WAG Whistleblowing

[Cmumgym]

This is exactly why I asked if all gyms had cameras. It is to protect the coach and also the gymnast. We have cameras everywhere and parents must sign an identity knowing this when enrolling. If a parent is not happy with this they don’t join and go somewhere else. It may not have voices in cases of emotional abuse but it does help tremendously when you have such a hands on sport. As well as this we educate parents by bringing them into to the gym to physically show them how we spot and how we stretch so that parents within the gym are aware. It also allows us to watch back if a child goes to a parent and over exaggerates anything. We Also have strict rules written on cardboard at each apparatus in recreational teams which all coaches must physically show the children before doing any apparatus as we had one child who did not listen to those rules and was injured “sprained ankle” the parent was very rude and abrupt until we showed the coach physically showing the rules on cardboard to all the gymnasts and then watched as their child disobeyed them and was very apologetic afterwards. Cameras are such an important approach in gymnastics and deffinatly helps to minimise those once in a while alleged alligations

 

[Omelianchik]

I was merely giving an example of a false accusation as well as agreeing with both arguments presented. I’m not “victim-shaming” and I hate that expression. There’s nothing unsafe about a discussion that presents both sides of an argument. It’s when the thread turns into personal attacks instead of a healthy discussion that the problems start. I feel like whenever someone brings up real concerns about false accusations, people don’t want to believe that it happens and ruins people’s lives. They get upset with the person who posts those thoughts, as if even suggesting that every claim of abuse may not be credible is a horrible thing (but I’ve seen it happen to 2 different people I know in different settings, but were both accused of abuse that was proven to not have happened). I was just joining the conversation and agreeing with both arguments.

Saying that false accusations are more common than people think is different from "suggesting every claim of abuse may not be credible" or "presenting both sides of the argument." I absolutely believe that victim shaming is not your intent, but insisting that false allegations are more common than people think, especially in response to a post about the importance of keeping in mind that false accusations are rare and being a whistle blower is extremely difficult, does have that effect because it contributes to a culture of being predisposed to disbelieve victims. (I really don't know what to make of your comment that you "hate the expression" victim shaming - surely we should hate the fact that it happens regularly and causes victims further pain and trauma?)

"I know a coach it happened to" is a valid counterargument to "false accusations never happen," but again, I have never seen anyone claim that they don't. In fact, as I have pointed out, the available evidence says people already significantly overestimate the rate of false allegations, and claiming otherwise creates a false narrative about how prevalent these cases are. Can people really not see that if you were a victim considering coming forward with a report, seeing posters constantly chime in with "you know, false accusations are more common than you'd think" would make you doubt whether you'd be believed? How could you NOT hesitate if you knew people thought false allegations were a common problem?

Again, I am not (and I don't think anyone else is) saying that false allegations never happen, or that we shouldn't be concern if the investigation processes are inadequate and don't protect coaches, but it simply isn't true that "people don't want to believe that it happens and ruins peoples lives." Case after case shows us exactly the opposite trend - people bend over backwards to dismiss and explain away credible accusations.

I'd suggest the link below if anyone is interested in understanding why focusing disproportionately on false allegations is so harmful. (It's posted by an organization that supports male survivors of sexual abuse and assault and approaches the question from that angle, but the point applies I think it does a good job of explaining the issue clearly).

Link Removed

 

[UGA2016]

Not saying the investigative process I’m about to state below is right but this is where it becomes subjective because an investigator would want to know why did you knowingly allow your DD to stay in an abusive environment if it was so bad? It begins to water down the claim. Then it forces an investigator to have to determine whether the environment was a strict tough environment vs an abusive environment and all the facts and totality of the circumstances would be considered. Including whether or not you willingly allowed your daughter to stay in such an environment. They must ask themselves would you have stayed had you gotten a different outcome? I.E. made it to level 10, made it to Nationals, got a college scholarship, made it elite?

I understand your thought process here suggesting an environment may not be what is being portrayed to be if parents continue to allow their children to attend but please consider the following -

1. Parents are often conditioned to accept certain (often abusive) practices as part of the elite training regimen.
2. Parents may not recognise the coaches behaviours as abusive until they are no longer immersed in the environment.
3. Parents may put complaints in/attempt to rectify abusive coaching practices before removing their child from may possibly be the only club in their area to cater for their child’s level of sport.
4. It is dangerous to state a case should not be considered because parents allowed their children to be subjected to destructive behaviours. If a coach is found to be abusive they should be reprimanded for their actions.

