WAG Skipping levels 4 AND 5?

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Dahlia

Proud Parent
Sep 27, 2013
337
Most of her team scored 38+ at the State Meet. She had her lowest (according to MMS) score of the season at just under 34 ... but she had scored as high as 36.1 earlier in the season. State meet was Nov 10 and it was posted that she is repeating L2 next year on Nov. 16 - WTH??? Have they NOT heard of training for the next level and see where she is at at the beginning of summer?!?!?

Looking up her gym on mymeetscores, it looks like her gym moves up after the November meet and the girls compete the new level beginning in January.
 

gymyogimom

Proud Parent
Jun 12, 2015
159
midwest
Most of her team scored 38+ at the State Meet. She had her lowest (according to MMS) score of the season at just under 34 ... but she had scored as high as 36.1 earlier in the season. State meet was Nov 10 and it was posted that she is repeating L2 next year on Nov. 16 - WTH??? Have they NOT heard of training for the next level and see where she is at at the beginning of summer?!?!?
Looking, they had their first meet in September, so 10 months to clean up and mature for level 3. I think the gymstagram people all know the skills she is working on... It isn't like she is missing skills, she was doing 10+ hours a week and repeating level 2! It isn't even a required level. I don't know, I guess I feel for her.
 

raenndrops

Coach
Oct 24, 2009
6,787
The 'Wood, Ohio
Looking up her gym on mymeetscores, it looks like her gym moves up after the November meet and the girls compete the new level beginning in January.
But there is no spring state meet, so why couldn't she compete L3 for the (potentially) 8 meets available? She HAD been doing TOPS. She could easily be ready for L3 in January. She might just only score in the 33s - [gasp]!

Looking, they had their first meet in September, so 10 months to clean up and mature for level 3. I think the gymstagram people all know the skills she is working on... It isn't like she is missing skills, she was doing 10+ hours a week and repeating level 2! It isn't even a required level. I don't know, I guess I feel for her.
Well, since they do have the potential for 8 Invitationals after States, although she COULD be ready for L3 in January, they will probably move her up to 3 for the fall. Apparently, her mom wasn't clear about the repeating "next season" ... In my mind, a season would end with a finale meet (like a State Meet or a District Meet or Regionals, or, in the case of the YMCA or L9/L0, Nationals). Since they don't have a spring State meet, it is not a "season" in my mind ... it is just extra bonus meets. Maybe they want to keep her in L2 so they can have her compete L3 next Fall ... and so she won't be wanting / expecting to move up to L4 for the Fall??? Still seems a little bogus though.
 

gymyogimom

Proud Parent
Jun 12, 2015
159
midwest
Ok, if it's just a few meets post states, that's different than waiting 9 months to still work level 2 skills. Much different. She better be level 3 in the fall! :)
 
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LJL07

Proud Parent
Jan 27, 2014
1,856
Yeah I know 5 is young, and is 2 years before tops testing, but it was heartbreaking to read! She wanted to quit. She is 5 and has a lot of higher skills and level 2 isn't competed for scores in many states! I guess I "got the feelz*" on it, and then there are girls barely reaching 33 and headed to the next level. I'm not that familiar with AZ gyms, but if a girl is training tops and competing and getting plenty of AA podiums, holding back just doesn't seem like a good ROI for the little bitty gymnast.
Heartbreaking? She is 6. Maybe if her family had not started promoting her as the next Olympian at age 3, their expectations would be a little more realistic. I agree though that holding back for 38s at those low levels is very silly. But I also think the level of fame this kid has experienced is kind of weird. She is adorable and talented for sure, but I don't see her as having exceptional rare abilities at all.
 

LJL07

Proud Parent
Jan 27, 2014
1,856
As far as skipping levels 4&5, I am no expert, but I would say it is a better thing to do if the child is strong on bars. I just can't see doing it if the bars aren't strong. I think the level 5 bar skills are important. Speaking of famous instagram children, there is also the famous kid who skipped levels 4&5 to do level 6 at age 7. She has beautiful flexibility on the beam, but her bars are very weak considering she is a TOPS A super star and has 190,000 followers and is being featured all over the place as a future Olympic hopeful. What was the big rush?
 

Dahlia

Proud Parent
Sep 27, 2013
337
Heartbreaking? She is 6. Maybe if her family had not started promoting her as the next Olympian at age 3, their expectations would be a little more realistic. I agree though that holding back for 38s at those low levels is very silly. But I also think the level of fame this kid has experienced is kind of weird. She is adorable and talented for sure, but I don't see her as having exceptional rare abilities at all.

