WAG thoughts on American athletes competing for other countries in international competitions?

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John

Proud Parent
May 5, 2017
1,592
54
I support an athlete with dual citizenship competing for either country. These people are not doing anything but attempting to live their dreams. I see Toni Ann Williams practice from time to time. Wonderful girl wonderful family.
 

momnipotent

Proud Parent
Judge
Apr 5, 2012
308
When did this change, I know that my son who was born to USA citizen parents but in a different country had to declare which country he wanted to be a citizen of at the age of 18

It might be a requirement of the other country, not the US.
 
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Dahlia

Proud Parent
Sep 27, 2013
345
When did this change, I know that my son who was born to USA citizen parents but in a different country had to declare which country he wanted to be a citizen of at the age of 18
 

ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,534
62
Nationality and citizenship are not the same thing.


And while the US maybe OK, with something doesn’t mean the other associated country is.
 
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rjb123

Proud Parent
Aug 17, 2013
895
I think it is fine as long as they are of that nationality (born there or have parents who are from there) and have citizenship in the country. I would not be ok with someone competing for a country without these things.
 
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Faith

Coach
Proud Parent
Gymnast
Fan
Aug 17, 2011
2,179
And following the logic, what about NCAA athletes from other countries, should they be able to take a US kids spot?

Do you extend that to academic scholarships? To university places in general? What about the American kids that take up places in overseas universities?

University is different. You earn your place.

I have a child who is eligible to compete for another country. And at the moment I would absolutely support her in competing for them if she chose. I am not happy with the way kids are treated here, and if it meant she was treated like a human rather than a means to win medals and make adults look like they are earning their salaries then I have no problem.

Someone said upthread re. Simone. Same for her. When you are treated badly by an ngb, why would you feel any loyalty?
 

ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,534
62
And following the logic, what about NCAA athletes from other countries, should they be able to take a US kids spot?
You all see the question mark right........

It’s a question not a statement.
 

AWOL

Proud Parent
Nov 4, 2014
132
81
It might be a requirement of the other country, not the US.
No it was the requirement of the USA. The other country still considers him a citizen but that was along time ago.
Using Google found this info:
"Dual citizenship had previously been banned in the United States, but in 1967 the US Supreme Court struck down most laws forbidding dual citizenship.
However, the US government remained disdainful of dual citizenship for some time. To this day, candidates for US citizenship through naturalization are forced to (at least hypothetically) renounce their previous citizenship at the United States naturalization ceremony."
 
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momnipotent

Proud Parent
Judge
Apr 5, 2012
308
No it was the requirement of the USA. The other country still considers him a citizen but that was along time ago.
Using Google found this info:
"Dual citizenship had previously been banned in the United States, but in 1967 the US Supreme Court struck down most laws forbidding dual citizenship.
However, the US government remained disdainful of dual citizenship for some time. To this day, candidates for US citizenship through naturalization are forced to (at least hypothetically) renounce their previous citizenship at the United States naturalization ceremony."
That’s only for naturalized citizens though, not people who have dual citizenship through birth. For example, my husband is Korean. If he were to choose to become a US citizen through naturalization, he would have to renounce his Korean citizenship. My children, however, could maintain both US AND Korean citizenship. Since they are boys and Korea still has mandatory military service for men, they would have to renounce their Korean citizenship if they did not want to do military service, but they could continue to maintain dual citizenship if they chose to fulfill that requirement.
 

Jenny

Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 17, 2012
3,441
That’s only for naturalized citizens though, not people who have dual citizenship through birth. For example, my husband is Korean. If he were to choose to become a US citizen through naturalization, he would have to renounce his Korean citizenship. My children, however, could maintain both US AND Korean citizenship. Since they are boys and Korea still has mandatory military service for men, they would have to renounce their Korean citizenship if they did not want to do military service, but they could continue to maintain dual citizenship if they chose to fulfill that requirement.

I agree I think if you are born with dual citizenship that is fantastic. Totally entitled to be part of either. I was referring more to the pathway of buying your way on to a foreign national team. Would make people think about what they are really doing and what it really means to become a part of that new country and represent it. There should be some kind of connection. The new rules do deal with this quite well.
 

Flipfloppy

Gymnast
Apr 28, 2017
55
US citizens with dual citizenship are not necessarily born in a different country. Often, it is because their parents are citizens of another country but have lived in the US most of their lives. So there are no ties to that country for the child.

Many children born in the U.S. to immigrants have strong ties to their parents' country of origin. I have multiple friends born in the U.S. who speak their parents' language as their first language; grew up in the culture of their parents' country of birth; have strong ties to their relatives in the "home" country; consider themselves equally American and [parents' nationality].

The American gymnasts who competed for Belarus did not have ties to Belarus, obviously, and I don't blame them but I do blame the adults who arranged it, but the assumption that a child born in the U.S. to immigrant parents has "no ties" to their parents' country of origin is inaccurate.
 

gymgal

Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Aug 22, 2008
4,686
Many children born in the U.S. to immigrants have strong ties to their parents' country of origin. I have multiple friends born in the U.S. who speak their parents' language as their first language; grew up in the culture of their parents' country of birth; have strong ties to their relatives in the "home" country; consider themselves equally American and [parents' nationality].

The American gymnasts who competed for Belarus did not have ties to Belarus, obviously, and I don't blame them but I do blame the adults who arranged it, but the assumption that a child born in the U.S. to immigrant parents has "no ties" to their parents' country of origin is inaccurate.
Hence my use of the phrase "not necessarily" and the use of "often times". :rolleyes:. Just as you used "many", not "all". At no point did I make any assumptions. I posed a generic question. And yes, obviously, there are many dual citizens with close ties to both countries.
 

Jenny

Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 17, 2012
3,441
@coachp which are state schools and which are not? Are they all state in D1 or not? We have a lot of foreign students at our universities in the UK and I would only be excited if they represented their university in any way. But we don't have scholarships. So their education and living expenses are self funded. Any funding for kit or travel with a team would include them though.

Do you think NCAA would be poorer for losing some of the big names like Peng Peng or Danusia ?
 
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2gymmies

Coach
Proud Parent
Mar 7, 2011
1,967
@coachp which are state schools and which are not? Are they all state in D1 or not? We have a lot of foreign students at our universities in the UK and I would only be excited if they represented their university in any way. But we don't have scholarships. So their education and living expenses are self funded. Any funding for kit or travel with a team would include them though.

Do you think NCAA would be poorer for losing some of the big names like Peng Peng or Danusia ?

Stanford is an example of a private school.
 
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doublestrike

Proud Parent
Jun 16, 2018
178
58
Stanford is an example of a private school.
I can't imagine no Peng or Nush at UCLA (and having Moors onboard is so exciting to the gymnastics community), and take the argument further and require public schools to only give scholarships to residents would severely impact their competitiveness. I get the UCs are designed to educate residents but no sport requires only state residents for sports scholarships. Look at football. Conversely, the competitive level of UNC, they are forced to save half their scholarships for in-state residents and have fallen behind their competitors in gymnastics (I don't think this is required for football and basketball).

I don't care if US gymnasts get a spot internationally as long as the other country is ok with it and the gymnast has some nationality ties to the country. Even in the Belarus example, their gymnastics federation backed the US gymnasts since they didn't have an elite of that caliber. Where it was a bit troublesome was that the gymnasts had no ties to the country whatsoever. It impacted other gymnasts in other countries qualifying to the AA at the Olympics though, so understand the outcry.
 
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