What Makes For a Good Gym?

[kqtmom]

Hello all,

My daughter is six and recently joined her gym's competitive team (as a level 3). Up to this point, we have been happy with the gym. Mostly because the gym is extremely close to our house and the coaches she has had (at least up to this point) were pretty nice. But now that my daughter is on team, things are quite different. Being new to the sport, I don't know if the issues are par for the course or something to be concerned about. Hope someone can help!

Our primary problem with the team comes from lack of coaching. The team has one coach for 20-30 girls. There's no assistant - all we have is one woman telling the group of girls (ranging in age from 6-11) what to do. They rarely practice bars because they don't have enough and 2-3 girls must share each balance beam. So it just seems rather unsafe - to have so many kids doing things without proper instruction or oversight... I just don't know if it's normal. Is it? As far as I know, the gym is associated with USA Gymnastics, but I have no idea if they have any code of conducts for supervision. Beyond the safety issues, it really bothers me that we are spending so much money and getting very little one to one instruction. My daughter is struggling with some movements and is leaving the gym feeling frustrated.

Another issue I have is with the gym management. I asked the manager a simple question about a previous coach (because I thought the previous coach was going to help with the team) and the manager just yelled at me. He used some very strong language that I thought was completely unacceptable given the question that I asked. Literally, I just asked her if so and so was coming back. What I got in return was a completely unprofessional response.

So do you think my concerns are valid? Should we be looking for another gym (closest one is half hour away)?

Is this level of supervision to be expected?

What kinds of questions should I ask the next gym (if we do start looking around)?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

 

[bogwoppit]

Yiur concerns are completely valid and there are red flags waving all over.

1- 8 would be an acceptable ratio for a child of 6. There is no way on this planet that one coach can train 20+ girls. One on one time should be part of every class.

Not being able to use the equipment is red flag number two. Your child should be doing every apparatus and conditioning weekly at L3.

If the manager yelled at me I would take my kid and leave. You are paying that "person", I use that term loosely as other words will get *** by the rude word filter, to train your child. It is totally disrespectful to yell at a paying customer.

If you have choices, LEAVE!!! If you have no choices, LEAVE!!! This gym sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

By the way welcomem to the Chalkbucket, and I hope you let us know what you decide to do.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

Does not sound normal. That is WAY too many kids for one coach. I am not as concerned about the # of girls on beam- ours generally warm up 3 to a beam the will switch on & off working routines and skills that require more space (BWO's & cartwheels etc).

I would say 8 to a coach - 10 tops if they are older & higher level that can work routines relatively well w/o a lot of instruction.

I would look elsewhere

 

[Deleted member D3987]

no, that coach /student ratio is unacceptable. even for level 10's that know what their doing.

 

[sgrjeni]

I would have to take my child somewhere else if it was available. Where I am at this is the only gym around. I would have to travel over 2 hours to get to the nearest one if I had to.

As far as management getting in your face...I would not take that.

We are allowed to talk to our coaches here at any time about any concerns or questions we may have. They like and want us to get invloved as much as we can. They encourage as should any place in any sport. This is your child.

We have several teams here and the girls sometimes do warm up 3 on a bar if they want. they also do that on the beam and we have 6 beams. As far as routines they do it one person at a time unless they are working on a program of some sort.

In my personal opinion talk to the management and tell them you dont like the way you are being treated. If they dont like call the owner. I have the owners phone number to our gym but our manager ROCKS !!!!

I hope and pray that your problem gets fixed so your child can have some fun and learn. Have a great day.

 

[kqtmom]

Thank you for taking the time to read my message & respond. Suddenly, I don't feel so crazy anymore! This is such a great site!

20-30 kids per coach seemed kind of unreasonable to me, but I just didn't know if that was typical for a team. I tend to be a worrier by nature so I just didn't know if my concerns were valid.

I know that we probably need to find another gym, and I feel a little worried about the whole process. My daughter has been going to this gym for two years, and she is used to the place. She tends to be on the shy side so I know that going to a new place will be a huge adjustment for her. But I just feel like it's something we're going to have to do if she wants to continue with gymnastics. I hate feeling like we are being taken advantage of, and I don't think she's ever going learn what she needs to learn to be good at the sport if we stay at the current facility.

So going forward, is there anything I should be looking for in the next place? Anything you really like about your gym that you would be willing to share?

How can I identify a good coach?

Is it easy to move from one team to another team? I don't want the next gym to think I'm just a complainer.

