Back Walkovers and Back Handspring Progressions

[coachmolly]

Just curious, how important do you think back walkovers are in the process of progressing to back handsprings? Do you find back walkovers to be more important for girls than boys? Or more important for artistic gymnasts versus T&Ters?
I ask because where I currently coach, bridge kickovers and back walkovers are almost irrelevant skills. They are sometimes worked in the girls artistic rec. classes, but those girls also work on back handsprings without being able to perform a kickover or back walkover. In the tumbling classes, athletes go from cartwheels and round-offs, immediately to back handsprings. It works out well enough, with lots of spotted attempts the kids eventually learn back handsprings, but I can't help but wonder if an in between step might help just to get them accustomed to the general backwards movement, improve body control and awareness, maybe develop a better understanding of the tight arch concept, etc. It's not that back walkovers are not allowed to be taught, it's just that they are not the norm. I implement them into the lessons when I am teaching the rec. girls on floor, but it's really not a consistent part of their lessons.
When left to my own devices, I teach kickovers and back walkovers first, but I'm just curious about other philosophies on this series of progressions, what you have found to work, all that stuff. Thanks for any input!

 

[Jennemmy]

You need a bwo for level 5 floor and 6 beam so knowing them seems required.

 

[coachmolly]

Sorry, should have clarified. This is mostly concerning tramp and tumbling kids. The girls team is VERY small and they do eventually learn back walkovers, usually just not until after learning back handsprings. There is actually a current level 5 who is struggling with the back walkover on floor.

 

[gymgurl]

I think it can be a good thing to help with getting used to go backwards but other than that i see little need to teach T&Ters to backwalkover as it requires more flexibility than a bhs so i guess it would be more time efficient to go straight to the BHS. So unless you want to let them get used to going backwards i don't think it can be of huge importance. That is for T&T artistic is completely different

 

[coachmolly]

Thanks for the input. I'm from a strictly artistic background, so I'm kind of learning the ropes of T&T as I go. My initial reaction to the whole progression set up at this gym was similar to your response, but after banging my head against a wall for a few months with some of these kids, I've started to wonder if maybe adding in another step might make things a little easier.

 

[NGL780309]

At DD's old gym they had to have a BWO before they could start working on BHS. We moved gyms recently and she was the only one who could do a BWO in her group. I was kind of surprised, but it wasn't a skill they worked on at the new gym.

 

[CoachGoofy]

I mostly coach T&T nowadays, & in my program we teach backbends and bridge kickovers. They only have to be able to kick over off a mat & do a backbend up hill to get serious about a bhs, but if they can't hold themselves upside down and find a handstand position going slowly, they won't be able to do it moving quickly. It's good for them to get used to putting their weight on their arms from a standing & moving backwards position, as well.

I know other programs don't always & their kids do fine, but it's a step that I find very helpful.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I don't think the back walkover progression is terribly important to the back handspring. Of course with WAG girls we teach the back walkover first as it is a requirement. We don't teach back walkovers to the boys as they don't usually have the flexibility and its not an important skill for them. In general tumblers I have a lot of kids who can do great back handsprings and not back walkovers at all. It just depends on the flexibility.

Beautifully flexible kids find the walkover easier, strong powerful kids often find the back handspring easier. And in many ways I find the back handspring easier to teach to a kid who can't do a back walkover. Kids who do back walkovers often arch into it and don't understand the concept of sit and push back.

 

[gymgurl]

Beautifully flexible kids find the walkover easier, strong powerful kids often find the back handspring easier. And in many ways I find the back handspring easier to teach to a kid who can't do a back walkover. Kids who do back walkovers often arch into it and don't understand the concept of sit and push back.

That is so true!! I am quite flexible and definitely find the walkover easier and with bhs i definately struggle with the sit and push back! I think you yet again hit the nail on the head

 

[gymdog]

This is common in cheerleading too.

In girls artistic, I always teach the kickover and back walkover first. Objectively I think a bridge up kickover is easier than a BHS in general, so just in the concept of progressive levels of difficulty that is where I place it. BWO could be arguable, to do a good one, I guess, for SOME kids. I find it is helpful, and they learn the BHS quicker. I do spot them on BHS drills (jump back to open handstand) before they have BWO on their own in some cases.

However on the other hand I suppose you could say they could just take a longer time learning the BHS and then they'd probably learn a BWO pretty quickly. That would probably be true But that isn't my preference.


Realistically most of the guys I know (well in gymnastics) can do a bridge up to kickover. It might not be the prettiest thing, some are more like a tuckover or jumpover (we actually tested this one day...). But I mean there is a baseline ability to be able to press your shoulders over your hands momentarily and use your core strength to hurl yourself over to the other side. I mean I actually teach low level boys artistic and they practice bridges and kickovers too...walkovers not so much I guess. Sometimes back bends and front limbers though.

 

[coachmolly]

Thanks for all of the feedback, it's provided me with some food for thought. I think a big part of the problem is that the jump from level 3 to 4 (where bhs are starting to be taught) is just so big that many of the kids are still just not ready in terms of strength, body awareness, and having a good grasp on body positions. Some of the kids have picked up bhs, but others are still struggling and probably will be for a while longer. I was just thinking that for those struggling, adding in bridge kickovers to the floor rotation might help them feel some success in the meantime at the least, and maybe help them develop some skills helpful to learning the bhs.

 

[gymdog]

Bridge kickover is required to move from L2 to L3 where I am. It is the hardest L2 skill (after cast back hip circle which is hardest because they really need to have it down). Fairly we move kids who are close on the kickover but not 100%...they'll continue working on it in L3 along with back walkovers and back handspring drills.

 

[MissBear]

Always I would be going backwards slowly before jumping back! The back into bridge part definately teaches shoulder 'push' to keep them open, and I also like to see how much fear there is of going backwards. The kickover part not so important because of the shoulder flexibility. Perhaps a kick or two footed jump from a mat or wedge in bridge would be just as useful and easier to achieve for your less flexible gymnasts.

 

[gymdog]

Yes, start the kickovers off an elevated surface, and also practice wall walks - stand back to the wall about a foot or two away, arch back to touch the wall and walk the hands down as far as you can, then back up (with the goal being to get all the way to a bridge on the floor, and then walk back up).