Question about bar settings for smaller gymnasts (L8-L10)

[marie83]

We always set the bars closer together for our smaller gymnasts until they become confident/competent then gradually move them out. By the time they are British Level 4 we like them to be at FIG settings.
Here the gymnasts are not allowed to compete with the bars further out that the FIG settings even if the bars have the capability to go further out!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Dunno is it hard to transition to FIG setting if their bars aren't currently set up that way? Is it hard for the girls who trained like a JO athlete the whole time then at some point decide to pursue elite to change things to fit the setting requirement?

yes, absolutely difficult.

 

[bookworm]

Thanks for you reply, bookworm. I do enjoy reading your responses and know that you have a lot of knowledge and experience to share, and I appreciate that. I hear what you are saying...let the coaches do the coaching...and I get that.

I must say, however, that if not for asking questions like this on here, I would still have my kids training in a facility where the coaches claimed that they knew exactly what they were doing (and even were prepared to train my oldest daughter elite), when in fact they had VERY little knowledge at all of the upper levels of this sport. I did the "trust the coaches-that's what you pay them for" thing for 8 years and got burned pretty badly, as did my girls. Never again will I blindly trust that a coach knows every thing about every aspect of every level....When I see something at a meet that jumps out at me, I will question it, unapologetically, especially when it can potentially be a safety issue for one of my girls--as dunno and BlairBob both hinted at.

Lucky for you that your daughter trained all along on FIG and you didn't have to watch her at 4'7" try to catch her bail to handstand with the bars all the way out....it is a little nerve-wracking to say the least. Watching girls at the last few meets that were her size swinging with the bars moved in and catching their high-low transitions and sole circle catch high with ease made me wonder...that is the reason for my original post. I hope you get where I am coming from.

Justanothergymmom...sorry I didn't mean to offend you when I said let the coaches coach...and by no stretch of the imagination do I say to let them do so blindly...I have actually been in your shoes and trusted coaches completely and been burned so I educated myself, talked to tons of people (coaches, judges, gym owners, even other parents) and vowed it would never happen again. I'm sure the coaches/owners on this site are saying to themselves "Oh God, don't encourage that" but I say it it from the point of view that I hope you are with coaches that are competent and that you trust (if not, well that's another thread...) but do learn all you can about the sport and what goes on.

As far as my daughter always being on FIG settings (and she is really short too) , she did elite when she was 12-13 yo so I think that she just stayed with the same settings after she decided to return to Level 10. She does say that with the bars all the way out, she is "scared to death" to do an overshoot (bail) and she's been doing them for 8 years! Her response to me on "why are you afraid if it's only a few more inches" was "imagine hurling yourself off the high bar to the low bar like you've done forever...but it's moved 3 inches?"...so I go back to reading my book

 

[bookworm]

yes, absolutely difficult.

Dunno is it hard to transition to FIG setting if their bars aren't currently set up that way? Is it hard for the girls who trained like a JO athlete the whole time then at some point decide to pursue elite to change things to fit the setting requirement?

I believe this was the issue with Casey Jo Magee (former NCAA gymnast who tried to do elite after graduating from Arkansas and had a great career there) ...she just couldn't do a bar routine on the FIG settings..so yes, the transition is difficult..and she ended up only doing the other 3 events (no bars).

 

[justanothergymmom]

Justanothergymmom...sorry I didn't mean to offend you when I said let the coaches coach...and by no stretch of the imagination do I say to let them do so blindly...I have actually been in your shoes and trusted coaches completely and been burned so I educated myself, talked to tons of people (coaches, judges, gym owners, even other parents) and vowed it would never happen again. I'm sure the coaches/owners on this site are saying to themselves "Oh God, don't encourage that" but I say it it from the point of view that I hope you are with coaches that are competent and that you trust (if not, well that's another thread...) but do learn all you can about the sport and what goes on.

As far as my daughter always being on FIG settings (and she is really short too) , she did elite when she was 12-13 yo so I think that she just stayed with the same settings after she decided to return to Level 10. She does say that with the bars all the way out, she is "scared to death" to do an overshoot (bail) and she's been doing them for 8 years! Her response to me on "why are you afraid if it's only a few more inches" was "imagine hurling yourself off the high bar to the low bar like you've done forever...but it's moved 3 inches?"...so I go back to reading my book

Not offended at all, bookworm, I just wanted you to understand more where I was coming from, and that I am not some crazy gym mom trying to undermine coaches and micro-manage my girls' training I sincerely meant what I said--I think you are a great source of information AND voice of reason on cb I really do appreciate your input, especially since you have been in my shoes. I do trust our coaches and they are very competent...the bars just concern me a bit...which is why I posted this question to see if my concern is way off base. Thanks again for your input!

 

[wandrewsjr]

She didn't request it that I know of but our coach has had gymnasts go off to college programs and knew that they ended up changing their bar settings when they got there so I think she wanted my daughter to get used to it during this year....according to my daughter, college teams don't change their bar setting because it cuts into warm up time...and when I asked her about it ("I see people running around the bars etc etc") , she said they are moving mats or springboards but the settings remain the same...maybe UCLA swings on FIG because they have so many former elites so that's "their" setting.

Nope, they changed settings. I think Mattie,Sam,Oliva and Vanessa were on FIG(or at least something close) and Monique and Aisha(think it was them, were all the way out). Though I am sure every college program is different.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

I must say, however, that if not for asking questions like this on here, I would still have my kids training in a facility where the coaches claimed that they knew exactly what they were doing (and even were prepared to train my oldest daughter elite), when in fact they had VERY little knowledge at all of the upper levels of this sport. I did the "trust the coaches-that's what you pay them for" thing for 8 years and got burned pretty badly, as did my girls. Never again will I blindly trust that a coach knows every thing about every aspect of every level....When I see something at a meet that jumps out at me, I will question it, unapologetically, especially when it can potentially be a safety issue for one of my girls--as dunno and BlairBob both hinted at.