Any thoughts, would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

 

[sgrjeni]

Thank you for taking the time to read my message & respond. Suddenly, I don't feel so crazy anymore! This is such a great site!
You’re very welcome and I agree it’s a wonderful site. I just found this site yesterday and LOVE IT !!! As far as being crazy you’re not just a concerned parent.


20-30 kids per coach seemed kind of unreasonable to me, but I just didn't know if that was typical for a team. I tend to be a worrier by nature so I just didn't know if my concerns were valid.
No it’s not typical not that I know of. I worry a lot myself over everything so it’s ok.

I know that we probably need to find another gym, and I feel a little worried about the whole process. My daughter has been going to this gym for two years, and she is used to the place. She tends to be on the shy side so I know that going to a new place will be a huge adjustment for her. But I just feel like it's something we're going to have to do if she wants to continue with gymnastics. I hate feeling like we are being taken advantage of, and I don't think she's ever going learn what she needs to learn to be good at the sport if we stay at the current facility.
I completely understand your fears and concerns about your daughter being in one place and knowing the people. Mine has been going where she is at for almost 2 years, knows them all and loves them. It would be hard to go somewhere else I agree…but they need to let the parents involved and talk about their concerns. Is there another coach that your daughter can use? Can she go on a different day? If they don’t then to me it’s like they are only in it for the money or all about the competition. See if you can make an appointment with the coach or even the owner. Somehow they have to answer you, I bet if you didn’t pay the bill they would want your attention then. I am not saying don’t pay them just using it as an example. If they want to keep any of their clients they need to learn customer service.


Sorry if I asked so many questions I am just trying to help you figure out something that would be helpful for you and your daughter.

 

[sportzmomov3]

First, as everyone prior has already said, you are completely justified in having concerns - no one should ever be treated so disrespectfully - paying customer or not. Ok, enough on that - look for a new place!

Different gyms offer different training facilities and program set-ups, and that goes for coaching philosophies too - the range is broad and ultimately YOU as the parent must go with your parental gut feel to determine what is best for your child. Whatever prompts the move is not as important as learning and applying it to where you go next.

In a gym, look for safe equipment and set-up. Observe whether there is room for the number of children out on the floor. Having three girls on one beam is fairly common from what I've observed and experienced.

You know your child best so look for coaching styles which would work with what she needs, not what the gym or anyone else tells you your child needs. Some gyms have a crew of coaches so the ratio is small, but observe the coaching styles - are they truly focused on what's going on? (i.e. are they professional?) All USAG coaches must be safety certified regularly and not all gyms are USAG members (though they must be if they have teams that compete in USAG sanctioned events), so don't assume - ask - it's your right.

Get a schedule from the gym and go on different days to observe so you can get a good feel of what to expect. Take your daughter with you as this will be HER environment to grow in and she should feel comfortable as well. Hope this helps, and lots of luck!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thank you for taking the time to read my message & respond. Suddenly, I don't feel so crazy anymore! This is such a great site!

20-30 kids per coach seemed kind of unreasonable to me, but I just didn't know if that was typical for a team. I tend to be a worrier by nature so I just didn't know if my concerns were valid.

I know that we probably need to find another gym, and I feel a little worried about the whole process. My daughter has been going to this gym for two years, and she is used to the place. She tends to be on the shy side so I know that going to a new place will be a huge adjustment for her. But I just feel like it's something we're going to have to do if she wants to continue with gymnastics. I hate feeling like we are being taken advantage of, and I don't think she's ever going learn what she needs to learn to be good at the sport if we stay at the current facility.

So going forward, is there anything I should be looking for in the next place? Anything you really like about your gym that you would be willing to share?

How can I identify a good coach?

Is it easy to move from one team to another team? I don't want the next gym to think I'm just a complainer.

Any thoughts, would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

again, it is unacceptable. if someone is injured, they will be at risk for lawsuit. lack of supervision and negligence. the legal duty is theirs, and theirs alone. run to the next nearest gym. say nice things about your former gym and coaches. stay positive and state that you think your daughter needed a change of environment. and leave it at that.

 

[BarCoach]

I agree with what everyone has said, but I'm interested in hearing answers to the original question, what makes for a good gym?

 

[cathiann]

As others have said--both the ration of coach to gymnast and the response of the owner to your question is completely out of line. I am glad you plan to look for another gym. People movng gyms is normal--a gym may be wonderful and work great for some people but just not work out well for another (uh, in your case, I can't imagine anyoe thinking it's wonderful, but who knows!). Call the gym you're considering and let them know your daughter has just started on the level 3 team at your current gym, but you are interested in changing gyms, Ask about their team program. Go watch a team practice or two without your daughter and see what it's like. If you like what you see, then bring your daughter for a trial/try-out with them.

