why are half of the DANCE moves in gymnastics so weird and awkward looking?

[amberdezi]

i mean, i have always wondered why some of gymnasts' dance moves (even elite gymnasts) are so awkward and kind of lame? i mean, dont get me wrong, i am a huge gymnastics fan, and i know that gymnasts are extremely coordinated, but shouldnt they be doing more graceful dance moves? i feel like floor routines would look SO much better if we all started doing dancer-like dance moves mixed with gymnastics, rather than the traditional gymnast dance moves. i dont know, maybe its just me, but i have had several other fellow gymnasts and coaches agree with me. again, i dont mean to be rude...i am just confused why gymnastics doesnt use more modern and cute dance moves.

 

[kateybee . (:]

i feel the same way!

 

[cher062]

i mean, i have always wondered why some of gymnasts' dance moves (even elite gymnasts) are so awkward and kind of lame? i mean, dont get me wrong, i am a huge gymnastics fan, and i know that gymnasts are extremely coordinated, but shouldnt they be doing more graceful dance moves? i feel like floor routines would look SO much better if we all started doing dancer-like dance moves mixed with gymnastics, rather than the traditional gymnast dance moves. i dont know, maybe its just me, but i have had several other fellow gymnasts and coaches agree with me. again, i dont mean to be rude...i am just confused why gymnastics doesnt use more modern and cute dance moves.

I'm no expert but from what I have seen I think it depends on the gymnast, the music and the transitions needed to get to the tumbling.
I've seen cute moves, classical moves, bellydancer moves, pre-school feeling moves etc

I think alot has to do to with the coaches wants with the routines.

 

[Linsul]

The mentality and goals of a dancers and gymnasts are more different than the phyiscal differences in their skills. A dancer isn't an athlete, they're an artist. Gymnasts very often get dance training minus the dance mentality. Conveying an emotion through movement isn't generally covered, it's all about technical correctness. There's a distinction between doing it 'right' and doing it beautifully; creating a personal style, an aesthetic, and compelling people to watch you rather than merely expecting it. Judges are supposed to watch, being satisfied with that is what most gymnasts are taught. I think that contributes to the general disdain many gymnasts have for dance.

All that soft flowy movement is deceptive, there is form, tightness, strength, and coordination required. Hiding the effort and showing the movement is something that is prized in a dancer. They get that point driven home because they aren't athletes. Learning how to do that is hard, most don't consider it until they're trying to do it. If a gymnast walks into it thinking it's just loose fingers and bent elbows, I could see them becoming discouraged and disliking it. Coaches may not want to work through it if dedicated dance time is perceived as torture by their gymnasts. I think it's best started young, but can be learned at any age. Provided the distinction between gym and dance is met. Gymnasts can reconcile the 2 mentalities on their own as they train both. When they get that synergy between athlete and artist, they're the most exceptional performers in the world!

 

[Flippers Mom]

I believe that part of the problem is time - gymnasts put a lot of hours in at the gym and most don't have much time left for dance lessons. Flipper loves both dance and gymnastics. She spent years trying to do both and finally had to give up dance in order to spend more time in the gym. When the choreographer was working with her on her floor routine, I heard her sigh under her breath, "Finally, someone who can dance." Mind you, many of the other girls on team do a nice job with the dance in their routines, but years of dance does show and floor scores reflect that. It could be that the gymnast you have watched just haven't had time to squeeze dance lessons into an already busy schedule. That and modern dance lends itself to upbeat routines and just doesn't flow as nicely.

 

[hawaii_gymnast]

Well i think it mostly depends on the coach, i agree that most of the dance is gross looking but then again some choreography looks AMAZING!

I think its mostly because gymnasts generally focus more on their tumbling then their dance, i take dance through gymnastics and all that we work on is leaps and turns. Then we do our choreography when we are on floor.

I think for elite its because they have so many tumbling lines and don't want to be tired out by little almost pointless awkward dances.