Between 2 and 3, totally. But sometimes kids who score 36-38 at L3 aren't ready for L4 if they don't have their kip, etc. My daughter scored in the high 36s last season, but still doesn't have the skills for L4 and is repeating 3 because of that. There is a bigger skill difference between 3&4 than 2&3, imo.
 

Dahlia

Proud Parent
Sep 27, 2013
337
Speaking of famous instagram children, there is also the famous kid who skipped levels 4&5 to do level 6 at age 7. She has beautiful flexibility on the beam, but her bars are very weak considering she is a TOPS A super star and has 190,000 followers and is being featured all over the place as a future Olympic hopeful. What was the big rush?

In know it may not always be the case, but I always assume pushy parents and a child who will probably burn out (but may or may not be allowed to quit). I don't think anything good comes of making a young child's life so "public".
 
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LJL07

Proud Parent
Jan 27, 2014
1,856
Between 2 and 3, totally. But sometimes kids who score 36-38 at L3 aren't ready for L4 if they don't have their kip, etc. My daughter scored in the high 36s last season, but still doesn't have the skills for L4 and is repeating 3 because of that. There is a bigger skill difference between 3&4 than 2&3, imo.
Yes! Absolutely. I really meant hanging out on levels 1-3 and repeating those levels. In the past, I've seen it done here for 38s, and I think that is very silly and a waste of time. There is a huge skill difference between 3&4.
 

LJL07

Proud Parent
Jan 27, 2014
1,856
In know it may not always be the case, but I always assume pushy parents and a child who will probably burn out (but may or may not be allowed to quit). I don't think anything good comes of making a young child's life so "public".
Right. It's just not something I can understand at all. As an aside, I saw someone upthread commented that TOPs is kind of up in the air going forward. That's interesting. I was actually surprised the child I was mentioning made the A team because given the pretty impressive talent pool of 8 year olds out there, her bars are pretty far behind what is out there. But I do think for 7 year olds to make Diamond that it is purely based off of PAs and then for the 8 year old testing, the PA's are weighted more evenly with skills than 9/10 year old. So I guess I can see how an 8 year old could get a really high score yet still have pretty weak bars (relatively speaking!). And being able to do 35 presses, hundreds of leg lifts, and handstand holds ALSO does not seem like a good reason to skip over levels 4&5.
 

amiandjim

Proud Parent
Apr 18, 2015
1,653
45
Speaking of repeating to score a 38, there is a huge discussion on one of the FB pages about a level 4 who scored a 38 (lowest of the season was 36+) and was 2nd AA at state being told she must repeat 4. What in the world is wrong with these gyms??? And no, she isn’t super young, doesn’t have fear issues, doesn’t lack confidence, and has 10 months in which to get level 5 skills!
 

gymyogimom

Proud Parent
Jun 12, 2015
159
midwest
Speaking of repeating to score a 38, there is a huge discussion on one of the FB pages about a level 4 who scored a 38 (lowest of the season was 36+) and was 2nd AA at state being told she must repeat 4. What in the world is wrong with these gyms??? And no, she isn’t super young, doesn’t have fear issues, doesn’t lack confidence, and has 10 months in which to get level 5 skills!
What would be the reason given? 3 to 4 is a big jump, and a kid getting 38+ should have enough skill/ability/strength to get the skills for level 5 in 10ish months.
 

raenndrops

Coach
Oct 24, 2009
6,787
The 'Wood, Ohio
What would be the reason given? 3 to 4 is a big jump, and a kid getting 38+ should have enough skill/ability/strength to get the skills for level 5 in 10ish months.
We have 2 Level 4s that should have been able to go up to L5 this season, but 1 has a fear of the flyaway and the back tuck and the bwo on beam (needs a spot on all 3, and is currently not even connecting her 2 bhs on floor half the time and is balking on vault 45% of the time) and the other one can't get the hang of a clear hip and is afraid of the back tuck. If they get over these issues (and the first one gets the scores), they still have time to move up mid-season ... but it isnt looking very likely right now.
 

sce

Proud Parent
Mar 11, 2014
6,149
We have 2 Level 4s that should have been able to go up to L5 this season, but 1 has a fear of the flyaway and the back tuck and the bwo on beam (needs a spot on all 3, and is currently not even connecting her 2 bhs on floor half the time and is balking on vault 45% of the time) and the other one can't get the hang of a clear hip and is afraid of the back tuck. If they get over these issues (and the first one gets the scores), they still have time to move up mid-season ... but it isnt looking very likely right now.
This is very different than the above situation. The girl just finished her level 4 season and the gym has decided that she will repeat level 4. She has not yet had the chance to try to learn the level 5 skills.
 

amiandjim

Proud Parent
Apr 18, 2015
1,653
45
What would be the reason given? 3 to 4 is a big jump, and a kid getting 38+ should have enough skill/ability/strength to get the skills for level 5 in 10ish months.

