WAG TOPs Hopes Elite results - secret?

[Hollowarchkick]

I really don't understand the point in rushing to Hopes or Elite if you're barely an optional? I mean, truly, I don't get it. If you're a sufficient L9, and your goal is beyond JO, Hopes makes great sense to get exposure in "Elite" world. L10 makes even more sense. But L7 or L8....why?? There's so much more to learn and master. Why just focus on learning higher difficulty when you haven't mastered optional basics? Being able to do clean and well executed optional routines is going to serve a gymnast more than just pushing them through the system. I'm not trying to be mean, I really want to understand the thought process behind this and maybe I can't understand a different point of view?

Everyone has their plan and philosophy and no one can say that they've got it all figured out as a rule. I will offer my most recent Hopes athlete's experience and try to show how there are different approaches that should also be considered.
The fall of 2013 was her first year as a level 4. She was a very good 8 yr old. She tested out of five and did level 7 in the spring of 2014. She scored as high as 39.3+ in January. She didn't win regionals and I think she may not have won state... Maybe she did? Anyway... Tops in the fall of 2014. She did one meet of level 9 (she wanted to go to Disney with the team). She didn't do anything incredible but did compete some new skills that would not have been what I would've had a level 9 compete if we were going for a win. She tested elite and passed the compulsory and won the optional test. She won classics in May. Then had an off day and managed top 5 at Hopes championships.
This is a better path for her gymnastics growth and birthdays come into play... She has a November birthday which means she's technically 12 this year even though she just turned 11 a couple months ago. A year of level 8 or 9 would've restricted her to just one year of Hopes before having to test elite. That's a huge challenge and a jump in level at some point that would, in my opinion, be more likely to create injury risks. I'm able to spot very high level skills easily and she doesn't have fear of them at this point. It was a huge advantage to be able to teach her "Ds, Es, Fs" without her ever having a hard fall.
This is just one example of why skipping 8 or 9 could be beneficial to a future elite. I believe this is the right decision for her. I also know that when there are so many variables, it's hard to give a black and white answer. I'm certain that some shouldn't do Hopes. I'm also certain that some should and sometimes the reasons aren't transparent from the outside looking in.

 

[chalkbowl]

Back in the day when my oldest did elite, the kids who are now doing HOPES were called pre-elite...and then this whole new HOPEs thing came out , and poof, no more pre-elite....which in my book, made more logical sense...

Yes, but pre-elite didn't have modified rules like HOPES does and was aimed at slightly older athletes. I believe the modified rules make HOPEs slightly closer to level 9 skill level (at least on most events) versus having full blown elite rules. Here is the PDF explaining HOPES as essentially a pre-pre-elite program for younger athletes:

Link Removed

Pre-Elite existed along with HOPES for a few years, before pre-elite was slowly phased out. The senior pre-elite division was eliminated in late 2006 and then junior pre-elite age group was expanded at this time to include athletes 11-15. I believe pre-elite was totally dissolved in 2010. Athletes either made international elite or they didn't.

 

[Jenny]

Thanks that is helpful @chalkbowl do you think the results were as secretive then and do you think as many girls tested? Now they have released the Brestyans results I am stunned by the number testing - more than I thought and also how low some of the scores are.

 

[chalkbowl]

Thanks that is helpful @chalkbowl do you think the results were as secretive then and do you think as many girls tested? Now they have released the Brestyans results I am stunned by the number testing - more than I thought and also how low some of the scores are.

IMO results are easier to find now than they ever have been in the past...As far as number of HOPEs kids testing, that has definitely increased. More kids being invited to camps means more athletes are being "discovered" which in turn has increased the number of kids testing.

 

[bookworm]

IMO results are easier to find now than they ever have been in the past...As far as number of HOPEs kids testing, that has definitely increased. More kids being invited to camps means more athletes are being "discovered" which in turn has increased the number of kids testing.

I do think the results are easier to find eventually....back when my daughter tested , they gave you a copy of the results for that testing and that was all anyone saw/heard...