 

[Linsul]

Another contributing factor to dance being rarely seen is how it's taught in gym. The rigidity of a block of time where it's taught and then not brought up again, maybe even rigidity of the workout altogether. If time is needed on actual skills, there may not be any left over to play with dance outside the scheduled time on an event like beam or floor. That's the hardest part for me personally. What I usually do is give them a skill and a jump, and tell them to do what they want with their arms. Or ask them for a pattern using a cartwheel and any other movement of choice as we do our splits. That gives them time to come up with something. One girl did a cartwheel, jumped into a half turn in passe, stepped out to a lunge and immediately cartwheeled again, it looked really cool and she thought of it herself. It's a simple way to work some creativity or self expression in what the girls do, they very often surprise me with their arms or what they'll attempt given a choice. Even the little ones!

 

[cher062]

The mentality and goals of a dancers and gymnasts are more different than the phyiscal differences in their skills. A dancer isn't an athlete, they're an artist.

Ok stepping on my soap box for a moment here.

When I was young I did dance from 3yo until the dance studio moved to where I couldn't go at 16yo. yes there is artistic elements to dance but a dancer is an athlete! If they are serious like our gymmies then they too put in long hours. Instead of rips and bleeding hands they have painful and bleeding feet. Lots of leg and foot injuries. As a former dancer who did tap, jazz, ballet and toe I can tell you it wasn't easy- every day after school for 3 - 4 hours a day. If you missed a day a DR note better be in your hand when you returned. The physical differences I would say are different and similar at the same time and equally as hard.

Ok stepping down from soap box.

 

[Linsul]

Ok stepping on my soap box for a moment here.

When I was young I did dance from 3yo until the dance studio moved to where I couldn't go at 16yo. yes there is artistic elements to dance but a dancer is an athlete! If they are serious like our gymmies then they too put in long hours. Instead of rips and bleeding hands they have painful and bleeding feet. Lots of leg and foot injuries. As a former dancer who did tap, jazz, ballet and toe I can tell you it wasn't easy- every day after school for 3 - 4 hours a day. If you missed a day a DR note better be in your hand when you returned. The physical differences I would say are different and similar at the same time and equally as hard.

Ok stepping down from soap box.

I'm confused as to why you quoted me for the soapbox response, I already acknowledged the physical exertion of dance, the deception of it 'looking easy'. Painters use brushes, dancers use their bodies, they are both artists of different mediums. Dancers and athletes have a lot in common physically, doesn't change that there will forever be a distinction between a performance art and a sport. As far as dance experience goes, you're preaching to the choir! My post history doesn't include any statement on gym or dance in regard to which is harder.

 

[gymgurl]

Ok stepping on my soap box for a moment here.

When I was young I did dance from 3yo until the dance studio moved to where I couldn't go at 16yo. yes there is artistic elements to dance but a dancer is an athlete! If they are serious like our gymmies then they too put in long hours. Instead of rips and bleeding hands they have painful and bleeding feet. Lots of leg and foot injuries. As a former dancer who did tap, jazz, ballet and toe I can tell you it wasn't easy- every day after school for 3 - 4 hours a day. If you missed a day a DR note better be in your hand when you returned. The physical differences I would say are different and similar at the same time and equally as hard.

Ok stepping down from soap box.

well, cher062, i agree that dancing is physically demanding (i danced for around 12 years) and yes i got tired and it was exercise and it was exhausting but i do not classify it as a sport. But just because it is not a sport does not mean that it isn't physically demanding. You will probably hate me for saying this but i can't find a better analogy, and it is a very poor one at that. It is a bit like going to the gym (not gymnastics gym but one with treadmills, cross trainers, ergs, bikes, weight machines etc. Going to the gym is exhausting but since when is going to the gym a sport. its not it is a form of exercise. Don't get me wrong dancing is incredibly hard work and is much prettier to watch that some person running at the gym on a treadmill. The reason i classify it as an art is because if you go to a performing arts school you learn dance. The second reason is that the judging is subjective as opposed to objective. In rugby a try is worth x number of points, in basketball a goal is x number of points depending on where you are standing, in gymnastics there are set deductions but dance isn't marked like that it is judged on its aesthetics and of course its technicality but last time i checked anyway you are given a credit, distinction or high distinction in dance estedfords (that was so spelt wrong but i have no clue how to spell it) it is not like 0.5 off for a fall or 0.1 for a bent leg or whatever the deduction may be. just because dance is and art does not mean its not physically demanding

 

[Stretchsportguy]

Basically neither a coach, nor gymnast, nor judge, gives dance the patience that is due because what counts for a high score is the rest. If dance were important then there would be a specific measure for it in the rules and we would work to comply with it.

