Parents Xcel or USAG? and a Gym Question

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ChicagoGymKids

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Hi!


I am new to the forum but have looked on here from time to time and have found the advice given really helpful. So I thought I would present my question to you more seasoned gymnastics parents. I have tried to educate myself about gymnastics but am basically a nerdy english teacher who carts my kids to practice but really doesn't know the ins and out of gymnastics.


I have twin girls who are 7 that both LOVE gymnastics and would do it everyday if they could. I actually have two questions. First question about whether the practices at the current girl seem normal. Currently one is in a "team Prep" for the USAG track and another is on a "training team" for AAU. I decided to look into moving them to a new gym because of some stuff I thought seemed a little off at first about this gym and then some stuff that seemed outright wrong. But never being a sports person on any level I am not sure if I don't just "get it". My daughter on the USAG pre team got picked out by the owner in parking lot grassy area about 3 months ago when she was doing a press handstand. She was in beginner three at the time. The owner decided that she had "the right body type" and announced I should put her in her pre-team for Level 3. No evaluation or anything. It seemed weird but I went with it. Once practices started (3 days a week, 2 hours each time) my daughter would often come out crying. She was told to "go home" when she would cry during prolonged periods of holding a handstand, made to sit out and watch the other kids on her pre-team when she would cry during conditioning, and comments that she was picked partly for her "exotic look". My daughter is part Filipino. The final blow was when one of coaches said my other daughter (who has amore muscular body) had the "wrong body type" in front of her. My other daughter has also gotten plenty of criticism directed at her in her training team but is so hyper focused that she says it doesn't bother her. So my first question is, is this type of stuff normal? Is it typical of gymnastics training to give lots of harsh criticism and have a hyper focus on body type?


Ok, second question. So I had both of the girl evaluated at another gym that they had done open gyms at where the feeling was much more upbeat and positive. My daughter that was on the "training team" for AAU got into an equivalent "preteam" for Xcel. They said she would most likely be moved to Xcel in June as she was really close. Great. My other daughter, the one who was on the "pre team" for USAG got into Level 3. I honestly do not want to go down the road of highly competitive gymnastics. I really liked the idea of Xcel as an opportunity to compete but not be doing gymnastics every day.


My daughter has other ideas. She is begging to do it. The other problem is as a single mom, I teach and the Level 3 class starts literally thirty minutes after my last class ends, we would ALWAYS be late. And it's 3 times the distance as the old gym. Is Xcel a totally different thing than the USAG track? Would a kids who loves gymnastics be happy doing it, or feel they "missed something"? Could she move over to the USAG track later if she wanted to? Would the coach even let her "step down" to Xcel after she tested into Level 3? Should I try somehow to make this happen for her? I just feel once we start down this road it will be harder and harder to break away from.


I haven't made any decisions yet, either about switching gyms or what I should do or not do about this Level 3 class.


I apologize for most likely saying various gymnastics terms incorrectly. Any advice would be MUCH appreciated.
 
Hi!

So my first question is, is this type of stuff normal? Is it typical of gymnastics training to give lots of harsh criticism and have a hyper focus on body type?

Nope, not normal.

Ok, second question. Is Xcel a totally different thing than the USAG track?

USAG includes Xcel and JO. So I think your questioning whether Xcel is totally different that JO and the answer to that is it depends on the gym. It was developed to be a less demanding option, but some gyms use it as an alternative to lower JO levels. In your case, since they placed one child in each track- it does seem like they are kept separate there and therefore JO probably would be much more demanding.

Would a kids who loves gymnastics be happy doing it, or feel they "missed something"?

I don't think 7 year olds would probably recognize any difference if they weren't told there was a difference. In the future there could be a chance they see that JO girls are doing more. But, Xcel still offers a very "real" gymnastics experience.

Could she move over to the USAG track later if she wanted to?

Again, I think you mean move to JO (since USAG includes both Xcel and JO) and while it does depend on the girl and the gym, the move from Xcel to JO happens way, way less frequently than a move in the other direction.

Would the coach even let her "step down" to Xcel after she tested into Level 3?
Yes, moving over to Xcel happens quite often for many reasons.

