WAG TOPs Hopes Elite results - secret?

[Yuenling]

Some will qualify to classics from last years P&G. They also can play with the qualifying score.

Oooh. Can you explain what you mean by play?

The girl from my DD's gym came really close. She'll probably try again in May.

 

[GYM0M]

In the Hopes youngest age group there are many scores in the 4-5 range. What would be the coaching reason to take a young kid, then score in a range that obviously means they are not ready. That's not even taking into account the cost of it all, travel, coaching fees etc. is this just gyms taking advantage ?

I don't think that 'obviously' means they're not ready. It could mean they are not ready on that particular event, or just they had a bad day. My dd is one of these kids. She scored a 4.4 on bars in compulsory, 8.1 in optional. Can she do both bar routines? Yes....on a good day. Did my kid qualify? Nope! Did she waste her or her coaches time? Nope! In her particular case, L9 presents similar struggles & L8 is just not appropriate for her skill level on the other events. She doesn't really fit perfectly into either right now so why not shoot for HOPES and hope for a good day? IMO, there's a lot of grey area in between those black scores and the white paper.

 

[bogwoppit]

Oooh. Can you explain what you mean by play?

The girl from my DD's gym came really close. She'll probably try again in May.

They can lower the qualifying score to allow more girls in.

Many girls "qualify" at the ranch.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Some will qualify to classics from last years P&G. They also can play with the qualifying score.

I did some homework on this...
All but one (who did not compete bars) at last year championships have qualified based on the score, take out a few who will now be senior.

 

[Tigtimes]

GYMOM - sorry if I offended it was not my intention. just curious. Best of luck to you and your DD

 

[Yuenling]

I did some homework on this...
All but one (who did not compete bars) at last year championships have qualified based on the score, take out a few who will now be senior.

How many were at last year's? How many are returning?

 

[Fijiwater]

There are countless stories I've heard where kids weren't ready.... Simone Biles is one of them, couldn't do a cast to handstand correctly or something and never made it to national tops testing, also didn't qualify elite till age 13. One story I know personally a girl struggled with Hopes compulsory bars, went jr elite the next year and ended up 5th in the nation on bars.....
It's sounds like some of you are saying unless you know for certain without a doubt that you are going to qualify, you shouldn't be allowed to try. That is not the spirit of sports. You play to compete and win, you don't always win.

 

[GYM0M]

GYMOM - sorry if I offended it was not my intention. just curious. Best of luck to you and your DD

You didn't offend. No worries!! I just think that there could be lots of factors for a low score. Josc isn't ready on bars, but she is ready on all of the other events so that's just one instance where the scores don't paint the whole picture. In fact, if it wasn't for rookie mistakes and jitters, she would have placed on floor and beam. She placed 3rd in her optional session on vault (HUGE accomplishment for her)! Her compulsory bars score is low because she cannot do those stinking front Giants! I don't remember if she fell on the blind change or not, but I think she did and bc of the front Giants, she didn't get to do the pirouette out of them. So essentially, the front Giants cost her about 3.0 points straight off the top. But her case is just one instance. There could be lots of others. We went to a few sessions, and I don't recall seeing anyone that I thought just shouldn't be there.

 

[Fijiwater]

Then again there are those that complain when a kid is held back "just to win state" Sorry Hopes girls you are in a lose lose

 

[Jenny]

I did some homework on this...
All but one (who did not compete bars) at last year championships have qualified based on the score, take out a few who will now be senior.

Although those girls will still need to make a qualifying score at classics to compete at P&G champs. HOPEs don't go to P&G which is why the top ones try and compete Junior international early so they can go.

 

[CMA25]

Then again there are those that complain when a kid is held back "just to win state" Sorry Hopes girls you are in a lose lose

I know you are probably feeling like you need to defend your daughter, but I have to respectively disagree with this post. There are gyms that are know for holding kids back to win, but that isn't the case here. I don't know anyone who thinks those 9,10, & 11 year olds are being held back to win state at levels 8 & 9. Even if they are repeating. Texas is crazy and to win the Junior A age group, your routines have to be perfect!

 

[Fijiwater]

I know you are probably feeling like you need to defend your daughter, but I have to respectively disagree with this post. There are gyms that are know for holding kids back to win, but that isn't the case here. I don't know anyone who thinks those 9,10, & 11 year olds are being held back to win state at levels 8 & 9. Even if they are repeating. Texas is crazy and to win the Junior A age group, your routines have to be perfect!

No I am talking EXTREME like move back to level 6 or 7! Level 9 bars would still suck. LOL There were also plenty of girls that were told to move on from TOPs and focus on camp requirements and Hopes. And when 'The Man' says go you go. It has crossed my mind, "DAMMIT she could've done TOPs 2 more years and most likely been really successful!"