Okay and THIS is why I might ask 500 STUPID questions HERE FIRST so I don't end up questioning things of the coaches that I really shouldn't. And thi might be slightly not on the topic of bar spacing, but I just wanted to add it in. We think we trust our coaches but then something like whatever it was that happened to justanothergymmom's child happens, and all bets are off.

So I just wanted to add that this is where a lot of the parents' questions come from. I know it's why I ask this stuff here, lol. Last thing I want is to pee off the coaches when I am way off base on something, but the second last thing I want is to blindly trust.

This is why I love the Chalk Bucket.

/steps off soapbox

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I believe this was the issue with Casey Jo Magee (former NCAA gymnast who tried to do elite after graduating from Arkansas and had a great career there) ...she just couldn't do a bar routine on the FIG settings..so yes, the transition is difficult..and she ended up only doing the other 3 events (no bars).

Casey is now assistant coaching at western michigan. she's is still training and back on the bars now and has been slowly creeping them in. it's a slow process.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Nope, they changed settings. I think Mattie,Sam,Oliva and Vanessa were on FIG(or at least something close) and Monique and Aisha(think it was them, were all the way out). Though I am sure every college program is different.

you got this right on. Monique and Aisha do work them all the way out but the low bar spreader is moved down at 3.

 

[wandrewsjr]

This brings up an interesting question in my mind, is there some height at which it becomes too difficult to swing at FIG, and a wider setting doesn't lead to poorer techinque, but is actually neccesary? Looking at the UCLA bar workers, the ones who swing at FIG are all 5'2'' and under, while the ones that swing all the way out are 5'3" and taller. The tallest great elite bar workers I can think of, Tweddle and Liukin, are both 5'3". Are taller gymnasts (say 5'5" and up) still able to acheive the best technique at FIG?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

that's a great question. i've tried not to get to far away from FIG. i had a gymnast a few years back. she was 5'8". 103 inches long with her arms overhead. she did a blind>jaeger>immediate bail to hand. but her dismount was a triple full (obviously, right?) i had her bars set at 2 lines under 5. high bar and low bar were the same. and the low bar spreader all the way up. this is the widest i've ever set them.

the predicament was that sometimes she hit her feet on the low bar on her dismount. but if i moved the bars out it screwed up the bail to hand from the jaeger. so i taught her a late tap like you would for a double lay. the triple was a bit wonky at first but eventually settled in.

if parents only understood and knew what we as coaches must go thru sometimes...and we don't get paid enough for those times which is why i wish barney666 would understand that it ain't about the money...it's so that i/we can be left alone to sort out these kinds of mechanical problems which could take days...and we might need additional food and water...

 

[wandrewsjr]

This is exactly the setting that most of the upper optionals in our gym us (low bar spreader all the way up, high bar spreader at 2 below 5, both bar heights the same). Only the tallest girl on the team is at all the way out. Decision was made last year to transition my daughter(I am not her coach) to this setting - I guess this is what you call "big FIG" from FIG last year. She is only 5'2" now but on track to be about 5'6". Bail took a little while to adjust, but settled in fine.

 

[BlairBob]

At the gym I was at last year, we basically started transitioning the bulk of our girls to FIG only. This was due to one of the new hire coaches from another gym who had trained a few girls that went on to Div1 and were training elite (but not ELITE as in his opinion, you are only elite if you are on the national team, period end of story). For some of our older girls that weren't ever going to make it to L7 and were 5' + with one who was 5'6 (with parents over 6 or 6 1/2 feet) we didn't really care as much. With 2 UB, we would set one at FIG and another at BigFig. With our itty bitty 5's, we would set one at FIG, and another way closer for those girls who were still scared of squat on jump to HB or would frog jump to HB if they were set to high/wide.

 

[Kiwi]

This thread is quite fascinating! I know nothing about bar settings, so a lot of this is over my head. But I don't think I've ever seen the bar settings being changed at our gym. We don't have any elites, but we do have some higher level STEPS and IDP girls. I would suspect that our bars are always set at FIG and left that way...I must ask a coach next time I'm at the gym!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

the USA is the only country to move the bars from FIG because of Junior Olympic programs and college programs. FIG is FIG no matter what country and the bars can not be moved if it is an elite/olympic competition.

i forgot to point this out...there are several countries that come to the USA consistently and frequently to compete in competitions here. competitions outside the elite program have JO sanctions. this means that visiting countries may set their bars wherever they'd like, and sometimes they do and they are not at FIG.

and i've often wondered why the other countries don't do as we do and start up JO like programs. it just seems to me that keeping the bars at FIG won't increase the amount of elites that each country has. but it might increase the numbers overall. sometimes those bars just have to be moved a bit.

 

[gymgal]

My dd is not training elite path so it does really matter but I am now wondering why gyms would routinely set bars wider than fig for shorter girls. Wouldn't skills be cleaner if bars were closer? Forcing them to do the skills correct? I sort of relate to watching little ones do their kips on taller settings and never really learn to glide properly because they don't have to worry about their feet hitting the mat. Dd is about 4'6" and training level 7 skills. She says she likes wider better because she doesn't have to worry about her feet hitting the low bar when she is on high bar. But should that even be a issue if she is doing the skills correctly? Maybe its just a fear for her and not a possible reality. Just thinking aloud....

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