The result is what you see...we comply with what's there. If we want more then we are going to have to write it in. For now if someone wants to flaunt their ability to dance then they will add entertainment value to the sport without due credit for it and risk taking up time they don't have plus expending precious energy they need for the stuff that counts.

 

[katemoss1]

I think Hollie Vise was a great dancer. She was really fluid, soft esp. her last routine she did to libertango = <3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuseO0iX40M And her newer one to apologize is nice too. YouTube - Hollie Vise - Floor - 2010 Oklahoma vs Florida
Nastia (if you watch her performances on G&SS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWYUSKXde48 ) and Alicia are ok.
Shawn Johson is a really bad dancer (yes she was good on DWTS) but in combination with gymnastics she looks rediculous. Esp. here… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvEzGlVa9qw that „head shake“ she does in the middle is almost painful to watch J And there is one move from her floor routine in 2006 (the one she did to Highway Blues.. after her first tumbling pass she does a really awkward move.. I think ist really funny.

 

[Stretchsportguy]

Here you go...now why would any gymnast in their right mind make this more than it has to be???...someone define, "Dance Passage"

Requirements:
Dance Passage w/ min. of 2
different Group 1 elements (directly
or indirectly connected) - one a
LEAP w/ 180° cross or side split

Here's a dance script if the rules were different and gave credit for dance...


Celtic Kittens


Choreographed by Maggie Gallagher (January 2006)
32 count 4 wall Intermediate level line dance with a 4 count tag after wall 6.
Music : “Celtic Kittens” from the “Celtic Tiger” album by Michael Flatley (130bpm)
Intro : There is a 55 second instrumental section followed by 32 counts of dance rhythm. This is a long intro totalling 1 min 10 secs. Start after this time elapses.
The dance moves in an Anti-Clockwise direction.

(MOVING TO THE RIGHT) TOE TAP HEEL CROSSES, SIDE SWITCHES, SCUFF, HITCH CROSS
1&2 Tap right toe behind left heel (keeping weight on left), Step right to right side, Tap left heel across right toe
&3&4 Step onto left in place, Tap right toe behind left heel (keeping weight on left), Step right to right side, Tap left heel across right toe
&5 Step left next to right, Point right to right side
&6 Step right next to left, Point left to left side
& Step left next to right
7&8 Scuff right forward, Hitch right, Cross right over left

(MOVING TO THE LEFT) TOE TAP HEEL COSSES, SIDE SWITCHES, SCUFF, HITCH
CROSS
1&2 Tap left toe behind right heel (keeping weight on right), Step left to left side, Tap right heel across left toe
&3&4 Step onto right in place, Tap left toe behind tight heel (keeping weight on right), Step left to left side, Tap right heel across left toe
&5 Step right next to left, Point left to left side
&6 Step left next to right, Point right to right side
& Step right next to left
7&8 Scuff left forward, Hitch left, Cross left over right

STEP BACK, SIDE, RIGHT CROSS SHUFFLE, SIDE, 1/2 TURN RIGHT, LEFT
SHUFFLE
1,2 Step back on right, Step left to left side
3&4 Cross right over left, Step left to left side, Cross right over left
5,6 Step left to left side, 1/2 turn right stepping forward on right
7&8 Step forward on left, Step right beside left, Step forward on left

FULL TURN LEFT, RIGHT MAMBO. ROCK, RECOVER, STEP, 1/4 RIGHT,
CROSS LEFT OVER RIGHT
1,2 1/2 turn left stepping back onto right, 1/2 turn left stepping forward onto left
3&4 Mambo forward onto right, Recover onto left, step right next to left
5,6 Rock back onto left, Recover onto right
7&8 Step forward onto left, 1/4 turn right with weight on right, Cross left over right

TAG – 4 COUNTS AFTER WALL 6 (Facing the back wall)


1/4 LEFT STEPPING BACK ON RIGHT, SIDE LEFT, RIGHT CROSS, LEFT ROCK & CROSS
1&2 1/4 turn left stepping back on right, Step left to left side, Cross right over left
3&4 Rock left to left side, Recover onto right, Cross left over right

 

[CoachGoofy]

My coaches back in the day said if it isn't a skill it can't get deducted (optionals, I know there's text deductions in compulsories), so there's no reason NOT to do dance that looks like dance if one has the capability.

