this year. We have a “38 club” where they post the gymnasts name on a list in the gym lobby. More than half of the girls got on the list last year. (This is my dd’s first year at this gym). My dd is competing JO2 this season but several girls in her group are competing JO1 again even though they are training 2/3 because their JO2 routines are not “clean” enough. The explanation we’ve been given for the move-up requirement is that they want the girls to feel successful, rather than pushing them to compete next level and have them place low. There is also a huge focus on “letting kids be kids” at this stage, so missing training for birthday parties or family get togethers is not only allowed, but encouraged. They don’t want them burning out.

My kiddos gym is also really big on the smaller kids especially having ‘outside of the gym’ time. Our head coach was a competitive gymnast who received a full scholarship for gymnastics but turned it down because she was so burnt out by the time she graduated.
They do low hours in 3 and 4, repeating is not abnormal, then the hours and commitment ramp up at 5/6. But when they do repeat, they also uptrain and are ready for the next level.

 

[ProvB]

That is crazy, level 1 and 2 are introductory and pretty basic, the cleaning can happen even as they advance to level 3. This is a recipe for burning kids out before they make it out of compulsories.

I agree in the sense I’m concerned that my daughter will be bored before she reaches L4.

We had to switch gyms in June and “shopped around” at all of the gyms within reasonable driving distance. My DD was just finishing her first season competing (JO1). Gym A wanted her at 16 hours a week and to get her competing L3, possibly 4 in 6 months. Gym B wanted her at 12 hours a week for L3, possibly 4, with day training 3 of the 4 days. Gym C wanted her at 9 hours and competing L2 cleanly. So we ended up at Gym C, because I felt it was less likely to burn her out. She just turned 7 in July.

 

[LindyHopper]

We have a “38 club” where they post the gymnasts name on a list in the gym lobby.

How does one get into the 38 Club? Scoring 38 once? That's cool. An average of 38 is a totally different animal.

 

[LJL07]

And the L1s at our current gym only compete one meet a season! We were at another gym last year but my DD competed 6 meets in L1. It is pretty common around here to compete L1, and the gyms that don’t definitely start competing at L2. L3 has a huge number of gymnasts in our area so maybe they feel that entering competition at L3 would be a disadvantage. We left my daughters first gym because they require day training starting at JO1! IMO, you’d have to be crazy to pull a kindergartener or 1st grader out of school at noon three days a week.

Our gym was and is doing that same nonsense. Encouraging kids to check out of school for day training at level 1&2. It is a total racket. I can look at half of these kids and tell very few will make it to optionals. Being a good level 1 or 2 is in no way reflective of long term gymnastics potential. These parents are completely snowed. Very painful to watch. But we are also a state with very weak optional level gymnastics so I guess these level 1s and 2s are their bread and butter.

 

[amiandjim]

Our gym was and is doing that same nonsense. Encouraging kids to check out of school for day training at level 1&2. It is a total racket. I can look at half of these kids and tell very few will make it to optionals. Being a good level 1 or 2 is in no way reflective of long term gymnastics potential. These parents are completely snowed. Very painful to watch. But we are also a state with very weak optional level gymnastics so I guess these level 1s and 2s are their bread and butter.

That’s awful!!!

 

[lilmisssunshine]

My son's first year, his team was really killing it. First place team at almost every competition. Then we got to this one competition. I recognized some parents wearing gear from the gym that got first place team at states last year, so I started chatting them up.
One of them mentioned that her son was state champion the year before. At the time, I was all, "Wow, good for him!" But then that team crushed our boys. And I started thinking, "Wait a minute...if her kid was state champion last year, why on earth is he repeating a level this year?" Because I'm obsessive, I cross-referenced the names of the kids at the meet we were at with the results of the state championship from the previous year. Sure enough, almost every kid on that team was repeating and had been top 3 in the state the year before. The following year, our boys had moved up a level, but all the kids from that other gym were *still* competing at that introductory level.
It's disgusting, and I hate that it's technically not cheating...but c'mon...that's cheating. And not fair to the boys either.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Competing L1 and L2 is nothing but a moneymaker and in no way helpful for gymnastics. I guess you could argue the money helps the upper level team have better equipment.

This is not necessarily true. It is very competitive in our state. Having a child on these levels, I see the discipline she's learned and the confidence she's gained. Plus, they learn the basics very well and get to uptrain. They also have reasonable training hours and they love competing.

 

[LGnyc]

Our gym was and is doing that same nonsense. Encouraging kids to check out of school for day training at level 1&2. It is a total racket. I can look at half of these kids and tell very few will make it to optionals. Being a good level 1 or 2 is in no way reflective of long term gymnastics potential. These parents are completely snowed. Very painful to watch. But we are also a state with very weak optional level gymnastics so I guess these level 1s and 2s are their bread and butter.

Kinda reminds me of that scene in Stick It, where the coach is clearly lying to the mother to get her money even when the girl isn't getting anywhere. This is even worse, because a) really happening and b) so very young. What a waste of time and money and energy for these families.

 

[reluctant]

This is not necessarily true. It is very competitive in our state. Having a child on these levels, I see the discipline she's learned and the confidence she's gained. Plus, they learn the basics very well and get to uptrain. They also have reasonable training hours and they love competing.

My daughter has competed 1,2,3,4 and 5. She'll finally go to 7 next year.

 

[sce]

My daughter has competed 1,2,3,4 and 5. She'll finally go to 7 next year.

How old is she?

 

[amiandjim]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with competing level 1-2, BUT repeating level 1 or 2 bc a girl doesn’t score 38 is insane!!

 

[reluctant]

How old is she?

11. She has scored well all along, but I'm ready for optionals. She's not my only gymnast so I know how it all goes.