Coaches Supporting Back Somersault Technique

[SXS524]

I'm currently working towards my level 2 women's artistic coaching qualification (UK) and one of the skills on the syllabus is back somersault. I'm fairly new to spotting these and was wondering what technique people used? My mentor taught me to support with one arm going round the gymnasts back and then the other arm going round to catch the gymnasts stomach (shown here at 12.14 How To Back Tuck - YouTube). I can see its a good way to make sure the gymnast doesn't fall at the end and doesn't require us coaches to swap hands to catch at the end. However I find it quite hard to give the gymnasts height supporting that way, not sure whether I just need more practice or whether it is quite difficult to do! I noticed my old coach (not my mentor) supports by having one hand on the gymnasts back and the other on the gymnasts thigh- this strikes me as easier but my mentor reckoned that wasn't as safe a way to spot?!
So just wonder what the general consensus was? Or does anyone else have any other techniques?

Additional note: I'm a 5ft2 female coach so its quite hard for me to just flip gymnasts over especially if they're not really tiny

 

[Mustanggal99]

I've spotted that way and also find it difficult to get the height. I spot hand on lower back and hand on thighs I'm able to keep my hand on the back throughout for safety. I'm the same way with size and I find it easier to spot this way.

 

[BlairBob]

You are talking about a back somersault in the air, correct?

1. You can have them jump off a panel mat or block.

2. I generally can spot these with a bump and catch where I catch their upper arm near the shoulder but I will also catch the second hand on the stomach as they pass through inversion.

3. I think I have done lower back and hamstring/back of thigh but that is typically for a back handspring rather than standing back flip. I could see using it for more push though.

4. One of the spotting videos I have somewhere actually had them practicing with a gymnastics doll to practice the catching. I believe it was weighted not as heavy as a small child but wasn't just a stuffed plush toy.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you're not supposed to do the "height" for them. that's the athletes job.

and the way he is spotting is fine, but the coach can wear out their back and bicep tendon because you end up cross armed when the athlete lands. you can also spot it like a back handspring. it's easier on the coachand the athlete must do most of the work...which is what you want. 1 hand on the lower back and 1 hand on the back of the thigh. both work fine.

 

[BlairBob]

You have to careful regarding the bicep tendons. It's actually the most catastrophic injury I have heard occurring regarding most coach injuries. Torn bicep tendons during spotting, especially safety spotting.

 

[CoachGoofy]

I do one hand on low back, one on thigh, move thigh hand around to stomach if they like to forget their feet. I have worked with people who do a hand on the back, a hand on the stomach crisscrossed madness and it's not a viable technique for all coaches-we have a number of kids who are not jumping high enough if that technique is working, and the whole "grab on to coachlady" tendency is...no. Ow. (I am also a smallish coach).

We also do a bunch of drills on initiating the tuck with the set and all that before we even think about flipping it, so the hand on the lower back is often more psychological than anything else

 

[CoachTodd]

You have to careful regarding the bicep tendons. It's actually the most catastrophic injury I have heard occurring regarding most coach injuries. Torn bicep tendons during spotting, especially safety spotting.

I spot both ways depending on the physical size of the kid. I have some that are quite large. I've aggravated my bicep tendon and pulled the bicep via the bump and catch method just because the kid decided to go down instead of up. with the arm behind the back method and a panel mat, I can get my shoulder under the bigger kids if needed to keep my arms intact.

 

[BlairBob]

Yep, I would prefer to just use a panel mat or block.

If I have to do MOST of the work, it's probably not something they should be working very seriously. Maybe for fun, to get a feeling, but I'm not going to damage myself on something that is beyond them. It sucks but oh well.

 

[stargazer]

A friend of mine who is a coach asked me to be his guinea pig for demonstrating spotting back tucks, (I can't do them perfectly on my own but I'm not going to kill myself either), and he used two methods. He asked me do my back tuck as I normally do it, and used the bump and catch method, with a hand on my back and one on my thigh to help with rotation. Then he asked me to do a bad one, and to barely jump. For this one he used the criss-cross hands method, because he said it gave him more control over my body, and he lifted me up and flipped me around no problem. This is no small feat either, I'm 5'3" and 120 pounds, and while he's strong he's not that much bigger than me.

What I gathered from this little demo is that if the athlete needs a bit of help with height or rotation, or a "psychological" spot, then go with the bump and catch method because it's easier and allows the athlete to feel the skill better as they will do it mostly by themselves. If the athlete needs a heavy spot or is bigger, go with the criss-cross hands method. I imagine this doesn't work for anybody, but I was very surprised at how well controlled my badly-executed-on-purpose back tuck was with the criss-cross hand spot.

But yes I agree with the previous posters that if the athlete needs a heavy spot they should probably be spending most of their time on drills anyways.

 

[fuzi]

Reading through this thread made me think about I spot, and I realized that I don't have one set spotting method, but rather that it varies according to which gymnast I am spotting. Anyone else do the same?

