Parents What would you do? (teams and skipping levels)

[lhmom]

Well, she would not have been able to compete the current level 4 until she was 6 anyway. My daughter started competing level 4 at 6. While she was not a "superstar", she improved with each meet and met quite a few of her own goals. She was consistently scoring 35's by the time the season was done and was quite content with how she did. Sounds like your girl just wants the challenge, so if the new gym says she can compete the new 3 (old 4), I'd say go for it. She'll probably surprise you.

 

[sjm2b3]

My view is that levels 2 and 3 are just for fun, and totally not necessary if your kid doesn't need to do them. It sounds like she is pretty close to everything in level 4 and would do just fine training that. I will say that scoring in levels 4+ is different from levels 2 and 3, so you can't really compare. You know your daughter best, and each kid is different. Some kids need to compete and do well for the confidence. My DD competed level 4 as a 6 year old and is moving on....I guess I would rather have her repeat level 5 than have spent time at level 3, if that makes sense. See what the gym has to say and good luck!

 

[EmmasMommy]

Yes, she's already 6. What I meant was she could have moved to level 3 at 5. She was ready. Moving to 4 and 6 without moving to 3 at 5 will be harder. Moving to 3 at 5 would have been an easy switch for her. Thanks for the feedback, too. We'll see what the new gym thinks. It might be easier for them to make this decision if they knew her, because then they could better guess what progress to expect from her over the summer. Sounds like they will be looking at strength and flexibility, which is good news for her. But they will also be looking at level 3 and 4 skills, and if they are looking for her to have ALL the level 3 and 4 skills to skip her, that's not gonna happen but if they are looking at whether she can learn what she doesn't know in time to compete level 4 next year, then my guess is they would skip her. But she'll be practicing with girls who have been competing level 3 and uptraining for level 4 for 6-8 months now, and I certainly don't think she'll be on the same level as them considering that my daughter's been hanging out in level 2 all this time.

 

[EmmasMommy]

My view is that levels 2 and 3 are just for fun, and totally not necessary if your kid doesn't need to do them. It sounds like she is pretty close to everything in level 4 and would do just fine training that. I will say that scoring in levels 4+ is different from levels 2 and 3, so you can't really compare. You know your daughter best, and each kid is different. Some kids need to compete and do well for the confidence. My DD competed level 4 as a 6 year old and is moving on....I guess I would rather have her repeat level 5 than have spent time at level 3, if that makes sense. See what the gym has to say and good luck!

That makes sense to me. Let them repeat the later levels if they need.

 

[GymBeeMom]

Get the new gym to evaluate her and put her where they tell you to. Then sit back and buckle up for the bumpy ride; it sounds like your DD may be in for the long haul

 

[EmmasMommy]

Thanks It may end up being a non-issue completely if they don't want to skip her but at least now if they do I feel a little better supporting my daughter in this effort of hers.

 

[JessLW]

Get the new gym to evaluate her and put her where they tell you to. Then sit back and buckle up for the bumpy ride; it sounds like your DD may be in for the long haul

I agree, but I'd add, when you take her in for evaluation, tell them about her goals and tell them that she is more interested in learning new skills than in dominating at a lower level. Let them know that you will respect their decision either way, but that your DD is looking to be pushed.

I think if she can already do a press handstand, that shows that she has the core strength needed for a lot of the harder basic skills. If you are taking her to a gym that believes in "fast tracking" it is likely that they will consider her a good candidate.

FWIW, I think skipping a level at this age should not be a huge deal. As has been pointed out, lots of kids essentially "skip" levels 1-3 and don't start competing until L4 anyhow. I don't think you'll encounter a huge amount of resistance to the idea. If she was an 8 year old skipping L6 or L7 you'd probably find a really wide range of opinions on the issue.

 

[emorymom]

Oh, are they removing skills from the current level 4 to make the new level 3?