But whatever it doesn't matter what anyone says we do this because she wants to do it. I encouraged her to wait and do one year of level 8 win some medals then try Hopes as an 11 year old. She wouldn't have any of that. And from the people we have met through all this Hopes/Elite stuff that have been there and done that and see the worry and stress, the resounding message has been don't give up. As long as there is a sliver of hope and she wants to keep giving the effort, I will pay the way. (or according to some pay the way for Developmental Camp girls ) I guess we're just crazy enough to believe she can do it.

 

[CMA25]

No I am talking EXTREME like move back to level 6 or 7! Level 9 bars would still suck. LOL There were also plenty of girls that were told to move on from TOPs and focus on camp requirements and Hopes. And when 'The Man' says go you go. It has crossed my mind, "DAMMIT she could've done TOPs 2 more years and most likely been really successful!"

But whatever it doesn't matter what anyone says we do this because she wants to do it. I encouraged her to wait and do one year of level 8 win some medals then try Hopes as an 11 year old. She wouldn't have any of that. And from the people we have met through all this Hopes/Elite stuff that have been there and done that and see the worry and stress, the resounding message has been don't give up. As long as there is a sliver of hope and she wants to keep giving the effort, I will pay the way. (or according to some pay the way for Developmental Camp girls ) I guess we're just crazy enough to believe she can do it.

I agree! These littles just need more experience competing in high pressure situations, either through JO levels or Hopes. Her determination will get her far!

 

[sce]

No I am talking EXTREME like move back to level 6 or 7! Level 9 bars would still suck. LOL There were also plenty of girls that were told to move on from TOPs and focus on camp requirements and Hopes. And when 'The Man' says go you go. It has crossed my mind, "DAMMIT she could've done TOPs 2 more years and most likely been really successful!"

But did they say not to compete regularly in JO and/or to compete Hopes without the skills? Also, to me confidence in competition, form, leap angles etc are also skills needed for the highest levels. When I watch Sophia's videos, I am amazed, but not just by the skills, more so by the overall presentation, form and confidence. That comes from not rushing ahead and building experience along the way.

 

[catova]

But.. With respect to College gymnastics, it's starting to look to me like girls need elite/ National Team experience to get scholarships to the top teams. Am I wrong?

What I know about TOPS/Hopes is what I've learned from USAG website, CB, and talking with parents of other gyms at meets. Have been at 3 gyms (east and west coast), and none even participated in TOPS/Hopes. Two (including current gym) had at least one gymnast make it to a top 10 college program in the past few years. DD's current gym has several gymnasts on scholarship in NCAA Div 1 programs right now, and a handful of L10's committed for next year (signed already) or beyond (verbal scholarship offers to L10's who are not yet seniors in HS). This includes a few on/committed to top 20 teams, but we are equally excited no matter what college team the girls make. Obviously it's not the gym of choice for an elite gymnast, but just sharing the information, from my own little world, that suggests that participation in TOPS/Hopes, or national team, is not 'required' to earn a college gymnastics scholarship to a solid program.
I don't know what % of kids testing for TOPS/Hopes actually make it to elite/national team and college gymnastics, but, it would be interesting to compare that # to the % of girls at our gym at L8 and above who ultimately earn a gymnastics college scholarship. DD is not likely to make it to college gymnastics, but just being in an environment where she sees teammates reaching that goal on a somewhat regular basis is very positive and motivating for her - particularly since the coaches act as if it is within reach for every gymnast there, period.

 

[Fijiwater]

But did they say not to compete regularly in JO and/or to compete Hopes without the skills? Also, to me confidence in competition, form, leap angles etc are also skills needed for the highest levels. When I watch Sophia's videos, I am amazed, but not just by the skills, more so by the overall presentation, form and confidence. That comes from not rushing ahead and building experience along the way.

We've done JO meets but going to state and regionals in JO is not the focus. As for Sophia, I watched her in person this past weekend she is indeed fantastic, there's no competition there. But I guess your saying 3 years from now when my DD is 13 she will be no better off?

 

[Yuenling]

They can lower the qualifying score to allow more girls in.

Many girls "qualify" at the ranch.

I hope so! That's probably where she'll be going in May. She came so close with this first try. The difficulty was there.

 

[bogwoppit]

Although those girls will still need to make a qualifying score at classics to compete at P&G champs. HOPEs don't go to P&G which is why the top ones try and compete Junior international early so they can go.

I hope so! That's probably where she'll be going in May. She came so close with this first try. The difficulty was there.

It seems a lot easier to qualify at the ranch.

 

[Yuenling]

It seems a lot easier to qualify at the ranch.

I heard they do "verification" at camp. What is verification?

 

[bookworm]

I heard they do "verification" at camp. What is verification?

You do your routine and the ranch staff "verifies" that it's good enough to "qualify" ....semantics really..