Parents ADHD or Just Naughty

[kandkfunk]

I have been putting her behaviour down to naughtiness and not ADHD or anything like that, my dd is now 8 and is not getting better, it seems if she is getting worse. I understand she needs to be herself at home and I am happy she behaves at school and gym. I sometimes wonder if is me as we do clash a lot. I think that the way I am with her needs to change and need to be more firmer with her. I will keep a eye on her and see how it goes.

Last night dd had a meltdown because I didn't do her tea the "right way", she had a diva strop and ended up in her bedroom. One thing I don't understand is her inability to believe anything is her fault and she cannot bring herself to say she is sorry to me or even say please & thank you (if she claims she has already said it and I didn't hear her), she can be well mannered at school.

This quote struck me because I could have written the same thing when my son was 7-8. He was a perfect angel at school and daycare. At home he was angry, moody, very talkative and sometimes loud. Nobody else saw this side of him, including my husband. People didn't necessarily believe me when I told them about his behavior. He had a lot of anger and defiance issues. One day, my husband got to see him act out and it was a real eye opener for him.

My son was always very serious and determined. I always joke that he was born an old man. His determination exhibited even as a baby - he walked at 7 months, unassisted. He could never joke about things and nothing was ever his fault (he still struggles with this one a little bit as a teenager). Sports and activity have always been great outlets for him.

At age 10, he was having a lot of outbursts. These were primarily at home and during sports. He couldn't stand to do something wrong or be corrected. It embarrassed him so he acted out in anger. We decided to put him counseling so he could learn some anger management and coping techniques. No medications needed. He just needed to learn how to control and express the feelings he was having and try to see the positive side of things and not just the negative.

Also, I worked with his pediatrician to make sure he was getting enough sleep and food. Sleep is a huge deal for young children. Our pediatrician is a firm believer that kids need at least 10 hours of sleep at night. My son has never been a good sleeper, so we worked with the doctor to find some ways to help him sleep more. All of these efforts, probably coupled with maturing, have helped tremendously. My son is a very smart, active, respectful and successful teenager. As a family, we now have ways to help him cope with his feeling and his anger issues have pretty much disappeared.

Although probably not ADHD, it wouldn't hurt to discuss your thoughts with the Pediatrician to see if they have any insight. If counseling services are available to you (not sure how the UK system works in that regard) it may be worth it to explore what your options are.

I know it can be very difficult to be the person who gets to deal with these outbursts. It can be very isolating and you feel like nobody understands. Just know that there are people who do understand and you are not alone.

 

[Ex member]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been very helpful, especially from those of you with children with ADHD, I found myself nodding away to a lot of the replies and chuckling too (not in a bad way), my dd is more than likely completely fine and being just a kid.

 

[Faith]

The gifted and talented register in the uk is an odd thing. It's a way to identify children in schools that may need more than the norm *for that school*.

It is basically the top 15% of each school, iirc. So in a failing school your g&t child may in fact not even be particularly bright.

So td, without a frame of reference it's impossible to say whether the g&t thing is relevant.

 

[Ex member]

The gifted and talented register in the uk is an odd thing. It's a way to identify children in schools that may need more than the norm *for that school*.

It is basically the top 15% of each school, iirc. So in a failing school your g&t child may in fact not even be particularly bright.

So td, without a frame of reference it's impossible to say whether the g&t thing is relevant.

In dd's school it is the top 10% that get placed on the register, I don't know why they do it to be honest unless they want to make the school look good in front of Ofsted as it doesn't make dd's education any different to the rest of her peers. Dd is already a year ahead (where she should be at the start of year 4 or more, she has just started year 3), dd has been a free reader since half way through year 2 and can spell words like intermediate.

 

[headoverheels]

Lovemygymnast, you must be hiding in my house, because you are describing my daughter perfectly.

 

[Faith]

When you say "a year ahead", do you mean compared to the national average?

So (if I get this right!) at the end of year 2 an average child would be a 2b. At the end of year 3 a 3c.

Mine aren't spectacularly bright but manage to be a couple of levels "ahead". Again, depends on the school, it's ethic, and peer groups.

I agree that it's likely school and gym are keeping her challenged, and she's simply taking out all her collected frustrations out on you at home, where she feel safe and knows she can be less than perfect

 

[Midwestmommy]

That does sound a little different than here in the US. They use various criteria here, including standardized testing (in our district they generally look at kids that test 97th+ percentile nationally spring of the previous year, other testing, and teacher recommendations). In elementary school, the G&T needs based classes in our district are in three subject groups. They also do classroom groupings, so that the "top" ten percent of kids as you decribe it would likely be in a high achievement group in the same classroom (for grades 3 to 5). The G&T is a separate program with some special class instructions for kids who are way above grade level in some subjects (for example test three or more grade levels above the grade they are in) or are identified by staff as needing more challenging classwork in one of the three areas.... This is one of the "continuums" they talk about in identifying gifted learners versus a bright children:


Bright Child
Learns with ease
Grasps the meaning
Is in the top group
Is pleased with own learning

Gifted Learner
Already knows
Draws complex inferences
Goes well beyond the group
Is highly self-critical

There is lots of research on the topic, but there are lots of social and emotional challenges with gifted learners. If you have one, you probably know it and worry a lot about them because they are sensitive, perfectionist, and their intellectual development is likely at a different level than their emotional or social development. As an example, one 4th grade girl in the program at my daughter's school scored in the 85th percentile on national testing for 12th graders in one subject. They have the potential to do wonderful things one day and also to go terribly off track. In elementary school, a good G&T program gives these kids not just academic opportunities, but also classes to try to help with social and emotional needs/potential challenges.