Should I try somehow to make this happen for her?
I think you should definitley ask what the future holds for a JO gymnast at your gym if time and budget are tight. With two gymnasts it is going to get very expensive, very fast. Even in Xcel unfortunately, but especially in JO. We've been in the sport only 3.5 years and my daughter now trains 30 hours a week and aside from our mortgage, its our largest expense- so, yeah...
 
@gymbeam pretty much answered it all.
Would a kids who loves gymnastics be happy doing it, or feel they "missed something"?
A 7 year old probably wouldn't notice a difference.
In JO, all the Level 3 gymnasts in the entire country do the same routine on every event… and floor routines are done to 1 of3 "versions" of the same music. SOOOOOO boring. This continues through Level 5. At Level 6-10, they get to have routines made up.
In Xcel, they have routines made up from the very beginning. At some gyms, Bronze and Silver division gymnasts may have limited choices of music and routines, but the entire country isn't doing the exact same thing. There are 5 divisions in Xcel (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond). The skills that gymnasts can do in Xcel can be easier or harder than the JO "equivalent" … because there are no real "equivalents."
 
Another excellent breakdown gymbeam.

I'm a little leery of the tone towards these kids coming from the gym.
 
I don't think it's too strange that the owner would see a 7yr old doing a press handstand and invite her to preteam. The other stuff from that gym, I wouldn't subject my kids to.
As far as Excel vs JO, I wish we had that option. I love watching my girls working at something they love, but I like them to be home sometimes too. Since you already know you don't want to go down the high hours route, imo don't get started on it. It will just be harder to 'move down' the farther she gets.
And, depending on your gym, much better chance of both girls being at the same meets. That's important for a single parent!
 
My opinion is that regardless of body type, if both your girls want to train 3x2 they should. That's not really a lot at that age. I had one child who always trained 9 hours as his general base throughout his career (wiped out his wrists and ankles by 10), plus conditioning at home so 6-10 he was always at 3x3 + homework basically. I have one that was in a low hours program because she isn't very good and had to do 3x2 for evvvvvah, and I guess started doing 3x3 at about age 12.

The problem is this tracking. Sigh.

Would love for you to find a gym where Miss Shiny wouldn't be pushed quite so hard and Miss Motivated would be pushed a little harder ... and let it all percolate for a year or two and see what comes out.
 
Are you sure you've looked at every gym in a reasonable distance? Your username says Chicago so I just wanted to make sure these are the two options. Before you commit to either of these teams (because they both seem to have various aspects that don't fit your family), I think you should look at all the options.
 
I will caveat this with that I only have the best wishes for you and your girls. With that said we have been at this awhile and have seen many come and go for many reasons. So, given that, I would caution you about JO if you are a single parent on a limited income with a restrictive schedule. Although it would be wonderful if this sport were accessible at the highest levels to everyone and all kids were treated equal,but that simply isn't the case. It is very expensive, VERY! The time and wallet commitment are not to be underestimated. Our entire life revolves around gymnastics. It eats up every extra second and every extra dollar.

I am also a strong believer that if you let your kid go down the path and get the bug (a gymnast is a special and unique being) then it is cruel to at a later date decide that you as a parent can't afford or handle the commitment and take it away. Think long and hard about whether this is something you can commit to or not. Your place in this situation and commitment to it matters and will make a difference to both your daughters down the road.

It seems that your girls may have different levels of commitment and natural talent. Unfortunately sometimes all the things don't align the way we want them to. I think it would be pretty normal for a coach to see a kid doing a press handstand and suggest they may be cut out for team. Many team kids never get a good press handstand. Many of my daughter's level 9 teammates have never had a press handstand and never will. If a kid outside of team can do a press handstand, that is a big deal.

But, I have seen many naturally talented kids come through who can't handle the discipline and the conditioning. Conditioning is hard and a huge part of gymnastics. Holding a handstand for a long time and tough conditioning is an every day part of JO gymnastics. If a kid doesn't like to condition or can't handle the pain (gymnastics hurts, it just does), then it can be difficult for them to progress very far on a JO team track.

Then you will see a super dedicated kid who just doesn't have the talent. They work so hard and commit so deeply only to be disappointed again and again.

But with all that said, there is also the kid in a program who supports all types of gymnasts who works hard and loves what they are doing and has a coaching staff that supports her where she is and she can plug away and keep moving forward and be very happy. It is all about finding the right program.

