Parents The dreaded “not moving up” conversation

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I don’t think the real issue here is the specific level placement for next season. The issue is whether OP is on board with the gym’s general philosophy, which appears to include a lack of uptraining during the competitive season, a preference for very high scores in compulsories, and a rigid approach to move-up decisions. As a parent, all of this would give me pause.

This is how our gym operates too and it can be very, very frustrating. It also can kill a gymnast's motivation faster than anything when they're uptraining all summer, get new skills, get excited about them but the skills maybe are not ready to score high, and then the kid has to back track to "easy" skills simply to perfect them for the competitive season. My daughter is experiencing something similar, competed level 3 and scored all in the 9s, can do most of the L4 skills already (we don't compete for 6 month) but is being told she's is repeating L3 unless she has an amazing summer of getting the skills at a high level to compete (our area is super competitive unfortunately). We're not happy about it but we're staying at the gym because my kid is happy overall and the gym has a good optional program (if we can get there). All of this to say, if you believe the gym has good coaching overall, has strong upper level gymnasts, and may be open to uptraining during the season with your daughter to at least keep the newer skills, then just stay there. As others have said, she hasn't even competed yet so give her a year to see how she likes it.
 
I guess I’m wanting someone with experience to tell me that it’s okay to sandbag in level 3 and it will be okay in the end, or that it’s a total waste of a year and not worth it, no matter what. I need a crystal ball.

If she’s never competed before, then it’s not necessarily sandbagging unless you know she’s going to be scoring 38+ all season. Having all of your skills is much different than executing them cleanly. DD just finished up her third competitive season, and while I have learned a tremendous amount, I still feel like I know very little. I know that what looks good to me, can still have lots of deductions that I missed because I don’t know all the possible deductions. I could finally start to guess a range on beam, but I have little hope of ever understanding vault. If the gym has a healthy environment and your daughter is safe, have some faith in the coaches’ decision. If they have a successful program, they probably know what they are doing and have reasons for it. She is young and has plenty of time. Especially if she hasn’t competed before, I would stay a season and let her compete with the gym. The first meet season is usually very eye opening.
 
This is long :)

My daughter was on a pre level 4 team and our gym has a very strict testing policy for moving up. She was missing some of the skills for 4 during testing and the head coach decided she will be competing 3 not 4 as planned. Fine, except she was just coming off an injury during testing and now that it’s been a few weeks she has all her skills and they are looking really good (not a gymnast but look good to me). we are still four months out from competition season starting, too, which feels like a lot of time to me to clean up anything not perfect.

my daughter is devastated. She worked so hard to catch up after her injury and I hate that her hard work won’t be rewarded. I don’t even know how to explain hard work usually pays off just not this time. On top of that her hours will be decreasing (from 11 to 8) and she’s worried that she’ll lose her skills if she has to focus on level 3, which she will have to spend all summer learning. They said there will be no uptraining til after season is over and if we want to get privates to keep up her skills we can. (Which seems crazy to me).

I’ve spoken to the coach and seems like the decision is final. We did trials at two other gyms in the area who both want to put her on their level 4 teams. She worked out at these other gyms a few times and loves them both. Problem is I don’t really want to switch gyms and they are both far and not as good and super inconvenient, time wise. I also don’t want to be a gym hopper (current gym is already our second gym).

Given all this my question is - is it crazy to compete level 3 if you have all level 4 skills? Is that a common thing to compete a level lower? Will she be somehow more prepared for 4 next year by doing 3? I do see some advantages - don’t have to switch gyms, lower hours so she can do other things, maybe better chance at scoring better (although recall she never learned level 3), so not sure about that one.

What should I do?!
How old is she? If she’s 6-7-8, I’d say stick it out one more year. That’s so tough!!! Sounds similar to how our gym is, and some girls have quit because they’ve gotten bored. BUT I would seriously steer the course for now. I would do private’s consistently. Here’s one thing to consider...she’ll totally rock it out this upcoming season! That’s amazing for confidence and will set her up for amazing level 4. It goes by so quickly. I wouldn’t switch gyms especially if yours is best in area. Hang in there...this is a tough time of year, and I’m glad we have this community to go to for support!
 