What makes a good coach? Someone who watches the girls and corrects their mistakes without screaming at them. If the girls are scared of the coach, I don't think that's a good thing (but many coaches do coach like that). I also want a coach that's knowledgable about the sport--if they don't know HOW to coach a skill and progressions to make--that won't help the girls progress at all.

 

[Obeg]

What makes for a good gym? I think that really depends on the gymnast and her goals. Around here - and I expect it is the same around the country - there are 3 type gyms: (And this is my perception so no bashing! lol)

1) The "Russian Style" competitive gym - This gym follows the old school Russian ideas of "conditioning and form" over skills and some say "fun". The thought is these systems - if your girl sticks with it - generally turns out the best scoring, best form gymnast with less injuries because of the conditioning. The negatives, however is that the extra conditioning can run girls away. The extra emphasis on perfecting a skill form wise before moving on to the next can be frustrating to girl and parent. You can often tell these gyms by not being able to understand the coaches ;-) and the freakish way that the entire team looks like clones. lol There are 2-3 of these in my area - and they generally kick butt locally. In my opinion - you pick this gym if your dd has real ability and desire to go to high levels (10 -Elite) and or the best chance for a Div 1 Scholarship. You would not pick this gym if this is just a fun sport for your gymnast but not something she wants to take to the next level.

2) The "American Style" competitive gym. This gym system is usually seen as more laid back and maybe more fun because of that. They tend to do less conditioning and work more on skills in a more laid back fashion. Some think that this leads to more injuries. The coaches seem less strict in practice and less strict on form. Oftentimes the choreo for fx contains much less dance and more tumbling. You can oftentimes ID these gyms at a meet because the girls look less robotic and actually look more like your typical teenage girl.
There are 2 of these in the area. I think you pick this gym if your gymnast loves gymnastics and wishes to compete and climb to the optional levels and maybe shoot for college gymnastics.

3) The "We aren't real serious" gym. These gyms are normally undersized and understaffed for a real competitive team. They generally focus on their bread and butter rec program and have a team they are either trying to build or have just so they can say they have one. They don't tend to be all the serious about their team and generally score near the bottom at meets - but the girls have fun, are injury free, and have fun. There are 2 of these in my area. I think you pick this gym if you have a passing interest in gymnastics and would like to compete - but maybe not make it your life - or maybe you have a gymnast who LOVES gymnastics - but poor thing - it just isn't really her sport physically - but hey put her here and she can be a big fish in a small pond.

Now for me - how do I decide? I had my first dd in one of the better Russian style gyms on the East coast from age 15 months until she was 6. I loved that gym - loved the results they got from their gymnasts - love to see where they are now. However - when it came time to put my second gymnast dd into a gym - we went with the American Style. The reason being is I think that there may be better hope to keep her interested, having fun, and building an interest. More than likely we will stick with this gym - however - IF she did start to show a real ability or desire to excel - I would consider moving her to the Russian gym - but probably not for several years.

 

[sportzmomov3]

Just had a meet this weekend and so I laughed when I read Obeg's post.

We are at a gym that has a reputation for being a high-scoring gym and producing high calibre gymnasts (10-Elite). Before we actually ended up here, we had heard all the rumors about this gym: ridiculous training hours, unreasonable coaches, too few coaches, holding girls back to get those higher scores. Yesterday, I heard yet another - that there was no tuition and the gym owner had a benefactor who paid for all the girls and anyone could train. I liked this last one the best, because now I'm due a big refund - LOL!

None of these are true obviously. We made sure not to only look at one facet of this gym before moving. And though there is a gym near us that fits Obeg's described type 1 gym, they are not top dog in the state or region. Some girls we have personally known have seemingly progressed amazingly well there, while others have retired from gymnastics b/c of that gym's negatives (which I won't detail.) Lesson: don't believe everything you hear - go observe for yourself and experience yourself. Most gyms allow your gymnast to do a trial practice before making a move.

So to answer the original question of what makes a good gym? It depends on what you AND your gymnast want AND need. There is no gym out there that is right for everyone. You must consider all the factors - coaching (style, ratio to gymnasts), program (rec, USAG competitive, USAIG, elite) and finally you and your gymnast (financial considerations, time commitment, potential, personal goals). There is no one answer to this question and that's the reason why people usually change gyms at some point in their gymnastics life - over time needs and goals may change, requiring a move.

