Women Another USAG screw up

[GymDad9.9]

And when Kathy Kelly finally DOES respond to FBI requests for information,she totally throws CEO Steve Penny under the bus by saying "according to our by laws, the CEO is responsible for member misconducts. Our by-laws outline the procedures that we must follow regarding complaints" ...well maybe that is part of the problem...if your head honcho is the only one who can do this , but everyone else knows and can't act, maybe a new system should be looked at?

BINGO!!!!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

And when Kathy Kelly finally DOES respond to FBI requests for information,she totally throws CEO Steve Penny under the bus by saying "according to our by laws, the CEO is responsible for member misconducts. Our by-laws outline the procedures that we must follow regarding complaints" ...well maybe that is part of the problem...if your head honcho is the only one who can do this , but everyone else knows and can't act, maybe a new system should be looked at?

Lot of truth there. Lets write the by laws so we don't get in trouble and can easily mitigate our liability, instead of protecting the children.

 

[l.c.o]

I think that maybe we're forgetting that it's possible that many children did not report activity to their parents.

To be honest, by the time I was in high school I wasn't even sure anymore what was "harassment" and what was "normal". By the age of 16 I had an incident occur where I worked and did not report it as unfortunately, it was not all that uncommon for me to experience... It was just the first time it happened to be in a place of employment with an older boss. As an adult, I can better see it for what it was.

It can sometimes be VERY difficult for a child to determine what is actually not ok... It's common from a young age to deal with comments and pressure and etc. Where is the line?

I wish that USAG would have further investigated, especially with the frequency of reports.

I DO understand the need to protect against false accusations, but not at the expense of a child's well-being (or that of other future kids). Even if someone is exonerated and allegations are proven false, an accusation can be career-ending. I get this. But to what degree should we place coach safety over that of children? IMHO, it flat out should have been investigated further. By someone. Anyone.

The gyms going to USAG and not the authorities is a bit concerning to me. I get the gym not wanting to upset parents and risk a defamation suit by going public with their concerns (even if I somewhat disagree). I mean, if a coach makes lewd comments to another coach about Susie, I maybe get being wary of alerting Susie's family, especially if Susie seems to be acting 'normally'. Maybe them letting USAG know and firing the coach may have felt like a compromise. But there needed to be some accountability and follow-through somewhere.

USAG letting it go infuriates me. Just to protect their organization? Sad. So sad. And this sort of thing (protecting an organization at a cost) is much too common.

 

[GlobalNomad]

Who are they protecting first, the children or the coaches?

The coaches.
And, because these coaches don't abuse every single child, there's a chorus of "but we like that coach" that seems to follow abuse accusations.
Is it still USAG policy that the complaint has to come from the parent / athlete?

 

[bookworm]

To be honest, by the time I was in high school I wasn't even sure anymore what was "harassment" and what was "normal". By the age of 16 I had an incident occur where I worked and did not report it as unfortunately, it was not all that uncommon for me to experience... It was just the first time it happened to be in a place of employment with an older boss. As an adult, I can better see it for what it was.

It can sometimes be VERY difficult for a child to determine what is actually not ok... It's common from a young age to deal with comments and pressure and etc. Where is the line?
.

"Exposed his genitals to some gymnasts" , back in 1997, is pretty cut and dried for me....

 

[twocurlygirlz]

All speculating on USAG aside. How is it that the parents and victims do not press charges?

Who lets their kid be abused and only tells the gym not the police? A criminal conviction gets the person on the offender list. Telling the gym and getting them fired does not.

And also how do the gym owners NOT call the police or department of children and families- this alone could have very well have stopped this in its tracks- USAG is just really a licensing body- just like a Board of Examiners that gives licenses to day care workers, etc- they alone are not enough- people must REPORT, gym owners, parents, kids, friends,teachers- relying on a privately run entity to enforce laws & good behavior has NEVER worked in all of history. This is so so sad.

 

[twocurlygirlz]

and to add he was in Florida for lots of this-- this is Florida Statute 39.201
39.201 Mandatory reports of child abuse, abandonment, or neglect; mandatory reports of death; central abuse hotline.—
(1)(a) Any person who knows, or has reasonable cause to suspect, that a child is abused, abandoned, or neglected by a parent, legal custodian, caregiver, or other person responsible for the child’s welfare, as defined in this chapter, or that a child is in need of supervision and care and has no parent, legal custodian, or responsible adult relative immediately known and available to provide supervision and care shall report such knowledge or suspicion to the department in the manner prescribed in subsection (2).
(b) Any person who knows, or who has reasonable cause to suspect, that a child is abused by an adult other than a parent, legal custodian, caregiver, or other person responsible for the child’s welfare, as defined in this chapter, shall report such knowledge or suspicion to the department in the manner prescribed in subsection (2).

 

[flippin out]

All speculating on USAG aside. How is it that the parents and victims do not press charges?

Who lets their kid be abused and only tells the gym not the police? A criminal conviction gets the person on the offender list. Telling the gym and getting them fired does not.

