WAG Xcel Friday morning sessions

[mommyof1]

Frankly, I put this on the gym owners not being more up front with team parents from the beginning when gymnasts are invited to team. Spell it all out for the parents so they know what they are getting themselves into before they accept the spot.

Yep, when they started recruiting my kid for preteam at age 4 no one mentioned the morning practices or Friday meets. They only mentioned morning practices when they handed out contracts for L3, when we were already in deep.

But also, why can't gym owners have afternoon practices in the summer and make meet participation optional when the session conflicts with school? I was told that the summer morning practices were merely for the convenience of the coaches, who were all schoolteachers with summers off. I learned through experience that the reason the gym wanted all the kids at every meet was that they were overly concerned with team scores even at the compulsory levels. The only reason I can think of that team scores are important at L3 is for marketing purposes.

 

[gymgal]

Yep, when they started recruiting my kid for preteam at age 4 no one mentioned the morning practices or Friday meets. They only mentioned morning practices when they handed out contracts for L3, when we were already in deep.

But also, why can't gym owners have afternoon practices in the summer and make meet participation optional when the session conflicts with school? I was told that the summer morning practices were merely for the convenience of the coaches, who were all schoolteachers with summers off. I learned through experience that the reason the gym wanted all the kids at every meet was that they were overly concerned with team scores even at the compulsory levels.

Morning practices are essential in some parts of the country because the gyms are hot boxes witha/c and ventilation that can't handle the summer heat. But also, morning practices usually mean less gymnasts - no rec, etc. So scheduling events is easier. And yeah, it's nice for coaches to be able to not have to work nights for several weeks. Not a coach but I can relate. We were at a gym where the parents decided which meets to go to but it was always stated that the more meets the gymnast attends, the more comfortable they will feel competing. This was always the case for mine. But I know others where it didn't matter.

And I agree that it's a balancing act. I feel that school personnel places way too much importance on everyone being present every single school day. I get it. It's hard on the teachers when students are out but there is a way to make case by case decisions instead of blanket policies. If a student is excelling, who cares? They are pursuing other interest because they don't need to spend as much time on school. We homeschooled but we would have had major issues with our local district b/c there were no exceptions. Miss 5 of the same class in a semester and you automatically fail. Regardless of your grade.

 

[Carly]

Yep, when they started recruiting my kid for preteam at age 4 no one mentioned the morning practices or Friday meets. They only mentioned morning practices when they handed out contracts for L3, when we were already in deep.

But also, why can't gym owners have afternoon practices in the summer and make meet participation optional when the session conflicts with school? I was told that the summer morning practices were merely for the convenience of the coaches, who were all schoolteachers with summers off. I learned through experience that the reason the gym wanted all the kids at every meet was that they were overly concerned with team scores even at the compulsory levels. The only reason I can think of that team scores are important at L3 is for marketing purposes.

The problem with making these optional when it conflicts with school is that the schedules don't usually come out until a few weeks before the meet. By then, you can't scratch and get a refund so either you lose out on the money and not go (if the gym would even be ok with that), or you have to attend.
Almost all of our meets this season are over 3 days. So if they were optional and she didn't want to miss school, she would miss most meets.

 

[ORgymmom]

At my daughter’s elementary school, kids are getting signed out for everything from soccer (similar tournament schedules to gymnastics meets) to the in-school drama productions, talent show, and spelling bee. The teachers who are in charge of the in-school events don’t want to stay late into the evening and it costs extra to have the facilities staff stay late and close the building late. We are at a parochial school so I’m sure it’s even more complicated with public school system contracts. The parents who used to volunteer to run these events are part of dual-career families, so they can’t easily staff events that start at 3 or 4 pm. Since everything school-related gets bumped into the school day anyway I don’t feel bad about the missed days for gymnastics. My daughter does, though!

 

[JBS]

But also, why can't gym owners have afternoon practices in the summer and make meet participation optional when the session conflicts with school? I was told that the summer morning practices were merely for the convenience of the coaches, who were all schoolteachers with summers off. I learned through experience that the reason the gym wanted all the kids at every meet was that they were overly concerned with team scores even at the compulsory levels. The only reason I can think of that team scores are important at L3 is for marketing purposes.

This is all the truth. It all makes great sense too. There are very important reasons behind each one of the items that you listed. For example... and these are going to be my opinions...

why can't gym owners have afternoon practices in the summer

Usually... they can. Maybe just not the product they are serving up.

The team has more space in the mornings... gets the whole gym. We get the athletes fresh in the morning... it's a whole new world of training.