Every response has been super helpful, I can't thank this forum enough. To answer some questions - I don't know if the reason they want her to do 3 has to do with her injury I just know she didn't have the skills during testing and she does now. Ex. she hadn't vaulted while she was in a boot for 6 weeks and even the week or two after (which was right before testing) and could barely get over the table. She worked a lot on it and it looks pretty good to me.

Like some of you said, it's extremely possible that even though she has the skills maybe they are not well executed and I just can't see that. Everyone always says her form is good but I have no idea. My daughter has been so stressed over this whole thing, and the coach mentioned wanting her to gain confidence this year so I'm thinking that is part of it also? I'm wildly speculating at this point.

I'm 99% sure we wont do any of the far away gyms. You've all made me confident enough that L3 could be good for her, even if it's super annoying (if in fact, she shouldn't be there) and I don't fully believe in the gym right now.

New info: I talked to the L3 coach and she 100% agreed dd should not do L3. She sees that she has the skills now and that she worked so hard to get them. But she also said "the process is the process" and because she didn't have everything during testing and she can't really override the HC but she'll talk to them and see if we can come up with some solution. No idea what that means and the HC seems pretty deadset on my dd doing 3, so we shall see!! I'll keep everyone posted if anyone cares lol
 
I worry she wouldn’t even make the l3 team there because she hasn’t learned the bars yet. But long term I could see is moving there, especially after this experience.
I was just re-reading the posts and missed this part! Based on this, I would definitely keep her in level 3. Level 3 it up and kick some butt, and go tryout at the really good gym when she's ready for level 4...especially if she's killing it as a level 3 and does have the opportunity to "sandbag". Most importantly, if SHE absolutely has long term ambitions of going elite or NCAA (or beyond...it is possible), then talk to her about rocking it out and trying out for the program that's going to push her the most NEXT year. If she has an amazing L3 year in 19/20, she'll have a super solid shot at making what sounds like an amazing JO gym!

Truth be told, If she doesn't have bars, she doesn't have the foundation to really master level 4 skills in time for competitive season. Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, there's no way most gyms would move her up to level 4 if she didn't have bars. Bars was a huge indicator for core and upper body strength. As mothers, our daughters stand out to us. Couple that with what you know about them (their love of the sport and their drive) they'll always look amazing. That's why objective opinions are so crucial! But if she can't get bars (as of now) and hasn't been able to successfully vault without piking (or getting over), she's a level 3. Otherwise, if she does compete L4, she'll most likely repeat it AND will have even more of a taste for JO (vs. pre-team) and be even more frustrated, especially after ending L3 season injured. She deserves to feel awesome about her journey and set her up for confidence and success!

Stick it out...you have NOTHING but time!
 
I was just re-reading the posts and missed this part! Based on this, I would definitely keep her in level 3. Level 3 it up and kick some butt, and go tryout at the really good gym when she's ready for level 4...especially if she's killing it as a level 3 and does have the opportunity to "sandbag". Most importantly, if SHE absolutely has long term ambitions of going elite or NCAA (or beyond...it is possible), then talk to her about rocking it out and trying out for the program that's going to push her the most NEXT year. If she has an amazing L3 year in 19/20, she'll have a super solid shot at making what sounds like an amazing JO gym!

Truth be told, If she doesn't have bars, she doesn't have the foundation to really master level 4 skills in time for competitive season. Unless I'm reading something incorrectly, there's no way most gyms would move her up to level 4 if she didn't have bars. Bars was a huge indicator for core and upper body strength. As mothers, our daughters stand out to us. Couple that with what you know about them (their love of the sport and their drive) they'll always look amazing. That's why objective opinions are so crucial! But if she can't get bars (as of now) and hasn't been able to successfully vault without piking (or getting over), she's a level 3. Otherwise, if she does compete L4, she'll most likely repeat it AND will have even more of a taste for JO (vs. pre-team) and be even more frustrated, especially after ending L3 season injured. She deserves to feel awesome about her journey and set her up for confidence and success!

Stick it out...you have NOTHING but time!
I think she meant that she hasn't learned the LEVEL 3 Bars ... so no Mill Circle, etc.
 
A gym with such stringent move-up requirements would be a "no-go" for my DD who suffers from anxiety. Knowing that a level decision for the whole year would be made based solely on her performance on one day would put her over the edge. But, we don't have elite or college aspirations. We just finished level 4 and I don't think the fact that she did level 3 made any difference. If my daughter had a decent kip (and all her other skills), I wouldn't want to waste time and money doing level 3 (especially the dreaded mill circle and shoot through on bars.) To me it is concerning that coach thinks she should do 4 but owner isn't willing to listen (especially when injury was a factor).
 