I do not believe a reason was given except that “most girls repeat level 4.” This gym is also well known for holding girls back in the lower levels.
 

John

Proud Parent
May 5, 2017
1,592
54
Just to add my opinion to the thread. My Daughter's first year of USAG gymnastics was a score out meet of 4 and 5 and then the season of Level 7. As most know she came from USAIGC to USAG at 10. She is doing wonderfully and when she switched her bars were her worst event (best score on gold bars was 7.3). I say these things only to preface that if a child loves gymnastics and wants to pursue her dreams she should be able to find a place where she can safely do so. Sometimes a gymnast may be held back for safety reasons, this is hard to know from the outside looking in. I think if a gymnast is working hard and making corrections for coaches being held back is a red flag and parents should find a new gym. Gymnastics is not about 38's and winning it is about gaining skills, progress, and self-improvement. There can only be one AA winner at each competition and if that was my daughters focus I know her career would already be over.
 

ROMfan

Proud Parent
Oct 3, 2015
28
49
Speaking of repeating to score a 38, there is a huge discussion on one of the FB pages about a level 4 who scored a 38 (lowest of the season was 36+) and was 2nd AA at state being told she must repeat 4. What in the world is wrong with these gyms??? And no, she isn’t super young, doesn’t have fear issues, doesn’t lack confidence, and has 10 months in which to get level 5 skills!


I really think for situations like this (and because of gyms like those mentioned that are infamous for holding back gymnasts who are more than ready to advance), there should be some kind of rule in place....specifics would have to be worked out, but something to the effect of “if you score 37 [38, or whatever cutoff deemed appropriate], you automatically are moved up to the next level due to having demonstrated proficiency”

And you can always allow the rare petition for cases where a child just cannot learn the next level skills....but it would be monitored to ensure you don’t have 15 gymnasts from one gym approved to stay back

That would put an end to nonsense like that...and sandbagging for scores in level 4 competition!!
 

amiandjim

Proud Parent
Apr 18, 2015
1,653
45
I really think for situations like this (and because of gyms like those mentioned that are infamous for holding back gymnasts who are more than ready to advance), there should be some kind of rule in place....specifics would have to be worked out, but something to the effect of “if you score 37 [38, or whatever cutoff deemed appropriate], you automatically are moved up to the next level due to having demonstrated proficiency”

And you can always allow the rare petition for cases where a child just cannot learn the next level skills....but it would be monitored to ensure you don’t have 15 gymnasts from one gym approved to stay back

That would put an end to nonsense like that...and sandbagging for scores in level 4 competition!!

I agree OR start having two different categories: first year and repeater or something like that. I hadn’t heard of the gym people were discussing earlier so I looked them up and oh my heavens! So many girls in compulsories for years and years! Many of them have done more than 40 meets in the lower levels!! I would lose my mind.
 

Freddy's Fred

Member
Nov 19, 2017
224
45
As far as skipping levels 4&5, I am no expert, but I would say it is a better thing to do if the child is strong on bars. I just can't see doing it if the bars aren't strong. I think the level 5 bar skills are important. Speaking of famous instagram children, there is also the famous kid who skipped levels 4&5 to do level 6 at age 7. She has beautiful flexibility on the beam, but her bars are very weak considering she is a TOPS A super star and has 190,000 followers and is being featured all over the place as a future Olympic hopeful. What was the big rush?

My DD went from 4-7 because she got her giant early and she's felt like she's playing catch-up ever since. Repeating 9 this year. Younger one is not skipping any levels.
 
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LJL07

Proud Parent
Jan 27, 2014
1,856
My DD went from 4-7 because she got her giant early and she's felt like she's playing catch-up ever since. Repeating 9 this year. Younger one is not skipping any levels.
Yes! My older daughter went from 4 to 7 as well. She had some injury-related issues and sat out a year. The bars didn't present too much of a problem for her, but she definitely wasn't progressed properly on the beam and is playing catch up on that event. My youngest daughter was supposed to also go from 4 to 7 this season, and to make a long story short, we said no way especially with the new changes, and she is doing level 6. She is only 8, and we are not pursuing elite, so what is the point? I can understand this jump in the situation @John described for his daughter, but why on earth would a gym make this kind of level skip with a young 7 or 8 year old unless every single event was extremely solid??
 
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