We have both morning and evening options in the summer... very few choose the evening option after a certain level. We get more complaints and more absences from the evening practice. And yes... the most experienced coaches work the morning practices in the summer. Working evenings and weekends all year long is a great way to lose coaches from the industry.

make meet participation optional when the session conflicts with school

I agree with this one... there would be no refund for the session though. This is a great idea up through Level 7 and all of Xcel. Level 8 and up I would mandate all meets.

I was told that the summer morning practices were merely for the convenience of the coaches, who were all schoolteachers with summers off.

It's very easy to find coaches that are good... but less experienced to take the evening workouts... people are typically not happy with that either.

I learned through experience that the reason the gym wanted all the kids at every meet was that they were overly concerned with team scores even at the compulsory levels. The only reason I can think of that team scores are important at L3 is for marketing purposes.

Two reasons... it is a team sport and most coaches want to win... and yes... marketing the team program is very easily done by performing well. Typically the better the gym is at business... the more resources they can provide their team. Doesn't always work this way... but clubs that don't have a solid business model typically struggle. Business models don't have to include winning low levels at team... but some do.

 

[TheXcelMom]

FYI
My daughter's coach said if she can't make her Friday morning meet, she can compete with her XB/XS/XP teammates in another session. Apparently, this is a thing, and it could work if she'd need it to qualify. I'd rather not because the team aspect is important, but maybe it'll help someone in a pinch.

 

[wandrewsjr]

FYI
My daughter's coach said if she can't make her Friday morning meet, she can compete with her XB/XS/XP teammates in another session. Apparently, this is a thing, and it could work if she'd need it to qualify. I'd rather not because the team aspect is important, but maybe it'll help someone in a pinch.

This happens not infrequently for religious reasons, if a kid is scheduled but can’t compete on a Saturday or Sunday(depending on the religion). Just judged a kid out of her regular level session the other day because of a close family members wedding. Usually not a problem as long as equipment is the same for the level. Gold would go best with the platinums(they might only have the resi vaults set up in the bronze/silver sessions).

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My daughters friend is currently missing 2 days of school for an out of state cheer competition.

You will not find anything anywhere that Xcel divisions won’t have Friday meet times.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

FYI
My daughter's coach said if she can't make her Friday morning meet, she can compete with her XB/XS/XP teammates in another session. Apparently, this is a thing, and it could work if she'd need it to qualify. I'd rather not because the team aspect is important, but maybe it'll help someone in a pinch.

They won’t be eligible for awards then as they won’t be with their level or age group. They can be judged/scored but no placement

 

[TheXcelMom]

They won’t be eligible for awards then as they won’t be with their level or age group. They can be judged/scored but no placement

She mentioned that but I forgot to put it in the post.

 

[Astraea_9]

We (and I mean WE because the entire family is affected) have THREE Friday 8am competition sessions this season.
That's three missed school days. Three missed work days.
Between now and regionals, there could be more Friday mornings.
This is our fourth Xcel competition season and we've had only one Friday session in the first three. Maybe I was just blind to the potential for an issue, but now that it's one on top of the other, I am *absolutely livid.*

We avoided the DP program for this exact reason.
This is not the promise of Xcel.
Livid. I don't even know who to be mad at, but I think it's the competition organizers.

BG: XG, 12YO, 6th grade.
Reposted from the group section b/c I'm still mad

My daughter is competing Bronze (training Silver) and we just had our first Friday session. Threw me for a loop. I was told this is more common at the lower levels because missing school is obviously more difficult once they have multiple classes like they do in middle and high school, but your experience seems to be the opposite.

I feel like it's especially hard because we don't even know which session it will be until fairly close to the date. For me the biggest issue is actually the hotels. If there is an early or late session we kind of need to book a hotel room, which seems like an extra expense that should be avoidable since the locations are typically within a couple hours drive. I love gymnastics but it is an expensive as hell sport.

As others said there is always the option to skip, but at least at my daughters gym they only compete about once a month so skipping any feels like missing out on a lot. When I was a kid we had games basically every weekend during the season (I did soccer primarily, did 2 years each of softball and basketball too) so missing one was no big deal.

I think the obvious solution would be to split Xcel and DP into different meets so that they could fit all the sessions into a weekend (or maybe have a few Friday afternoon sessions as needed) but I don't call the shots. I suspect the reason they don't do this is the extra work for the host gyms doing set-up and takedown more often. But with what we pay them they should be more accomodating.

 

[RTT2]

I think the obvious solution would be to split Xcel and DP into different meets so that they could fit all the sessions into a weekend (or maybe have a few Friday afternoon sessions as needed) but I don't call the shots. I suspect the reason they don't do this is the extra work for the host gyms doing set-up and takedown more often. But with what we pay them they should be more accomodating.

Unless the meet were in the host's gym it would mean paying rental fees two weeks in a row for the facilities, paying rental fees twice for all of the equipment, and, like you said, two weeks in a row of set up and break down. I can't imagine a gym could make $$ hosting a meet that way, so they do it all in one weekend.