A case was publicised in the UK of a high level coach who had complaints raised by a number of parents in 2012 with apparently little or no action taken. The same coach was under police investigation 5 years later for child cruelty charges within the gymnastics setting. This was a clear case of parents being disbelieved or behaviours being minimised in favour of the coach with the governing body allowing an abusive coach to continue. We have seen this pattern with abuse claims in the US especially if the coach is of good standing within USAG. I believe this coach has not yet returned to coaching although no outcome has been published anywhere. Link to newspaper article below.

British Gymnastics coach under investigation over athlete abuse claims

There have been allegations of abuse by parents of young gymnasts going back several years

www.theguardian.com

The original post was to highlight how difficult it can be to come forward with genuine safeguarding concerns and the cost to the whistleblower in doing so. These feelings can only be magnified each time the idea of false reporting is thrown out there. Yes it does happen, but yes it is still thankfully extremely rare. For example - a study over a 40 month period into abuse allegations in soccer found only 1 out of 132 allegations to be false. As stated previously, the biggest issue faced by investigators is securing enough evidence to reach the criminal threshold to prosecute. Without this it makes it extremely difficult for governing bodies to place appropriate sanctions on abusive coaches. A quote from the research suggests ‘significantly more children are likely to be abused and either not report this or see their perpetrator released without conviction than adults are to experience an unfounded allegation of abuse.’

 

[Faith]

A case was publicised in the UK of a high level coach who had complaints raised by a number of parents in 2012 with apparently little or no action taken. The same coach was under police investigation 5 years later for child cruelty charges within the gymnastics setting

interestingly, The above coach was subject of a few threads on here. At one point there were many videos circulating of training sessions at the club.

I say Interestingly because we all think we know the signs on here. We are informed, we know what to look out for.

yet every single thread about this coach and their gymnasts was positive. The good relationship with the kids they seemed to have. Getting down and conditioning alongside. How all the kids were amazing, with incredible form and the attention to detail was phenomenal.

not one person said hang on- something isn’t right. i knew a very close friend of that coach who didn’t know what was going on, and they trained in the same gym on occasion.

a very careful public image was constructed.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

interestingly, The above coach was subject of a few threads on here. At one point there were many videos circulating of training sessions at the club.

Interesting... I think you have given enough info to confirm my long time suspicion as to which coach it was. So many talented gymnasts just gone from the sport. I am still upset that one just disappeared from the sport right when she should have been making her mark. Not surprised however given the rumors about what the coach did.

I feel like there is a prevalence of mental illness/lack of emotional stability within the coaching community - not sure if it's the job or just easier for some to live in their gymnastic bubble and avoid having to speak with another adult. Naturally they stay in the sport and don't seek a life outside of that comfort zone. I know plenty of coaches who were a lot more likable and happy, once they took that step and moved on from the sport.

 

[GymnasticsHeather]

To me the problem with the way the system of reporting abuse is set up is that it is SO hard to prove outright abuse in the gymnastics community. We have a situation at our gym where the female coach is IMO an abuser. She expects the girls to say yes and do everything she says even if it is unsafe. If they say no they are disrespectful. It's a "She said she said" type thing. Nothing is outright abusive she's giving them assignments. The girls say they are over the top too many. She claims she didn't see them do an assignment so start over again at zero. She punishes them constantly with rope climbs. She calls it conditioning. Girl says something hurts. She calls them disrespectful and they should do it anyway. She tattles on them if they don't do something to head coach. Parents go to the management. Management does nothing. They talk to the coach. Coach insists the girls are being disrespectful and not listening to her. Management always sides with the coach. But is any ONE thing abuse that can be proven? Not really. But you add it all up and it IS abusive. This is where the problem lies within USAG. Too many coaches like this. Coaches say they are doing nothing wrong and technically some aren't. But some are abusing their power like her.

 

[amiandjim]

GymnasticsHeather....May I ask why you allow your child to stay?

 

[txgymfan]

To me the problem with the way the system of reporting abuse is set up is that it is SO hard to prove outright abuse in the gymnastics community. We have a situation at our gym where the female coach is IMO an abuser. She expects the girls to say yes and do everything she says even if it is unsafe.