I thought basically they were combining 1 and 2 to make 1. Current 3 would be new 2. Current 4 would be new 3. So on. Then they were adding in a new level 6. 7-10 would be the same.

I admit I don't know a WHOLE lot about it though. I did realize that for her moving to "level 4" really just means moving to the new level 3, but in this post I used the current level names because it's more about skills and not about what "level" she is on numerically.

I am not aware they are doing that, but you were describing ... is she doing AAU L3? A lot of states' AAU L3's are somewhere in between USAG 3 and USAG 4 (current level numbers).

 

[EmmasMommy]

I am not aware they are doing that, but you were describing ... is she doing AAU L3? A lot of states' AAU L3's are somewhere in between USAG 3 and USAG 4 (current level numbers).

OK now I see what you mean

her gym does level 2 and 3 AAU and level 4 USAG. I think they might do level 4 AAU, too, if there is such a thing. I feel like I heard that their level 4 girls compete both, but if that's not possible, then obviously that's not the case lol

She's very strong and extremely flexible and a fast learner. It's a matter of if the new gym thinks she's capable and if she has the mental/emotional maturity. But I still think it will be harder than it would have been to skip last year, because last year to skip all she would have needed to learn were skills that hadn't been uptrained anyway. She has the same skill level. This year, she'd be playing catch up on a few things.

 

[EmmasMommy]

She got her back handspring on the floor today Now she just needs to get it with a round off.

On Monday they showed her how to properly go a handstand forward roll and she's doing that now, too. On Monday they also showed her how to do her backward roll with straight arms. They worked on it for 5 minutes of her half hour private class, and she was close. She tried again today and got it after another 5 minutes of working on it. I did gymnastics myself when I was younger, and maybe I just sucked, but I spent months working on that skill and could never do it. It would be nice if she could get her front hip circle by Thursday.

 

[EmmasMommy]

She's been doing beam for the last 30 minutes now, too (low beam). She has the level 3 beam dismount (first time trying) and can almost do her level 4 beam dismount (still needs a light spot)--she got to this point within 10 tries. I know high beam is another thing entirely, but she's glad she is picking up on the technique so quickly! She can get her cartwheel on the low beam hit and miss (50/50) and her handstand on beam is more like 80/20. Her tuck jump, split jump, and leap on beam are really strong, too (no wobble, height, good form). It's been a while since she's worked on new skills and about just as long since she's worked on more advanced skills that she already knows, but it's reminding me how fast she can learn and how passionate she is about the sport when she feels challenged

 

[krisnkids]

Be forewarned, AAU vs USAG scoring is vastly different. I have seen girls go from 36s at AAU to 32-33 at USAG.

 

[EmmasMommy]

I've seen a difference just from competition to competition and event to event. For example, at her recent competition, they were harsh on floor (coaches and parents thought so) thought she still did well and came in 3rd for the event. But on vault, I thought they were scoring everyone too high (my daughter included)--she got a 9.25 and came in 37th place (her placing was fair--she's not great at vault, though they also only work on vault 15 minutes a week at her gym). I have watched a lot of level 4 competitions and I'm pretty good at understanding the scoring and where the deductions are coming from--but I was an assistant gymnastics coach for 2 years--thought it was many years ago, I think it helps me have a fair understanding of what scores to expect based on a child's ability/form. I'm also close friends with a woman at my daughter's gym who was level 3 last year and level 4 this year and her form and learning ability are very similar to my daughters. In both level 3 and 4 she has gotten tons of high placements (1st, 2nd, 3rd on events, and even 1st place overall for her age group at several level 4 competitions.) So I am basing a lot of what I think based on knowing her family and seeing her compete. I'm pretty familiar with how scoring works, even if I haven't been there with my own child yet And part of that is what I factor in to how I think she would do if she skipped level 3. If she didn't skip level 3, she could do well, but if she's skipping, I wouldn't be holding my breath for scoring over a 34.