 

[gymdog]

I agree - what makes a "good" gym probably depends on your motivations. And I've certainly seen more than one model work. It may be easier to look at what doesn't work.

In general I would say key factors are how well the gym is managed in terms of staff, there can be a big difference. The best gyms in my opinion have stricter standards for staff and progress is very technique oriented - you don't have all these people doing their own thing. There should be some flexibility for individuals but way too much decentralization usually leads to some people who are pretty ineffective and/or don't seem to care or have any idea what they're doing.

For example, I've worked in a class program that has an actual curriculum. A LOT OF TIME goes into producing these lessons plans for each class. You can go to a class there with any instructor, and it is a good quality class. I highly recommend this gym to others in the area looking for preschool or beginning gymnastics (they have a pretty solid team program too). Although there are other gyms in the area that also have good team programs. I just feel like the way this gym is managed and the way classes are structured is superior to others. It is also a good value. I know that people will be satisfied with the "product" this gym is producing, in general, no matter how their kid progresses, etc. So I feel confident recommending it. The main drawback is that the classes fill quickly as there is high demand - an obvious sign that the "product" is high quality.

I think Mas Watanabe did a blog on something similar to this, more from a team point of view (which I also think is extremely extremely important, more so even), about being able to look around the gym and see good fundamentals taught in every group working out - his examples were that you look over and see level 7s working on baby giant swing to clear support, and even those who are just working towards giant, you can see they are learning the basis for it correctly...level 5s working on blocking drills for vault. No groups are just "throwing" skills or being taught incorrectly - all the coaches have knowledge of appropriate drills and skills for the level they are working with, and implementing those things on a daily basis. The children are in a safe progressive environment, not being screamed at because they're 45 lbs and can't get over the vault table with the instructions "run faster, try harder."

 

[kqtmom]

Wow - I just wanted to thank everyone for all the great answers. Your expertise is really impressive and appreciated.

Being new to the sport it's very difficult to know what to look for and there are so many things to consider. We just started going to the closest place when our daughter expressed an interest. Initially, we didn't think she was going to compete at all - we just wanted to give her a chance to meet new friends and have some fun.

To the person that asked if we could switch coaches at the current gym - unless we wanted to move her to a non-competitive program within the same gym, we're just kind of stuck with the coach we have. So it's probably just time to move on because I just don't see the situation ever improving.

I wish I knew, though, if my daughter is truly suited for the sport. She likes gymnastics, but I just don't know if she'll ever have the best body type/proportions to excel at it. For instance - she's petite, but she has short legs so her speed and endurance doesn't seem to be as great as the other girls in her class. I always wondered if that would be an obstacle in the future. Surprisingly (ha ha), her current gym never really gave us too much feedback on her potential. They kept moving her up to new levels, but we never got any definite reports. I am a little concerned that the gym is just a money maker for the owners/managers, who may move kids up so that their parents will have to pay more.

This is probably off topic from the original question, but are there any physical attributes best suited for the sport (or limitations to look out for)?

Also, if anyone thinks of any other qualities of a great gym, I would love to hear those as well.

Thanks, again for all the replies.

 

[sgrjeni]

I agree with what everyone has said, but I'm interested in hearing answers to the original question, what makes for a good gym?

I would have to say what makes a good gym is a fully understanding staff. Not just the coaches but the management as well. They all have to be concerned about the family and students.

They need to understand that parents have questions and concerns. If the coach is not able to meet with you then you should be able to talk to the management and let them know your concerns.

The gym should ALWAYS be concerned about safety FIRST.
Make sure there is not to many in one class to many students in one class can cause them to loose site and focus and another student who may need that extra help.

I know the gym we go to only allows 10 students per class. Even on the team. They have to meet on different days to practice. Unless of course a meet is coming up but then only so many on the floor at a time.

They pay very close attention to them all to make sure they all get the attention they deserve and to make sure they learn the correct way for their safety.

I love the gym my lil one goes to they are so special and caring I could not ask for a better gym. So courteous, loving, helpful in everyway.

 

[CoachTodd]

USAG suggest 8-1 kid to coach ratio.
I think what makes a good gym depends more on what the gymnast is looking for than anything else. A good coach to child ration is very important for safety issues alone. After that the question would be "how is the coach with my DD?" Is my DD having fun? Is she progressing and being challenged at the same time?
And so on....