Why is this still your gym? Even if the coach is not abusing your child directly. I truly don’t understand.

 

[GymnasticsHeather]

Why is this still your gym? Even if the coach is not abusing your child directly. I truly don’t understand.

Year long contract. They refuse to let anyone out of. Management sides with coaches and the GIRLS are the problem.

It's literally gas lighting. The evil woman coach has an answer for everything. Girls speak up. It's disrespect. Girls do the outrageous assignment, coach says she doesn't see it. Girls attempt to refuse punishment, coach tells management they don't
listen. Management refuses to hear.

 

[raenndrops]

Year long contract. They refuse to let anyone out of. Management sides with coaches and the GIRLS are the problem.

It's literally gas lighting. The evil woman coach has an answer for everything. Girls speak up. It's disrespect. Girls do the outrageous assignment, coach says she doesn't see it. Girls attempt to refuse punishment, coach tells management they don't
listen. Management refuses to hear.

A year long contract is actually unenforceable. They would have to take you to small claims court and the judge wouldn't side with them after hearing what you are dealing with.
Hell, you could contact child protective services and tell them you don't know if what is going on qualifies as abuse, but it might ... and they can start an investigation.

 

[Natasha]

A year long contract is actually unenforceable. They would have to take you to small claims court and the judge wouldn't side with them after hearing what you are dealing with.
Hell, you could contact child protective services and tell them you don't know if what is going on qualifies as abuse, but it might ... and they can start an investigation.

In many states DSS only investigates cases of abuse in the home or by a parent, they do not accept other reports.

 

[txgymfan]

Gymnastics is temporary, abuse stays with a person for a lifetime.

I strongly suggest you leave the gym even if it means leaving the sport. Teach your child it is unacceptable to treat someone with disrespect. I try to give parents every benefit of the doubt in these situations but by admitting you allow your child to be emotionally abused you are condoning the behavior and teaching her to think she can be treated this way.

Trust me. Your child’s mental health is worth more than the contract, more than gymnastics trophy’s, more than her tears at quitting the gym.

 

[LJL07]

In many states DSS only investigates cases of abuse in the home or by a parent, they do not accept other reports.

Yes, this is correct. There is really no recourse for this type of abuse which is again why USAG’s mismanagement of these complaints is so disappointing and terrible. And people stay in these abusive situations because of “contracts,” fear of retaliation and harassment from the coaches, lack of options, etc.

 

[GymnasticsHeather]

Yes, this is correct. There is really no recourse for this type of abuse which is again why USAG’s mismanagement of these complaints is so disappointing and terrible. And people stay in these abusive situations because of “contracts,” fear of retaliation and harassment from the coaches, lack of options, etc.

That is not right that this behavior is allowed. In this situation the girls are level 9 and 10, college bound athletes so "making" your daughter quit and dealing with her tears is easier said that done. The area does not have a lot of options. The gym would be fine if the evil coach would be fired. It was great in the past.

 

[txgymfan]

That is not right that this behavior is allowed. In this situation the girls are level 9 and 10, college bound athletes so "making" your daughter quit and dealing with her tears is easier said that done. The area does not have a lot of options. The gym would be fine if the evil coach would be fired. It was great in the past.

I never said it would be easy. Neither is dealing with the long term consequences of emotional abuse. See a therapist together. You can pull her. You are the parent.

You have admitted that you are allowing her to be abused. There are other sports that gymnasts have great success in, diving, tumbling, acrobatics, track, weight lifting, high jump, pole vaulting, cross fit. Encourage her to try them.

 

[raenndrops]

In many states DSS only investigates cases of abuse in the home or by a parent, they do not accept other reports.

So glad that in my state they also investigate other people abusing children (neither in the home or by the parent is a requirement), but it often starts with a police report which gets passed on to CPS.

 

[OrchidZ]

I have hesitated to add to this discussion because of the variety of unpleasant emotions it brings. I'm incredibly impressed and grateful to those who have chimed in with reasonable, balanced opinions. Thank you specifically to Omelianchik and UGA2016 and probably more but I won't go back to re-read and get more names.