And, if it were in the host's gym it would mean two weeks in a row of cancelled rec classes. Most gyms couldn't accommodate a large group of teams or spectators for a meet anyway.

 

[Astraea_9]

Unless the meet were in the host's gym it would mean paying rental fees two weeks in a row for the facilities, paying rental fees twice for all of the equipment, and, like you said, two weeks in a row of set up and break down. I can't imagine a gym could make $$ hosting a meet that way, so they do it all in one weekend.

And, if it were in the host's gym it would mean two weeks in a row of cancelled rec classes.

Why rent out a space and equipment? A gymnastics gym should already have those things. I have been to 3 meets, 1 was in a rented space, which seemed weird to me. The other two in the host gyms location. I don't know about the equipment for the rented space, I assume it came from the host gym. I did some of my volunteer hours doing the set-up at our home gym one, and everyone involved was unpaid volunteers. So were the admissions people and food sellers. I know the judges get paid, and if the coaches involved are hourly them too. The equipment was all ours. So it seems like a relatively inexpensive endeavor, though the man-hours are large. But that's why we have the volunteer hour requirement.

As for cancelling recreational classes - we are talking about 4 days of sessions that interfere with classes either way. It's just a matter of if they are Friday - Monday or two Saturdays and two Sundays. Since weekdays have more classes doing it over two weekends would actually seem beneficial in that regard.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Never going to make everyone happy.

When mine was younger I thought missing 4th grade was bad. Then middle school and now HSer taking college classes. A few Friday misses in 4th grade, cake….

 

[TumbleTimes4]

Why rent out a space and equipment? A gymnastics gym should already have those things. I have been to 3 meets, 1 was in a rented space, which seemed weird to me. The other two in the host gyms location. I don't know about the equipment for the rented space, I assume it came from the host gym. I did some of my volunteer hours doing the set-up at our home gym one, and everyone involved was unpaid volunteers. So were the admissions people and food sellers. I know the judges get paid, and if the coaches involved are hourly them too. The equipment was all ours. So it seems like a relatively inexpensive endeavor, though the man-hours are large. But that's why we have the volunteer hour requirement.

As for cancelling recreational classes - we are talking about 4 days of sessions that interfere with classes either way. It's just a matter of if they are Friday - Monday or two Saturdays and two Sundays. Since weekdays have more classes doing it over two weekends would actually seem beneficial in that regard.

I’m going to assume that you are new to the gym world. It’s not possible for every gym to host a meet. Our home gym would be a terrible set up for a meet. They just don’t have the necessary space for spectators. Also it’s not possible to host some of the larger meets, like Metroplex or Excalibur that host 3,000+ gymnasts, in a home gym. And it’s very expensive to rent out a convention center. If you split the meet into two weekends, the meet fees would most certainly go up to cover the costs. No thanks. I would much rather her miss a day or two of school than to pay higher fees.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

And for the record, it’s not just Xcel that get Friday report time. Our gym is DP only. 3 meets so far this year, at least one Friday session for some of our kids. And they were younger thankfully from my perspective.

 

[TheXcelMom]

And for the record, it’s not just Xcel that get Friday report time. Our gym is DP only. 3 meets so far this year, at least one Friday session for some of our kids. And they were younger thankfully from my perspective.

In my opinion, signing on to Xcel and signing on for DP are two totally different things, with different expectations for commitment.
We shall agree to disagree about whether or not that should entail organizers making an effort to exclude Xcel from school day competitions.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

For further perspectiv, 10 yrs ago, when we started. There was not much information that could be found online. And we rarely had report times more than a week out. It wasn’t unusual to get the schedule Wed for the upcoming weekend.

Now we get schedules 2-4 weeks out. And I’m thrilled

 

[TumbleTimes4]

In my opinion, signing on to Xcel and signing on for DP are two totally different things, with different expectations for commitment.
We shall agree to disagree about whether or not that should entail organizers making an effort to exclude Xcel from school day

The flexibility of the Xcel program refers specifically to skills and lower training hours during the week. I’m not sure why you think it should also extend to meet schedules. Xcel, while not as intense as DP, is still not a rec league or an entry level sport like your local YMCA league that only requires an hour or so of practice once a week and then hosts a game on the weekend. It’s still a serious competition league that requires a specific skill set. If you don’t want interference with school or work, that’s the purpose of rec leagues or in house teams. It’s no different than AAU basketball and volleyball travel leagues that boasts teams of varying skill leagues.

 

[JBS]

Something that no one has mentioned here... which I'm a bit surprised. There was never an issue getting competitions in on Friday nights and the weekend until after Xcel was created.