Sorry, I don't mean to ramble on (just ask, it is kinda what I do. LOL!) but it really comes down to knowing your kids and finding something that works for them. Honestly in your situation as a single parent on a fixed income with a schedule that doesn't support early release and one kid who has some talent, but maybe not the toughness necessary and one with a love and commitment but maybe not the natural talent, I would be looking for a high quality XCEL program that can support them both.

There is a gymnastics track for everyone, but not every track is for every gymnast. It is the unfair and unfortunate truth and something that is difficult for many parents to see.

One more thing I just thought about and seeing that you are in a major metropolitan area would be to find a YMCA program that might take them both. These programs a generally lower hours and less expensive, but can be very good quality programs.

Good luck to you and your girls!
 
That's a good point about cost. Look at the state meet and look for municipal teams and YMCA teams and see if they are subsidized.
Around here, six hours a week of pretty decent team at the YMCA was $75/month, meet fees were about $500 and they didn't go crazy on the clothes.
A private team could easily be double that for all three cost areas.
We used to have a county team where you could be an optional and still be paying $50/month. Unfortunately there was a scandal and that program got dismantled.
But other counties and cities around me do have programs, and resident gymnasts get some level of support from the rec department.
Given the high and long term cost of gymnastics, I have heard several stories of families relocating to be near a subsidized gymnastics program.
 
I will caveat this with that I only have the best wishes for you and your girls. With that said we have been at this awhile and have seen many come and go for many reasons. So, given that, I would caution you about JO if you are a single parent on a limited income with a restrictive schedule. Although it would be wonderful if this sport were accessible at the highest levels to everyone and all kids were treated equal,but that simply isn't the case. It is very expensive, VERY! The time and wallet commitment are not to be underestimated. Our entire life revolves around gymnastics. It eats up every extra second and every extra dollar.

I am also a strong believer that if you let your kid go down the path and get the bug (a gymnast is a special and unique being) then it is cruel to at a later date decide that you as a parent can't afford or handle the commitment and take it away. Think long and hard about whether this is something you can commit to or not. Your place in this situation and commitment to it matters and will make a difference to both your daughters down the road.

It seems that your girls may have different levels of commitment and natural talent. Unfortunately sometimes all the things don't align the way we want them to. I think it would be pretty normal for a coach to see a kid doing a press handstand and suggest they may be cut out for team. Many team kids never get a good press handstand. Many of my daughter's level 9 teammates have never had a press handstand and never will. If a kid outside of team can do a press handstand, that is a big deal.

But, I have seen many naturally talented kids come through who can't handle the discipline and the conditioning. Conditioning is hard and a huge part of gymnastics. Holding a handstand for a long time and tough conditioning is an every day part of JO gymnastics. If a kid doesn't like to condition or can't handle the pain (gymnastics hurts, it just does), then it can be difficult for them to progress very far on a JO team track.

Then you will see a super dedicated kid who just doesn't have the talent. They work so hard and commit so deeply only to be disappointed again and again.

But with all that said, there is also the kid in a program who supports all types of gymnasts who works hard and loves what they are doing and has a coaching staff that supports her where she is and she can plug away and keep moving forward and be very happy. It is all about finding the right program.

Sorry, I don't mean to ramble on (just ask, it is kinda what I do. LOL!) but it really comes down to knowing your kids and finding something that works for them. Honestly in your situation as a single parent on a fixed income with a schedule that doesn't support early release and one kid who has some talent, but maybe not the toughness necessary and one with a love and commitment but maybe not the natural talent, I would be looking for a high quality XCEL program that can support them both.

There is a gymnastics track for everyone, but not every track is for every gymnast. It is the unfair and unfortunate truth and something that is difficult for many parents to see.

One more thing I just thought about and seeing that you are in a major metropolitan area would be to find a YMCA program that might take them both. These programs a generally lower hours and less expensive, but can be very good quality programs.

Good luck to you and your girls!
Not sure of your exact location, but the Buehler YMCA is in the Chicago area and they have a great team program... And they even attend YMCA Nationals.
Another plus about a YMCA program is that YMCAs offer "scholarships" aka financial assistance to help make their programs even more affordable :)
 
In the Chicagoland area, a number of park districts also have gymnastics programs. Many of them are USAG and the costs are significantly less than a private club. Both of my daughters started in a park district USAG program and did very well.
 