Can people really not see that if you were a victim considering coming forward with a report, seeing posters constantly chime in with "you know, false accusations are more common than you'd think" would make you doubt whether you'd be believed? How could you NOT hesitate if you knew people thought false allegations were a common problem?

Agreed. I can not imagine many people say, "Oh, hurray! I get to report a negative situation and have everyone judge my every decision - like why I allowed my child to continue as long as I did - and then put my kid in a situation where they are the subject of gossip in and out of the gym!"
I have a good friend who pulled her daughter from the sport over mental, emotional, and physical abuse. And yes, I know 100% it's true. I encouraged her to report it, if nothing else, for the girls that remained. I encouraged her to move her girl to a new gym; there's one nearby known for being a positive but still very competitive gym. She refused both. She said others in her former gym know what's going on (true. even fellow coaches) and if they want to deal with it, they can. For her part, her daughter had been through enough. She wasn't going to subject her to any more ever again. As for moving gyms, never. She believes that this is just the way the sport is, and it's not worth it. The experience left her bitter against the sport as a whole. Thaaaanks, Gymnastics World. It's a shame because that girl loved - and still loves - this sport. AND she was very good at it.

If our community held these coaches and gym owners responsible. If there were any requirements to be a coach beyond getting a basic "Fundamentals of Gymnastics Instruction" certification, a background check, and Safe Sport certification. If *all* gym owners/managers/coaches were more interested in the personal growth of the people - adults and kids - that walk through their doors instead of their reputations and their fear of getting sued. If gym parents with an "I didn't see it, so it must be false" attitude would reserve judgement. If if if.

I thought we learned this lesson with Nassar. Didn't we? Maybe a complaint is true, maybe it's not. I'd rather something be investigated and then dismissed than brushed under the carpet until it's too big to avoid anymore. Or, if in doubt and in the case of non-physical abuse, make a note of complaints and, if you see a trend, then investigate fully.

What if, instead of the attitude that every complaint or concern is the end of the world for someone, we see them as areas of growth? If I report something that concerns me to a gym, it's because it has moved beyond that point where I've already tried to help my child work through it herself and am now concerned for my child and possibly the coach/gym. Should that not be welcomed? Gym owners and gym managers are not above this. They can learn and grow as well. If taking a concern to a gym owner doesn't change things and there is a serious concern, the parent needs a next level of recourse. It doesn't make the gym owner/manager/coach/parent/or child a bad person. It just means that mediation is needed to determine what, if anything, needs to change for the sake of the athletes, the community, and the sport.

I understand your thought process here suggesting an environment may not be what is being portrayed to be if parents continue to allow their children to attend but please consider the following -

1. Parents are often conditioned to accept certain (often abusive) practices as part of the elite training regimen.
2. Parents may not recognise the coaches behaviours as abusive until they are no longer immersed in the environment.
3. Parents may put complaints in/attempt to rectify abusive coaching practices before removing their child from may possibly be the only club in their area to cater for their child’s level of sport.
4. It is dangerous to state a case should not be considered because parents allowed their children to be subjected to destructive behaviours. If a coach is found to be abusive they should be reprimanded for their actions.

THAT ^ ^ ^

This is something that I really wish people who haven't been in these kinds of situations could really understand. The idea that people only complain when their kid is no longer winning is infuriating. Would they dare say that to McKayla Maroney? Or any of the other elites who joined the case against Nassar?

These are children. Children who were taught starting in preschool or by age 6 that they are always wrong and the coach is always right. Parents are told "We know what we are doing. This is our job and our area of expertise, not yours." When simpler issues arise in the early years, both are conditioned and taught that they simply don't know what they are talking about.. that it is better to just stay silent and keep going - or there are consequences. This is done with manipulation on all kinds of levels. Situations and events are manipulated. Kids are blamed. Parents are blamed. Parents are labeled helicopter parents. The kid returns to the gym to find themselves in a fishbowl and with a coach who is grumpy with them. Gym is even harder for them for a while. The kids learn early to hide things from their parents because it's just easier that way. It's the "Frog in a pot of water" analogy. It starts out simpler and easier, but as that heat slowly builds, it's hard to see the danger when you're inside the pot. Not only that, but the level of involvement in some of these gyms is just incomprehensible from the outside. It literally takes every ounce of everything everyone has just to keep up. Why are you more likely to hear from a parent or gymnast when they are no longer winning? I think it's because they've been in fight-or-flight mode for so long that they really can't see it all. When they have really tried to get their heads around it all.. it's just too big. It's too much. And then they have to jump back in again. When an injury or issue forces you to slow down for any longer period of time, you get the chance to better process it. Things come out from the child or others that you didn't realize. That timing isn't about retaliation. It's not about revenge because someone is no longer on top. The lack of compassion shown to families in this situation is appalling. No wonder so many just walk away silently. Or rather, semi-silently. That family's closest friends and teammates know, but they are in the same situation.. head down, working and surviving. An athlete leaving a team is like watching someone get voted off the island: everyone else just gets back to work.