 

[bogwoppit]

I do think the results are easier to find eventually....back when my daughter tested , they gave you a copy of the results for that testing and that was all anyone saw/heard...

I think that now results form all meets are easy to find it is a surprise when some are just impossible to find.

 

[Gymmommy71]

So reading the information above, it looks like jr. elite is ages 11-15, and hopes is 10-12. So from ages 11-12 the two programs overlap but HOPES is easier to qualify for and has lower minimum requirements per event, but the HOPES kids can compete their routines against the Jr. Elite kids at certain meets.

So kind of the equivalent of allowing an XCel Platinum gymnast w/ a really good beam routine into a L7 meet to go for medals when they still don't have the bars to score out of L5? But just at a much higher level .

So being in HOPES buys those 11-12 year olds a little more time to get their elite skills, but then if they don't have them by the year they turn 13 are they done w/ Elite?

I also wonder what percentage of the 10 YO hopes kids make Jr. elite the following year verses the 11 and 12 year olds. My guess is the percentage would go down as they age.

All interesting stuff - none of which my DD is good enough to do . Looks like if you are not doing elite level skills on almost every event by age 11, you're chances for the Olympics for gymnastics are nill.

 

[Fijiwater]

Looks like if you are not doing elite level skills on almost every event by age 11, you're chances for the Olympics for gymnastics are nill.

Everyone's chances at the Olympics are almost nill... It's nice for kids to dream about but 4 girls every four years makes it an improbable feat.

 

[Jenny]

So reading the information above, it looks like jr. elite is ages 11-15, and hopes is 10-12. So from ages 11-12 the two programs overlap but HOPES is easier to qualify for and has lower minimum requirements per event, but the HOPES kids can compete their routines against the Jr. Elite kids at certain meets.

So kind of the equivalent of allowing an XCel Platinum gymnast w/ a really good beam routine into a L7 meet to go for medals when they still don't have the bars to score out of L5? But just at a much higher level .

So being in HOPES buys those 11-12 year olds a little more time to get their elite skills, but then if they don't have them by the year they turn 13 are they done w/ Elite?

I also wonder what percentage of the 10 YO hopes kids make Jr. elite the following year verses the 11 and 12 year olds. My guess is the percentage would go down as they age.

All interesting stuff - none of which my DD is good enough to do . Looks like if you are not doing elite level skills on almost every event by age 11, you're chances for the Olympics for gymnastics are nill.

You need to be really rocking HOPES to have any chance of Junior elite the following year. The qualification scores go up a lot. Only 7 of the 43 gymnasts qualified Jr Elite optionals at Brestyans . Some were close enough to make it another time. Others not so.

It is not easy to get a 13 on every piece. Even if you have a stand out event and pick up a 15 on something that only covers your weakest event to be an 11. And don't forget HOPES is on modified FIG too. So an easier code which raises your HOPEs score in comparison. So the gap is effectively even wider.

 

[bogwoppit]

Everyone's chances at the Olympics are almost nill... It's nice for kids to dream about but 4 girls every four years makes it an improbable feat.

Easier just to buy a ticket! I did it for worlds so I got to tell everyone I was going to worlds for gymnastics, because I am that good.

 

[Fijiwater]

Easier just to buy a ticket! I did it for worlds so I got to tell everyone I was going to worlds for gymnastics, because I am that good.

Like the Dallas Cowboys in the Super Bowl LOL

 

[bogwoppit]

Like the Dallas Cowboys in the Super Bowl LOL

Totally, hahahahaha.

Plus I took no kids so I got to drink Glasgow dry, well me and my CB buddies gave it a very good try.

 

[chalkbowl]

So reading the information above, it looks like jr. elite is ages 11-15, and hopes is 10-12. So from ages 11-12 the two programs overlap but HOPES is easier to qualify for and has lower minimum requirements per event, but the HOPES kids can compete their routines against the Jr. Elite kids at certain meets.