My daughter scores pretty close to 38 at AAU level. I think if she stayed on track, she could do 34-36 by time she hits level 4, especially considering that many of those skills she would have known for 1-3 years by that point. But without knowing those newer skills for at least a year, I would expect much lower scores unless she surprises me.

 

[RileyG]

I don't know how your gym works, but in ours the girls uptrain all year, after states they really focus even more. they move up over the summer, but.........they have to have their skills for the next level before moving up and they have to prove they can keep them. In other words a level 3 girl uptraining level 4 skills and gets all the skills in our gym has to maintain them for a month then they will move up. once they get to the competitive levels they move up over the summer. if they don't have the skills needed for the next level they don't move.

I am referring to the current levels, not the new ones.

 

[EmmasMommy]

I don't know how your gym works, but in ours the girls uptrain all year, after states they really focus even more. they move up over the summer, but.........they have to have their skills for the next level before moving up and they have to prove they can keep them. In other words a level 3 girl uptraining level 4 skills and gets all the skills in our gym has to maintain them for a month then they will move up. once they get to the competitive levels they move up over the summer. if they don't have the skills needed for the next level they don't move.

I am referring to the current levels, not the new ones.

Our gym doesn't work this way. They don't uptrain all year. Very little uptraining. They up train over summer and they move up girls that don't have the skills and won't skip a girl even if she has all the skills (they can still move up, they just can't skip). If you start in level 2 there, but could get a perfect 10 on everything for levels 3, 4, and 5, I still don't think they would put you in level 5, because they seem to do things more systematic than on an individual basis. For example, they moved all their level 2's up to 3 last summer, even though some still doesn't do a proper pull over on the bar. But then they have girls who were preteam that could do everything the level 2 girls could do and MORE and they didn't let those girls go into level 3. They usually give a reason, such as form, but then you still see girls with treacherous form moving up because for levels 2 and 3, they move almost everyone up, even if they don't have the skills yet. I'm sure they would say they don't, but all the moms at the gym have witnessed it--actions speak louder than words Don't get me wrong, I love our current gym and the coaches and there have been benefits for *my* daughter with how they have handled things, but the one-size-fits all approach seems to be more about numbers and "standard protocol" than individuals.

We had one girl who was level 9 getting 36+ at every competition. Back when she was level 7 she was invited to train at some place in Texas (I don't know the details, but apparently it was a REALLY big deal, very elite, and she would have to move there to train at that gym). But her parents were divorced and the dad wouldn't allow her to go. So she stayed at our gym through level 9. She qualified to move up and was more than ready. She already has all the level 10 skills. This girl is amazing--she does the kinds of things you see at the Olympics, and she's taught herself a lot of skills because our gym doesn't really have time for their level 9/10 girls from what I've seen and heard. anyway, they wouldn't move her to level 10. She went back to her old gym (even though it was further away) and they moved her in level 10 where, honestly, if you asked anyone else on the planet other than the coaches at our gym, she belonged. (I get the impression there was something weird going on that had nothing to do with her gymnastics there, because some of the coaches DID think she should move up, but some of the other coaches were apparently just mean to her.) She would do a skill perfect and they'd be like "meh" and then another girl would do the same skill horrible and they'd be like "great try!" Or she would be trying something new and really hard, and maybe she'd get it like 75% of the time, but if she didn't get it one time, one of the coaches would be like "show me when you can actually do it." and walk away.

Another girl wasn't moved from pre-team to team because she "didn't have the right body type". I am not sure what the coaches were looking for--she seemed fine to me and no different from the other girls. So, I really think coaches just look at things different.

