WAG Yurchenko vs. Tsuk - which one is harder?

[Deleted member D3987]

Tsuks can be finessed as long as there's enough speed in the run and everything else happens with..... uhmmm, finesse? The same thing is true of the Yuri because the run is what determines any vault's success or failure. So no run equals a lousy salto no matter how it gets entered.

One advantage of the Yuri is it gets the bulk of the mechanical problems solved prior to contact with the table. That makes the Yuri a good choice so for a child who's vestibular gifts allow predictable backward/upward flight at 22 (ish) feet per second into a consistently correct blocking position. All that and a well polished round off done at the end of a full out (sorta) run.

With a little luck, a kid with a good L7 handspring and no other vault specific training will be able to reasonable compete a Tsuk the following season. The Yurchencko may look ready for next season, but that's about as far as I'd let it go, so if they want to move from L7 to L8 and take a Yuchencko with them they need to start progressions when they move up to L7.

what?

 

[iwannacoach]

what?

Just saying there's a hard way and an easier way.

 

[iwannacoach]

Just saying there's a hard way and an easier way.

The reference to 22 feet per second is to the speed a good vaulter takes into the board to show that the flight from the board to the table happens in an instant. Along with that comes the need to spend serious training time on the vault that substantially exceeds the time frame for a tsuk.

I haven't clocked kids with a radar gun and don't know exactly how fast they're going at the end of their run. So don't place any value on the 22fps. It was an off the top off my head figure to emphasize there's a lot going on in a very short span of time.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

ah, okay. i have used the radar gun. on the high end of vaulting, average approaches 11 mph. hard to quantify FPS unless you know their weight. i get your point.

 

[MeetDirector]

Actually, the conversion from mph to fps is a simple dimensional analysis problem. 11mph converts to 16.13 fps. No athlete weight involved; weight only comes in when you are getting into figuring out the forces involved.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

impressive ^^^ and if everything goes right mechanically, those numbers increase as they leave the board, and again when they leave the table.

 

[shelovestoflip]

Agree that it depends on the gymnast. Mine took to tsuks last year like bees to honey, but she's all power. Our 9s and 10s do a mix of vaults including tsuks, yuris, and front fronts). All our optional gymnasts are also working yurchenkos during the off season (a number never could get the timing on the tsuks although that is the typical vault for our L8 girls). DD is actually doing pretty well on the yurchenko training as well, but I doubt they'll switch her at this point since she already has her LO tsuk.

This is a little off topic, but does anyone know for NCAA purposes if full twisting yurchenkos and FT tsuks have the same start value? Just curious.

My daughter did a tsuk at Level 8 and a Yurchenko at Level 9. She is now practicing something different....or maybe some added twist to a Yurchenko??! I know many of the girls couldn't do a tsuk well but have had an easier time with the Yurchenko.
So, I guess my answer to you is I really have no clue! But interested in reading this thread!

 

[MeetDirector]

Board yes; table not so much. A well-executed punch off of the springboad is going to maximize the use of the forces from compressing those springs and therefore add to the athlete's velocity upward and forward (depending on the angle they hit the board). Off of the table, there is not much spring repulsion, just straight rebound and therefore no added forces or velocity. You coaches always say hit the board hard and straight - got to make the springs work for you.

Gymnastics is all about physics and the stuff going on when a gymnast "does thier thing" is amazing.

 

[profmom]

One of DD's upper level teammates used her Yurchenko vault for a physics project in high school -- showed a video of herself vaulting in slo mo and broke down the forces and momentum at each phase. Her parents were very proud.

 

[cbifoja]

^^^ The science teacher in me LOVES this!

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

^^^ The science teacher in me LOVES this!

The engineer in me LOVES it too

 

[krc]

Shannon Miller's dad was a physics prof. in OK. He would use videos of Shannon to teach his college students. I was able to watch one of his lectures when he used a video of Shannon 'splatting' a tkatchev to explain the force of deceleration in relation to the compression aspects of a 4" mat Higher math than I was capable of, but still an interesting afternoon.

 

[scanlri]

Absolutely loving this thread. Finally, gymnastics an engineer can understand!

 

[Iwannabemargo]

the scientist in me loves it too.

 

[Aero]

ah, okay. i have used the radar gun. on the high end of vaulting, average approaches 11 mph. hard to quantify FPS unless you know their weight. i get your point.

Leave it to dunno to literally use a radar gun on his vaulters!

 

[Granny Smith]

What I was always told about the 2 vaults. Tsuk is a power vault and Yurchenko is a finesse vault. My dd does a Yurchenko and always has. it took almost a year to learn the vault and then basically a season of competing it to master the vault. My personal opinion is that the Tsuk is easier to learn & that is why it may be seen more at the lower level (8), but most of those girls are also training the Yurchenko and switch over after they have mastered the vault. What my dd's old coach always said is that while many can do a Tsuk (tuck, pike, layout), they do not have the power to twist the vault, which is why many switch to Yurchenko. Since the Yurchenko is a finesse/technique vault, the ability to twist comes to more girls.

 

[wallinbl]

Leave it to dunno to literally use a radar gun on his vaulters!

Sounds like what I'd want a coach to do - investigate, learn, figure out everything there is to know about it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

What I was always told about the 2 vaults. Tsuk is a power vault and Yurchenko is a finesse vault. My dd does a Yurchenko and always has. it took almost a year to learn the vault and then basically a season of competing it to master the vault. My personal opinion is that the Tsuk is easier to learn & that is why it may be seen more at the lower level (8), but most of those girls are also training the Yurchenko and switch over after they have mastered the vault. What my dd's old coach always said is that while many can do a Tsuk (tuck, pike, layout), they do not have the power to twist the vault, which is why many switch to Yurchenko. Since the Yurchenko is a finesse/technique vault, the ability to twist comes to more girls.

the 2 vaults are vastly misunderstood. yes, it is easier to vault a Yurchenko because it come from a round flip flop. kids do THOUSANDS of these in training.

there is no way to simulate front handspring or 1/2 on/round off on to the table. therefore, the athletes are at a numbers deficit from the start.

but when you take both vaults fully developed for competition, pound for pound, the conventional vaults pale in comparison to the amount of energy produced and generated by the Yurchenko vault. it's apples and oranges.

keep in mind that 'technique' for both vaults are crucial for successful vaulting. there is nothing worse than either vault being performed with bad technique. finesse is really not a word in gymnastics.

 

[gymnast2175]

Right now I'm daughter is competing a Tsuk. She has worked on yerchenkos but they do not come as naturally as her Tsuk does. It really depends on the gymnast. My daughter has very tight shoulders which is a factor in her yerchenko. Does your dd have a good front handspring vault? If so, Tsuk would come more naturally

 

[cbifoja]

From the bleachers, the tsuk looks harder.

But the mommy in me hates her round off entry toward that big piece of hard equipment that doesn't tend to move out of the way if she screws something up.