Yeah, reporting can mean a coach's job on the line. And/Or the gym owner's livelihood too. I can understand the fear of being used as a scapegoat. I can understand that there are just so many problems with the whole system that simply slapping anything that moves isn't going to help. But coaches and gym owners need to be part of the solution. We all want (or should want) the same thing - we want these athletes to be able to be healthy, strong, and the best person and athlete they can be. Strength doesn't come from beating down the athletes to find the survivors. It doesn't come from denying the possibility of an issue. It comes from constructive criticism and building a strong base, working up from there.

At least in the case I'm familiar with, the gym/coach will never admit their mistakes. They are too afraid of the repercussions (no, that is not just an opinion.) How do you change a culture like that? Until or unless they are willing to stand up for what is right and change this, we need our whistleblowers. If a coach is reported and then vindicated, great. False reports can be discovered. But until they are, please reserve judgement even when, like so many in the early days of the Nassar case, you think you KNOW the truth.

 

[OrchidZ]

Adding, I'm not trying to indicate that these parents are just too busy to notice there are concerns. They do. It's just a tough, overwhelming situation.

 

[SonshineMamaJH]

Fascinating discussion.

my daughter was bullied this summer twice. Once by a coach and once a teammate.

one we reported to the gym w specific examples and how it violated the safesport policy. Let them
Know we expected it to stop immediately. (Our daughter was told by a coach more than to ignore her restrictions while returning from a spinal stress fracture. Then when she continued to refuse and stick w the PTs restrictions, the coach made some derisive comments abt her work ethic and some other things). I sent an extremely long email to our team coordinator and was thanked for bringing it to the gyms attention and it stopped. Then the main coach approached me and thanked me for informing them and told us how they wanted it handled in the future (either tell another coach ASAP or walk out and call a parent if too afraid To tell a coach!) they expected the behavior to stop immediately but in case it didn’t, they gave permission for her to walk out of the gym!!! The behavior hasn’t recurred once and the coach is now actually appropriate to Dd so I’m not sure what our gym did but they refused to tolerate the behavior.

the second time my dd was bullied was by a teammate. dd(14) identifies as queer and is “out of the closet” w her team. Most have been non chalant but one started making fun. Every stumble or misstep was because she was gay. Dd kept telling her to stop (didn’t tell us) by the 4th incident of dd saying stop and that she didn’t like it, the child called her a fag. We told dd to handle it or we go to a coach. We said it’s gone too far and either she stops it or we do. She texted the girl and said it needs to stop immediately. Said it might be funny to girl but was not funny. The girl stopped and didn’t happen again. The girl stopped speaking to dd for a few weeks but now seems to be polite and distant. Yes We have waited to report. This has been about 2 months now.

iF one more incident occurs we will go the gym, but we felt it was important dd have the chance to stand up for herself and be empowered not to tolerate that. I spent hours crying praying and getting advice from my confidants and we had her discuss w her talk therapist. With her therapists help, We decided to let dd tell us how she wanted to handle it. Then we followed up. She got
To the point of “mom, sheesh I get the third degree abt gymnastics every night!” BUT no way we’re we leaving her to be bullied abt her sexuality.

As it sits now, things are peaceful but I provided the level of detail becaise I wondered if things escalated if shed be one of those stories people thought “they ignored this for six months, how do we know it was true?”

I will say it’s why i wanted her texting (time/date stamp). we put safeguards in place after how the coach incident was handled “go straight to head coach and say now X is teasing me abt being gay” or “leave and call us.” We know her gym wouldn’t tolerate the behavior. I’ve often wondered if as a parent I should’ve told the gym or if I still should. Sigh....