WAG All I can say is wow.

[krisnkids]

I agree that a 7 is extremely generous for a L4 routine w/ no BHS. I see routines in L5 and L6 where the gymnast *clearly* has all the skills get 7's just because of form issues that have nothing to do w/ safety (and from what I've seen so far in L6 floor, a high 8 is going to get you in the top 3 btw). I was hoping she'd say she saw some 5's :/. Did you notice how these bad bhs girls were doing on the other events? Were they all around unprepared, or were they just bad at floor?

They were a mess on every event. All scored in the "Bronze" category, one placed on an event which I believe was Vault. I even said to one parent that if they can't do a complete floor routine but want to compete, fine, scratch on floor. I was so shocked at the 7's that were given out on floor. Most should have been 6's if not 5.

 

[gymgal]

^^ Some parents might not realize the danger, think their coach has it under control, and wouldn't be letting them throw the skill if they weren't ready. Think of some of the questions we get here, things that may seem obvious to most of CB, but to someone who has just started it probably sounds like Chinese.

And especially when everyone is telling the parent to trust the coaches, which we constantly tell newbies here. If you don't know much about the sport, you may not know when to stop trusting and start asking questions. Hopefully those parents now have seen good skills and routines and will start asking questions.

 

[krisnkids]

And especially when everyone is telling the parent to trust the coaches, which we constantly tell newbies here. If you don't know much about the sport, you may not know when to stop trusting and start asking questions. Hopefully those parents now have seen good skills and routines and will start asking questions.

I think to an extent yes you have to trust your coaches but you also have to trust your gut. Same thing with doctors, you as a parent have to be your child's biggest advocate, if you think something is being done that is questionable, you as a paying parent have the right to politely ask what the reasoning behind the decision is. Not to the extent of Susie getting her kip.

 

[Gymmommy71]

If they are bad on all 4 events, it sounds like a gym who is way too liberal about who they invite on team. Like all you need to do is show up and pay your bill and you're a L4. Gymnastics isn't supposed to work that way . Poor parents are probably paying a lot of money for it too.

 

[gymkat]

Judge gymkat wants to step in and say that it's perfectly possible for a routine with no BHS to get a 7, and it may not even be particularly "generous."

It's also not a deduction to stand in for a BHS (in compulsories) if you don't touch the gymnast.

 

[sportyfam5]

Perhaps it is poorly trained coaches, or just coaches that are too young to know any better or care. They are probably over worked and underpaid. Maybe they thought it would be a "fun" or "easy" job. Our gym has quite a mix of ages and abilities as far as coaching. However, 6-7 years ago when my girls were Pre-team (3-5 years old), the coaches were all adults (over 25), consistent, well trained and actually made sure not only tricks but drills were performed correctly. I am fortunate that my girls (level 9 and working back into level8) work with well informed adults as their coaches.
Maybe this is partly why USAG will be changing rules and many states have added Xcel or prep op, which I think is a great option for a lot of kids and will help USAG levels as well.

 

[Flossyduck]

This is interesting.

Over here, although the levels, grades and progressions are very different, they still have a set of required skills you need to compete at each one.

At our gym, there is a lot of focus on doing every skill just right, with perfect technique and they build up slowly with lots and lots of drills. Sometimes decisions are made not to put a skill in to a routine if the child can't do it without deductions. Last year a couple of girls were not allowed to include their BHS because, although they could do them, they didn't look good enough to compete.

It was interesting because we weren't at the gym at the time and daughter wasn't competing either, but I heard the story from mums at our old gym at the time about how these girls had turned up, done the routine - either without the skill or with a coach spot for it and had still swept the medals. They just couldn't believe it and were so irritated that their girls had done the whole routine and it meant nothing.

I understand now that they can take the deduction hit for not doing the skill because they know the other gyms will be getting far more in smaller deductions for incorrect form and so on. I'd sooner that than watch them throw something, but to a newbie it must seem quite odd.

 

[profmom]

Question for you judges out there: if a gymnast performs a really scary Yurchenko or Tsuk, can you refuse her permission to do a second vault? Or is the only leverage a low score?

 

[Faith]

Question for you judges out there: if a gymnast performs a really scary Yurchenko or Tsuk, can you refuse her permission to do a second vault? Or is the only leverage a low score?

Interesting. I know as a judge in equestrian competitions I have, and been well within my rights to stop anything I deemed harmful or dangerous. I've stopped horses mid dressage test and sent them out for being lame, and I've seen showjumpers stopped for being insane and dangerous to the horse and rider. I would assume this applies to all sports, but maybe it's because we have extra leverage with animal health? Although why would animals have more rights than children...