 

[Natasha]

Check out Love and Logic parenting. Great stuff. You should be able to google it and find the site. Lots of free articles and resources you may find helpful.

 

[iwannacoach]

Ugh...sorry, the teacher in me can't let that go.

Can't EVER keep track.... sheesh.

Run for your lives...... This gal's packing a red pencil and has access to all our permanent records.

 

[Ex member]

When you say "a year ahead", do you mean compared to the national average?

So (if I get this right!) at the end of year 2 an average child would be a 2b. At the end of year 3 a 3c.

Mine aren't spectacularly bright but manage to be a couple of levels "ahead". Again, depends on the school, it's ethic, and peer groups.

I agree that it's likely school and gym are keeping her challenged, and she's simply taking out all her collected frustrations out on you at home, where she feel safe and knows she can be less than perfect

Dd has already achieved level 3c weeks after starting year 3 and is predicted a level 3A at least before the end of year 3. To me she doesn't seem that much ahead, just a bright child who likes to get on with her work at school and please the teacher (if only she as like that with me lol)

 

[Iwannabemargo]

depending on your school that pretty common, P&F is on a table of 6, last year they all got level 5's in year 5. Kids just push the boundaries, and as parents its our job to repeatedly remind them where they are.

 

[Flossyduck]

Thanks for clearing that up Margo. I thought it was 'normal' but reading this thread had me wondering and I was thinking I should go into dd's school and ask to know why she isn't on the G & T register. She got level 4c's when she did her end of year 2 tests and last year (in year 4) she got all level 5's. She was the only one by any stretch, so I never thought anything of it. I don't think anyone in her class is on any register. Seems the levels are a bit pointless really.
You just have to look at whether they are being challenged, happy and engaged. I guess if your dd is engaged at school TD (and in gym) then she's doing fine and working at the right level, so I'd be happy they are doing a good job. Not all schools are good at keeping bright kids engaged.

 

[COz]

Um, what are all these letters anyway? 4C etc?

 

[Ex member]

Not sure what it means but they start using this scoring system in year 1.
It goes :
1C
1B
1A

And so on. The numbers don't mean what school year they are in. I think it has something to do with league tables and SAT testing that they do at the ages of 7 and 11

 

[Iwannabemargo]

they are levels and sub-levels,

so a 4c is a low level 4, a 4a is a high level 4

 

[Faith]

There's a link here that explains it;

Link Removed

 

[COz]

Thanks.

 

[aquatica]

I have a child almost exactly like you describe, and in desperation we took her to a psychologist eventually. She doesn't have any official diagnosis, but it's a mix of high energy, anxiety/difficulty handling frustration, and mental rigidity/black&white thinking. Behavioural therapy is helping her learn more effective ways of coping with difficulties, although it is an incredibly slow process. Could be you are dealing with some kind of mix as well - not quite any one thing but borderline for a few.

 

[momto2js]

I will add my experience to the list. My son has ADHD inattentive type. I finally figured it out after my son completed 1st grade he was 7 at the time. He was NEVER in trouble at school and was above average in performance. I mean my son NEVER came home on anything but green in his two years at school. He was put on the gym team at 5 because his focus and behavior was really good for a young kid. However, as the expectations both at the gym and at school increased his executive functioning deficits became more evident.

By the end of first grade, we were not even I out of the school parking lot when the explosion would happen. He would SCREAM. Explosive is the only way to describe the kid I lived with. It took almost nothing to set him off. There were days when we would leave the school parking lot and would have to stop in a parking lot on the way home to let him get some of the frustration out on the way home because I could not safely drive the car with the fit going on in the back seat. The effort that it took to stay focused and still at school took such a toll on him there was simply nothing left by the time he got home to me, and he knew I was safe to let the frustration out on. It was miserable for both of us.

Getting to the right answer was not a easy path. I ended up using an educational physiologist to do a complete evaluation. Part of it is asking the RIGHT questions of the teacher. Not just does he cause the teach problems, it turns out that there were times that she turned his desk around so he would focus on the work and not fidget with what was inside the desk, she perceived that he hurried through work just to get it done. None of this was brought to my attention because for the most part, my kid didn't disrupt things or draw attention to himself. Just because he towed the line at school didn't mean that there wasn't an issue.

We are using a small dose of medication, and also having him see a cognitive behavior therapist to help develop some missing executive functioning skills. It is a hard road, but I believe that my son will have skills in the long run that will benefit him in adulthood long term. My best advice, is that if you are finding that your child's behavior regularly strains your relationship with them, then it is time to find some help. One way or another, It sounds like both of you can use some help figuring out the best way to make things better.

 

[gwenmom]

I agree with the previous posters.

DD is very ADHD and some of the behaviors you have described but they are across the board. In fact, worse at school then at home.