Most any well conditioned athlete with some air awareness and the ability to get past fear can tumble. But it's not often you see a gymnast moving with the music AND flying. Being the one girl at a meet who can & does do both, that's an impression worth leaving.

 

[gymdog]

What stretch posted are actual "special requirements" for JO for the dance skills. i.e. leaps, jumps, turns. These are gymnastics skills. Just walking around the floor and doing those things with tumbling is not sufficient for a routine. The dance in the routine is different but it can be deducted for rhythm, foot faults, etc. If a routine is really outstanding dance wise it usually will score well, better than routines with equal tumbling that are not as outstanding dance wise. Therefore it is very important to try and get the best routine for the gymnast to minimize rhythm and body position problems and many optional coaches do try very hard in this regard to achieve that, because it affects how the routine is scored. That said, it's not a dance competition. "Good dance" for gymnastics is a bit different. And of course many of the NCAA level routines have gone to a hip hop style which is trickling down to older optionals trying to attract NCAA attention. This reflects the goal of making NCAA a spectator sport and many of the girls are more comfortable with this style of dance because they feel it's less embarassing, awkward, etc.

The compulsory routines, of course, do have a "script" for the dance on beam and floor.

 

[ZJsMom]

Right there's a distinction between choreography and artistic expression and dance elements from the COP. I don't know if the complaint is that the elements used for credit in gymnastics are unattractive or the choreography is lacking. I've definitely heard both complaints. There are a few elements that I find inherently ugly, but people keep doing them because they're in the code. The wolf jump is my biggest pet peeve. In general though I think the dance elements in gymnastics are attractive. On the second issue, there has been less emphasis on dance and artistic expression as the sport has evolved. I think it's just the way it's gone. There's more and more difficult tumbling in routines and less emphasis on choreography and artistry. Even given this trend, I think there are gymnasts who show beautiful dance and artistry.

 

[Stretchsportguy]

Like I said...the reason floor exercise tends to be sterile is because the color of artistry that comes from in a brush dipped in paint thinner for dance requirements comes out that way...

Basically neither a coach, nor gymnast, nor judge, gives dance the patience that is due because what counts for a high score is the rest. If dance were important then there would be a specific measure for it in the rules and we would work to comply with it.

The result is what you see...we comply with what's there. If we want more then we are going to have to write it in. For now if someone wants to flaunt their ability to dance then they will add entertainment value to the sport without due credit for it and risk taking up time they don't have plus expending precious energy they need for the stuff that counts.

Hi gymnastbeth...I included my latter post so that people could see that this present metaphor repeats what I previously said. In other words I am repeating myself to get the point across in a more eloquent manner. My hope is that this time I will get through to people for as much as they don't like it when I do...kinda awkward and wierd, don't you think?

 

[gymnastbeth]

Like I said...the reason floor exercise tends to be sterile is because the color of artistry that comes from in a brush dipped in paint thinner for dance requirements comes out that way...

Sorry but... could someone translate this for me? I don't...really... understand it.

 

[Stretchsportguy]

Translation...gymnastics floor routines look lackluster (no sparkle, no color, no curb appeal) because the rules don't ask for much out of dance and if you go the extra mile and do more than the rules require then the rules do not specify that you are going to get any extra credit for making your dance better than the rules ask you to do it.

Fancy dance in a floor routine is like a waitress giving her table extra good service and expecting a tip when the sign clearly says "No Tipping"

 

[MdGymMom01]

So instead of doing something exciting and interresting, that people want to watch we should strive for mediocracy. Sorry if I went out to eat and there was a no tipping sign I would still want the waitress to go above and beyond, because she loves what she does.

Exactly!!! Part of gymnastics, and especially floor routines, is the entertainment factor. I would much rather watch a routine where the gymnast looks like she is enjoying what she is doing and giving that extra special something to the routine. Whether she gets a higher score or not than another routine, it is THAT routine and gymnast that I will remember.