 

[CoachGoofy]

If they need a criss cross spot, they're not doing the skill yet. At least not with just me. Not gunna happen. We'll do more drills (funny thing, one of my littles yesterday decided she understood a back tuck on trampoline from drills, cuz 7 year olds are nuts) so they can do the skill instead of playing "coach does all the skills for susie".

 

[SXS524]

Wow, thanks for all the responses Sounds pretty mixed! I got the impression from my mentor that using the back and thigh method was unsafe but sounds like if you do it correctly/with the right gymnasts it can be okay Think I'll try them both out and practice! and agreed that the more drills beforehand the better! On that note anyone got any good drills? The ones I know of are the jump back to candlestick/ shoulders onto a stack of mats, practicing the jump back by supporting the gymnast through a backwards tuck jump (holding the shoulders),backward roll off a block, any other ideas ?

 

[BlairBob]

Those are the big two besides doing it in a harness or a back pullover on tramp. Some might use a jumping skin the cat on rings ( I used that ) but to be honest I'm not sure it's the greatest drill.

 

[hawaii_gymnast]

I normally go with the back and hamstring method, but I am pretty new to spotting. I have played around with another method that a coach at my gym taught me which is basically all she used which I will try to explain.
One hand on athletes stomach and one hand on the back, but not crossed. Then to spot (normally from another skill), get hand on stomach as soon as possible, put other hand on the back and help a little with the lift if they need it and turn hands backwards, so you end up crossed. One flip is almost over, as in your arms can't turn anymore switch hands back to original starting position.
I don't know if that was very clear, but have anyone seen or tried this one before, what do you think?

 

[CoachGoofy]

I do a variant of the backwards tuck jump/jump back to candle since I have a double mini (and thus a great place to position the kids at the perfect height for said drill!)

I stand directly behind them, on the double mini landing mat. They look the other way, as if they were doing a dismount back tuck (so I am down a couple feet). I start out holding their shoulders, they bounce 3 times with arms up and then pull their knees up. We do this a bunch of times, each time I want them to initiate hip curl a little more--sometimes I use a hand to help them with this, & once they start really curling, if they're small enough I do one hand under shoulders, one under low back so they can feel where they got to.

Most of my preteam kids do their first ever completed spotted back tuck off the double mini, since "hey look, that was a little more than 1/4 a flip, and i was in your way! Let's try one!" gets them all excited.

 

[wordsmith]

I don't have one set spotting method, but rather that it varies according to which gymnast I am spotting. Anyone else do the same?

Yes, quite often. My spotting techniques seem to vary and adapt according to the needs at the moment and the characteristics of who I am spotting.

I have played around with another method that a coach at my gym taught me which is basically all she used which I will try to explain.
One hand on athletes stomach and one hand on the back, but not crossed. Then to spot (normally from another skill), get hand on stomach as soon as possible, put other hand on the back and help a little with the lift if they need it and turn hands backwards, so you end up crossed. One flip is almost over, as in your arms can't turn anymore switch hands back to original starting position.
I don't know if that was very clear, but have anyone seen or tried this one before, what do you think?

If I understood you correctly, I'll reply with, "Yes I have."

I sometimes do this with certain kids on standing back tucks or on trampoline; but more commonly when spotting a tumbling pass that ends in back tuck or back layout:

If I'm standing on the left side, my right will spot on the back and my left hand will go on the stomach. If the gymnast is small, sometimes I'll spot the set from this position, rather than stand behind.

On the salto itself, my hands never really leave the gymnast (using this technique). I could sorta bump and catch on the way around; but what I like about this particular method is that I can track and maintain constant control of the gymnast all the way to the landing. Essentially, it's like the gymnast is doing a back hip circle around my left arm, because I keep it inserted; only my right hand will move out of the way briefly as the gymnast gets inverted- then back in. When the gymnast is right-side up again upon landing, both hands are right back where they started- on stomach and back.

Wow, thanks for all the responses Sounds pretty mixed! I got the impression from my mentor that using the back and thigh method was unsafe but sounds like if you do it correctly/with the right gymnasts it can be okay

Spotting is a real art. I love it!

Main thing is the gymnast's safety and your safety. So just really know your physical limitations while going through the process of what feels right to you, in spotting different sized athletes, different levels of progress, and unique quirks of each athlete.

Also, if you're spotting a certain skill for the first time and figuring out how to coordinate the hands, try working it out first with a small athlete that you know you can physically handle; or, as BlairBob mentioned, use a toy doll that's like a small child that can simulate a body.

On that note anyone got any good drills? The ones I know of are the jump back to candlestick/ shoulders onto a stack of mats, practicing the jump back by supporting the gymnast through a backwards tuck jump (holding the shoulders),backward roll off a block, any other ideas ?

Here's one I actually stumbled across by accident earlier today that I thought was interesting:

[video=youtube;_owFWwIY5ZA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_owFWwIY5ZA[/video]