A gym with such stringent move-up requirements would be a "no-go" for my DD who suffers from anxiety. Knowing that a level decision for the whole year would be made based solely on her performance on one day would put her over the edge. But, we don't have elite or college aspirations. We just finished level 4 and I don't think the fact that she did level 3 made any difference. If my daughter had a decent kip (and all her other skills), I wouldn't want to waste time and money doing level 3 (especially the dreaded mill circle and shoot through on bars.) To me it is concerning that coach thinks she should do 4 but owner isn't willing to listen (especially when injury was a factor).
It’s a tough time of year for sure. I would hope a lot of coaches take into consideration, the whole gymnast they’ve seen for a whole season not just on an evil day. Our gym is strict too but unless you’re coming from another gym, or are preteam L3 trying out for JO L4, there are no days set for evals. The coaches either thumbs up or staying put after the summer training months are over. I would hope the girls coach would at least wait and see what happens over summer but it sounds like L3 is not a bad idea at all.
 
I would still take her for an evaluation at the other good gym. (You did say it’s not as far away as the other two, right?). I would not be happy knowing that her coach thinks she should be L4 but that the “process is the process”.
 
In other words - don’t be intimidated by your perceptions of the other gym. You’ve said a few times that you aren’t sure she’d be invited but you don’t know for sure. May as well explore and if you don’t like them or they are too far away or if they want her to compete L1, at least you explored everything.

(And it’s not the end of the world at all if she stays and does L3 either)
 
I totally agree with trying the gym you eventually want her to go to. From what I have seen, it is better to move sooner rather than later. A couple of girls from our gym are moving to stronger gyms that produce elites. They are all having to repeat level 4 with the first-year level fours because the stronger gyms don't like the way they were taught certain skills. If they had moved before level 4 they never would have had that problem and would probably be moving on right now. They all scored fairly well in level four.
 
In other words - don’t be intimidated by your perceptions of the other gym. You’ve said a few times that you aren’t sure she’d be invited but you don’t know for sure. May as well explore and if you don’t like them or they are too far away or if they want her to compete L1, at least you explored everything.

(And it’s not the end of the world at all if she stays and does L3 either)

My mom really wants us to do this. I just worry if we get her evaluated there and she isn’t good enough for three or four and that’s our one shot. Or is that not how gyms work?
 
My mom really wants us to do this. I just worry if we get her evaluated there and she isn’t good enough for three or four and that’s our one shot. Or is that not how gyms work?
Most likely they would offer her another tryout in a year or so if she tries it now and you decide not to make the move immediately. Definitely worth having her evaluated there.
 
But she wouldn't be repeating ... and if they allow her to go to Level 4, she would never have to learn the Mill Circle. ;)

Yep. Mom said child had ALL level 4 skills, has been told child's form is good, and level 3 coach at her gym says child does not belong in level 3. Assuming these things are true, there is no reason a child should go and do level three just so they can suffer through front hip circles and mill circles for a year while losing their level 4 skills at a gym that does no uptraining.
 
Yep. Mom said child had ALL level 4 skills, has been told child's form is good, and level 3 coach at her gym says child does not belong in level 3. Assuming these things are true, there is no reason a child should go and do level three just so they can suffer through front hip circles and mill circles for a year while losing their level 4 skills at a gym that does no uptraining.

I would seriously like to point our coach to this thread. :) To be fair they do uptraining, but supposedly not until after the season. (is that still up training or is that just training?)
 
I would seriously like to point our coach to this thread. :) To be fair they do uptraining, but supposedly not until after the season. (is that still up training or is that just training?)
That is just training. Uptraining would be, during the season, if they get what they need to for their current level, they get to work on skills or at least drills for skills the next level up.
So our L3s do their L3 assignments and if they "pass," then they get to work drills and skills for Level 4.
 
We were at a gym with virtually no uptraining for three years, and it was SO FRUSTRATING. It was mostly a function of just not enough hours and a facility design that made it near impossible for the coaches to run an efficient practice. For kids who are more skill-driven than medal-driven, it can be a joy-killer.
 

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