Caveat: this is long and I'm not 100% sober.

I would ask the price difference in terms of Xcel vs JO as in our gym Xcel was more expensive compared to compulsory. Just depends on meet fees, number of meets, etc. If practice hours are substantially less, then tuition could be as well, but this isn't a big difference until you are looking at JO Optionals vs Xcel for like ages. If you pick a gym that is training kids well, it doesn't matter at age 7, really, so long as the coaches for both tracks are equally motivated to coach your kids to their strengths and weaknesses. Often kids who work hard will catch up to their talented peers who just show up in a couple years...so long as coaching is good. If your less ideal body at 7 is the type A determined type and really loves it, I would find a place that either a) doesn't type cast at age 7 or b) if they do, has great xcel coaches. Often in gyms where kids get excluded early like that, they divert resources to the more talented kids on JO. I'm not a fan of that if resources are scarce. If not, fine. But I do not like to see a 16 year old who just started coaching, as lead coach on Xcel, for example. That happens b/c running a gym profitably is very, very, hard and 16 year olds have good backs and work for way less ;). Nothing against teens being part of the coaching program. Safety first. Ask about certifications of coaches, if they have attended continuing education, etc. Staff turnover? Look at team turnover, are they losing 4+ kids per year on a single team. All gyms lose kids, but for example, if there is high turnover in an xcel program that you are being offered, ask questions. Coach to kid ratio, this can be important. Look for lower ratios in a gym that isn't militant. Well organized coaches can get alot done with more kids. At age 7, I would ask about the size of team, if it's capped, and how many coaches will be working directly with that group per practice. You want probably 8:1 or less at age 7-8 as ideal. No more than 12:1, that is a red flag, exceptions exist, but I would not feel good, nor pay for, that high of a ratio at level 3. Team size itself is not an issue. I've seen massive level 3 teams but they have 4 coaches working with them. You just don't want kids standing in lines, or not getting hands on time when they are learning fundamentals.

What do YOU want out of this?

Gymnastics is extremely expensive for one child, let alone two. With a talented 7 year old, they may push TOPs. Know what you are getting into and if you think you'll have the resources mentally to have to say "no" later on. There are gyms that have very involved booster clubs that offset costs substantially. There are usually gyms that are "low performing" but less money and stress in every major city, they may not have bragging rights as far as college recruits, team champions, etc., but are more nurturing and flexible. So that is an option if you are already hesitant about where this is heading. When my kid was crying and not happy to go to gym, we moved. She is still in the gym 4 years later and never has said she doesn't want to go to practice since. This is the goal, whether you are parenting an Olympic hopeful or an average xcel kid who just wants to be a gym rat. Learning to overcome fears, build self esteem, etc. Gymnastics builds character, this is what I am paying (dearly) for, at the end of the day/month/season.

I would go to all the gyms w/in the drive time you can commit to and watch the practices. You can learn a great deal as a fly on the wall in a parent viewing room!! Are coaches yelling, are kids crying? I seriously thought yelling was necessary, until my kid learned a full seasons worth of level 4 skills in one 4.5 hr practice with a coach who could actually coach. She didn't need to yell b/c she had the technical knowledge and experience to coach to my kid as an individual. It was an amazing thing to see and I cry every time I think of how big my daughters smile was when she learned skills that she thought she would never get. Because a coach took the time to care and figure her out. I feel awful now for all the yelling she endured, and how much she must really love gymnastics to persevere through that. You can always find the right gym. Don't be afraid to look around!! Biggest lesson I have learned regarding that, is you can't pick a gym based on anything in the future. So don't pick a gym b/c they have great level 4s, or Optionals, or a National Team Member (that is a good sign if that's a direction you are willing to support, and that they have some really good coaches involved in USAG nationally, it does not however guarantee their xcel coaches have any idea what they are doing). It's what is the best fit now. And it won't be perfect. No gym is perfect.
 