HOPES has since been expanded and there are now two different age groups: Ages 10-11 & Ages 12-13.

Of the 22 Hopes 12-13 year olds that competed in the 2013 US Challenge, 10 of them competed at the Junior International Elite level in 2015 (Alyona Shchennikova, Elena Arenas, Olivia Trautman, Aria Brusch, Abigail Walker, Caitlin Smith, Margzetta Frazier, Shania Adams, Madison Rau, & Adriana Popp)

Of the 7 Hopes 10-11 year olds that competed in 2013 US Challenge, the top 3 of them competed at the Junior International Elite level in 2015 (Adeline Kenlin, Olivia Dunne, & Shilese Jones). Two continued to compete as a HOPEs athlete in 2015 (Autumn Lull & Baleigh Garcia).

 

[LemonLime]

My dd qualified hopes in the first year of the Hopes program. It was 10-12 (only one age group) and compulsories were a large part of the overall score. They posted every score sheet from the ranch and qualifiers on the old version of the USAG website, but that posting has slowly gone away. For many years (around 2009??), sadly comps and opt scores have rarely been posted.

The program started out with a bang, but severely dropped in numbers after that first year. It didn't start to rebound in participants until around 2010. I recall at the American Challenge in San Diego, only THREE girls participated in Hopes. In around 2010 or 2011, only two Pre-Elites competed at the American Challenge, but one of those two was Simone Biles.

My dd did full JO and Hopes/Elite at the same time, which was a gym choice that worked great for her because the coaches did a great job. I think Kocian skipped Level 10 because she made national team as a Level 9, but most every hopes athlete went all the way through successful Westerns and JO Nationals meets. Gabby Douglas and Sabrina Vega, for instance, went to elite Championships a few weeks after JO nationals. Kyla Ross and McKayla Maroney did a full year of 10 before testing elite (as did Gowey and Flatley).

IMO, being trained for tops, hopes and elite at an early age is great. Coaches can focus on upgraded bar roots and dance skills from an early age which is highly beneficial to development. I truly don't see the downside of hopes unless the parents or coaches create problems. If a child is told she is "training elite" or is "an elite," when she's really a developmentally appropriate Level 9 who falls a lot, the child is likely to develop a fear of failure. If a gymnast falls all the time and chucks skills, they will get injured and lose their confidence. Kids who SOLELY compete tops and hopes can sometimes miss important milestones and may lack solid basics that the JO program can offer. Injuries occur in every gymnast, but poor surfaces, excess numbers, and chucking skills are the main culprits and these issues exist EQUALLY in JO and Elite. Carefully managed by a good coach, however, there's a lot more to be gained than lost by accelerating development based on the child's mental and physical abilities.

 

[Sidnito]

Thank you Lemon Lime!
My daughter is also a level 9, doing both is definitely beneficial. The coach pretty much follows the advice given at camp on how to prepare. They have said to do both. The hopes program helps to get girls prepared for Jr Elite and from there Elite. Everyone may not get there but its is a path laid out to help get you there.

 

[sce]

Thank you Lemon Lime!
My daughter is also a level 9, doing both is definitely beneficial. The coach pretty much follows the advice given at camp on how to prepare. They have said to do both. The hopes program helps to get girls prepared for Jr Elite and from there Elite. Everyone may not get there but its is a path laid out to help get you there.

See, this is what I've been asking all along. I get that the national staff would encourage some do do Hopes and work on those skills, but I couldn't understand that they would say in exclusion of JO (you are the first to confirm either way). There are so many benefits to competing more often. Doing both makes much more sense to me.

 

[twocurlygirlz]

Anyone have scores for Hopes/Auburn or live feed on scores for today/tomorrow?

 

[bogwoppit]

Does not seem to be on MSO.

 

[strawberries]

Secret, secret, secret....

 

[twocurlygirlz]

Does not seem to be on MSO.

Looked there and on the site- Nada- but placeholder on mymeetscores.com....interesting...