 

[my4buffaloes]

That might have been us a few years ago. When my oldest started on this journey we were so completely clueless. I remember being at her first meet thinking her routines looked good to me and her scores were in the 6's LOL, we had no idea what we were looking at! And it all happened so fast, from so far away I could not have been able to tell if her arms were bent or not. This is where trusting the coaches to take care of your child comes in. Except as we found out after a year or so that we were not at a good gym and I bet my dd looked like what you described for at least the first year of competition. But I didn't know how it should look or that anything was wrong with what she was doing.

 

[my4buffaloes]

Question for you judges out there: if a gymnast performs a really scary Yurchenko or Tsuk, can you refuse her permission to do a second vault? Or is the only leverage a low score?

I saw a judge question a coach about a girl this weekend. She had her ankle all wrapped up. She did her first vault fine. Except she would hardly put any weight on the ankle as she walked back to do her second vault. The judge watched with a questioning look on her face and then called the coach over to ask about the ankle (vault was on the edge right where I was standing). The coach replied that it was fine, that the girl was just babying it. She did a second vault and ran on it fine, but it clearly hurt her and I don't know how smart it was for her to be out there.

 

[krisnkids]

Judge gymkat wants to step in and say that it's perfectly possible for a routine with no BHS to get a 7, and it may not even be particularly "generous."

It's also not a deduction to stand in for a BHS (in compulsories) if you don't touch the gymnast.

I did not see the whole routine other than the robhs where she landed, but after that I watched the rest of the girls. No skill was finished, toes were not pointed, knees bent etc.

 

[gymgal]

Question for you judges out there: if a gymnast performs a really scary Yurchenko or Tsuk, can you refuse her permission to do a second vault? Or is the only leverage a low score?

I know from dds experience with her fhs over Vt that things happen and it doesn't mean they are incompetent to do the Vt. Last season, dd botched her first Vts a few times (think near headspring, or bauking) even though she hardly ever did this in practice. It was just nerves or miscounted steps. It would have been wrong for a judge to not allow her to go again based on a false assumption.

I realize the L8+ vts are more dangerous but the same type of timing errors can (and do) happen. Now, maybe a judge can tell the difference in watching so many gymnasts which ones can/cannot do the skill vs just a timing error.

 

[profmom]

Of course, any kid can botch a skill unexpectedly and in a dangerous way at any time. That's what makes this sport so fun for parents! But, for instance, in the incident I mentioned above, the girl who crashed her Yurchenko had done some very weak, scary timers before vaulting and was getting heavy spotting by her coach according to people who were watching the whole rotation. For the first scored vault, the coach stepped back and let her go, resulting in a trip to the hospital. The general consensus from our team parents with 9s and 10s seemed to be that she had no business doing that vault anywhere but into a pit with a coach spotting her all the way, and possibly not even then. I'd like to think that, had the injury been less severe and had she attempted a second vault, a judge would have had the authority to stop her.

 

[gymgal]

Of course, any kid can botch a skill unexpectedly and in a dangerous way at any time. That's what makes this sport so fun for parents! But, for instance, in the incident I mentioned above, the girl who crashed her Yurchenko had done some very weak, scary timers before vaulting and was getting heavy spotting by her coach according to people who were watching the whole rotation. For the first scored vault, the coach stepped back and let her go, resulting in a trip to the hospital. The general consensus from our team parents with 9s and 10s seemed to be that she had no business doing that vault anywhere but into a pit with a coach spotting her all the way, and possibly not even then. I'd like to think that, had the injury been less severe and had she attempted a second vault, a judge would have had the authority to stop her.

Gotcha. I didn't realize it was something so overtly obvious. And I forgot about warmups. If you see 4+ vts/timers in warmups, you get a pretty good idea about relative competence, though depending on the meet setup, the judges may not be viewing warmups.

I wonder if the state's gymnastics association needs to start stepping in and talking with these gym about safety and proper level placement for the girls. Obviously its not safe for the girls but it also has to be frustrating for the girls who obviously are scoring poorly.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Unfortunately there are coaches who think they know how to coach anything and everything, not a single thing you say to them will change their thinking (or ego).

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Gotcha. I didn't realize it was something so overtly obvious. And I forgot about warmups. If you see 4+ vts/timers in warmups, you get a pretty good idea about relative competence, though depending on the meet setup, the judges may not be viewing warmups.

I wonder if the state's gymnastics association needs to start stepping in and talking with these gym about safety and proper level placement for the girls. Obviously its not safe for the girls but it also has to be frustrating for the girls who obviously are scoring poorly.

you can't police STOOOOPID...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Unfortunately there are coaches who think they know how to coach anything and everything, not a single thing you say to them will change their thinking (or ego).

that is correct...as all of your posts are.