Our experience there hasn't been like that, but from what I understand after level 7 they are really hesitant to move girls up (and coincidentally that is the level that one of the coaches couldn't score out of when she was a gymnast, and she's the one who keeps girls back in 7). Some of this I've seen first hand, but some of it i think is just gym drama. I think there's gonna be gym drama wherever you go, but so far I've managed not to be involved in any and want to keep it that way However, I do understand where some of the girls and parents might be confused about the way girls are moving up (keeping back girls who are ready and moving up girls who aren't) but I think that's just because coaches may see things that the parents and gymnasts can't and might have different criteria. They aren't an elite gym though, they don't do TOPS or any other programs, they pretty much discourage any elite dreams or goals, and I don't think they even try to help girls get scholarships, so it makes sense why they operate the way they do. Their gym has other goals and does well with those goals

 

[EmmasMommy]

Today has been an amazing day! This girl is on fire, and very very determined
She's now landing her cartwheels on beam more than 75% of the time and her handstands 99% of the time.
She also can now put together her round-off and back handspring (we'll need to work on applying her form that she has when she does the skills separately to doing them together, but I honestly wasn't expecting her to get that within her first few tries!) This is on the trampoline, though. Doing back handsprings on the floor is new to her as of today, so once she feels really secure with that we'll worry about moving the round-off BHS from the trampoline to the floor. (At this rate, maybe tomorrow lol)
I'm feeling now that if her evaluation goes well that maybe she really can learn what she needs over the summer.

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

Do you have a YouTube page- I'd love to see this little dymnamo getting her skills on the first try!

 

[EmmasMommy]

I'll make a video tomorrow and upload it Just beware the form is horrible but in the meantime, I'll upload some of the videos we already have

I'll also include her 1 arm push ups (I think people think I must be lying when I say things she can do or how fast she learns, and I've had people outright call me a liar. I won 50 dollars on this one because no one believed my 6 year old could do one armed push ups, so they took the bet lol) But really, I think there's a difference between learning a skill and learning to do it right. She does learn the skills fast, but like anyone she needs practice to do them with the correct form

 

[EmmasMommy]

Here is the videos of her when she is 5 (some first attempts on skills she does now) paired with some more recent videos (age 6).

-Her back walkover you can see the second one she did and then you can see one from the other day. She did get a little bit of training for this over last summer, but nothing since.
-The dismount you can see from her first day trying to how she did it at her last competition. This skill she received training with since learning it herself.
-The back handspring you can see from the day she first tried one by herself and you can see how it looks now, after irregular privates she has received this year.
-Her shoot through still has received no gym training, not has her front walkover. That was her first attempt at a front walkover. She's seen other girls do them, and I thought I was going to record her back walkover but she said "can I try a front walkover first" and I was already recording. So, that might give a clear idea of how bad a skill looks when she tries it for the first time
-The straddle press has received no gym training, but the coaches have seen the videos and given tips on how she can improve (she sort of just "falls" down at the end). She hasn't worked on them in a long time and had to regain the skill recently. I'll see if I can get a video of it tomorrow, but I doubt it's improved.

[video]http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/emmasmommy2/media/emmaskillsage5and6_zps742cd550.mp4.html[/video]

(obviously most of these are 2nd attempts because I don't think to try recording something she hasn't done yet. I wait until I see her do it, then try recording the next one lol. I will TRY to remember to try to record her first attempt at something next time)

Tomorrow I will try to get...

Her back handspring on the floor.
Her round off back handspring on the trampoline.
Her level 3 beam dismount.
Cartwheel on the beam, handstand on beam, various jumps on the beam.
Am I missing anything? I don't see her getting the level 4 beam dismount without a spot just yet, but if by some miracle she does, I'll record that, too. (That is one she definitely did NOT get on her first try HAHA though I am surprised how well she does it with a spot!)

Of course, all her beam stuff is on a low beam and doesn't mean she will be able to do them on the high beam

(I hate sharing videos of 1st attempts/new skills/untrained skills because they look terrible and probably make her look LESS capable than she is, but hopefully these videos will be looked at for what they are)

 

[RileyG]

ok after seeing the video, you need to discuss with the coaches or change gyms. she has talent