I will caveat this with that I only have the best wishes for you and your girls. With that said we have been at this awhile and have seen many come and go for many reasons. So, given that, I would caution you about JO if you are a single parent on a limited income with a restrictive schedule. Although it would be wonderful if this sport were accessible at the highest levels to everyone and all kids were treated equal,but that simply isn't the case. It is very expensive, VERY! The time and wallet commitment are not to be underestimated. Our entire life revolves around gymnastics. It eats up every extra second and every extra dollar.

I am also a strong believer that if you let your kid go down the path and get the bug (a gymnast is a special and unique being) then it is cruel to at a later date decide that you as a parent can't afford or handle the commitment and take it away. Think long and hard about whether this is something you can commit to or not. Your place in this situation and commitment to it matters and will make a difference to both your daughters down the road.

It seems that your girls may have different levels of commitment and natural talent. Unfortunately sometimes all the things don't align the way we want them to. I think it would be pretty normal for a coach to see a kid doing a press handstand and suggest they may be cut out for team. Many team kids never get a good press handstand. Many of my daughter's level 9 teammates have never had a press handstand and never will. If a kid outside of team can do a press handstand, that is a big deal.

But, I have seen many naturally talented kids come through who can't handle the discipline and the conditioning. Conditioning is hard and a huge part of gymnastics. Holding a handstand for a long time and tough conditioning is an every day part of JO gymnastics. If a kid doesn't like to condition or can't handle the pain (gymnastics hurts, it just does), then it can be difficult for them to progress very far on a JO team track.

Then you will see a super dedicated kid who just doesn't have the talent. They work so hard and commit so deeply only to be disappointed again and again.

But with all that said, there is also the kid in a program who supports all types of gymnasts who works hard and loves what they are doing and has a coaching staff that supports her where she is and she can plug away and keep moving forward and be very happy. It is all about finding the right program.

Sorry, I don't mean to ramble on (just ask, it is kinda what I do. LOL!) but it really comes down to knowing your kids and finding something that works for them. Honestly in your situation as a single parent on a fixed income with a schedule that doesn't support early release and one kid who has some talent, but maybe not the toughness necessary and one with a love and commitment but maybe not the natural talent, I would be looking for a high quality XCEL program that can support them both.

There is a gymnastics track for everyone, but not every track is for every gymnast. It is the unfair and unfortunate truth and something that is difficult for many parents to see.

One more thing I just thought about and seeing that you are in a major metropolitan area would be to find a YMCA program that might take them both. These programs a generally lower hours and less expensive, but can be very good quality programs.

Good luck to you and your girls!
Wow, what a post! Beautifully written.
 
Wow. Super helpful. I did want to clarify the cost of the old gym versus new. Right now I am spending $800 a month -- and driving Lyft to help pay for it -- and the new gym would be the park district which is like maybe $400 a year per kid.
 
Also other than the harsh criticism the old gym does have its good points. I feel they are focused on trying to push the girls to be their best and a lot of the coaches do care. So they are not ALL bad. But I know there is NO way I can afford that gym in the long term.
 
I just want to share my experience last year with the criticism issue. My daughter was a competitive level 2 last year. She had the same coach the previous year and we hadn't had any problems (although I know other girls had had issues with her), but once they started competing, the coach became extremely critical of all the girls. She yelled at them, told them they were horrible, that they were acting like babies... all sorts of things. Every week, at least one of the girls would either cry during practice or be in tears by the time she left. In general, the gym was very reputable, many of the other coaches did care, and honestly I think her coach was trying to get the girls to do their best, but she did it in a very negative way. Halfway through the season my daughter was BEGGING me to quit (but we'd already paid so much money to compete I told her she had to finish the season). She hated going to practice, she didn't want to compete, she was miserable. (It also didn't help that other coaches had wanted to place her in level 3 before the start of season but this coach insisted she stay in 2 even though she had all the skills needed to compete in level 3). After she competed in the state meet, we started trying different gyms and found one she LOVES and it renewed her love for the sport. They are always positive and encouraging and get the best from each girl.
Basically my point is that some girls aren't bothered by criticism, but it's not the norm and it can really make some girls hate the sport (in fact, every girl who was on her team last year either quit gymnastics completely or found a new gym).

Also, I would DEFINITELY go with the cheaper option, especially if you have two kids in the sport.
 

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