It sounded to me as if at least one set of parents contacted police....after all, there was a protection order filed against him

 

[duyetanh]

"Exposed his genitals to some gymnasts" , back in 1997, is pretty cut and dried for me....

I was thinking the same. And touching someone's areas that are considered private is another. Ugh.

 

[GymDad9.9]

and to add he was in Florida for lots of this-- this is Florida Statute 39.201
39.201 Mandatory reports of child abuse, abandonment, or neglect; mandatory reports of death; central abuse hotline.—
(1)(a) Any person who knows, or has reasonable cause to suspect, that a child is abused, abandoned, or neglected by a parent, legal custodian, caregiver, or other person responsible for the child’s welfare, as defined in this chapter, or that a child is in need of supervision and care and has no parent, legal custodian, or responsible adult relative immediately known and available to provide supervision and care shall report such knowledge or suspicion to the department in the manner prescribed in subsection (2).
(b) Any person who knows, or who has reasonable cause to suspect, that a child is abused by an adult other than a parent, legal custodian, caregiver, or other person responsible for the child’s welfare, as defined in this chapter, shall report such knowledge or suspicion to the department in the manner prescribed in subsection (2).

This Statute seems to have an extensive legislative history to it and I believe what you posted is from 2012 so some of this law may not have been in existence at the time of McCabe's activity in Florida. These laws seem to evolve over time.

 

[duyetanh]

This is all just ****. Disgusts me to no end. The only thing good is he is finally in prison. Let's hope he serves the whole term and doesn't get out early for good behavior.

 

[twocurlygirlz]

This Statute seems to have an extensive legislative history to it and I believe what you posted is from 2012 so some of this law may not have been in existence at the time of McCabe's activity in Florida. These laws seem to evolve over time.

You are absolutely right- the PennState scandal is why this was enacted and there is NO time limiting on reporting- so hopefully in FLA even more will come forward now- such a shame.

 

[profmom]

Why do gyms go to USAG? Well, I'd guess if the owners have any idea of how federalism works, they would want to report to the national professional licensing association. There have been many cases where a sexual predator identified as such in one state's registry simply crosses state lines and starts over again. A prudent gym owner might have been thinking that the best thing to do would be to report to USAG, believing in good faith that USAG would investigate and get the bad guy banned from coaching nation-wide. They trusted their organization, and their organization failed them big time. I'm sure many owners are rethinking this now and are more likely to report to the state in some form.

An order of protection may be civil or criminal. Many victims opt for civil orders for the reasons I've explained elsewhere.

 

[profmom]

And abusers count on all that.

I could not in good conscience not report. Knowing that these types of crimes just don't happen once but over and over. I.Just.Could.Not.

You don't know that until you have been there with your child. A lot depends on the nature of victim services in your area, the local police, and the tenor of the DA's office. Children react to these sorts of traumas in a variety of ways. If it happened to my child and I had a great therapist telling me that the local police and criminal law context were such that my child would be subject to significant secondary trauma by pursuing formal criminal remedies, you bet I'd think twice. Ideally we would live in a world where individuals subjected to these crimes were treated with sensitivity, compassion, and respect, but all too often, that is not the world we inhabit.

Of all the individuals in this horrible morass, the parents and children bear the least responsibility for predators such as McCabe's capacity to offend repeatedly.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

An order of protection may be civil or criminal. Many victims opt for civil orders for the reasons I've explained elsewhere.

Also an order of protection is about personal protection. Not having to do with the public at large.

I had an order of protection for a brief time when married to my ex. He wasn't a danger to any one but me, in very specific circumstances. Great guy if you were hanging out with him at the bar. Not so to me at home, after the bar.

An abuser is risk to the public at large, but you have to file charges and they have to be the right charges for the offense.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Gosh, this is like a bad and nightmarish replay of the USA Swimming scandal. The corruption was so far reaching, it even included parents involved in the cover ups. One set of parents of a girl abused by her well known coach actually signed an agreement and accepted payment from the scumbag coach to keep the matter quiet. It has only been recently that people view the abused child as a completely blameless party in all of this. Many of these situations were kept quiet to preserve the reputation of the girl as well as the coach.Readabout the Kelley Currin case. It is absolutely heartbreaking. USA Swimming should have cleaned house a long time ago, and now it sounds like USAG needs to as well. The lesson here is that they are wonderful sports for the majority of kids, but parents have to be vigilant to make sure children are not in situations where they are alone with coaches either traveling or in the gym. No privates when noone else is around, no inappropriate travel situations, no socializing with coaches outside the gym, keep an eye out for coaches grooming your child with special attention he isn't giving the others.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You don't know that until you have been there with your child. A lot depends on the nature of victim services in your area, the local police, and the tenor of the DA's office. Children react to these sorts of traumas in a variety of ways. If it happened to my child and I had a great therapist telling me that the local police and criminal law context were such that my child would be subject to significant secondary trauma by pursuing formal criminal remedies, you bet I'd think twice. Ideally we would live in a world where individuals subjected to these crimes were treated with sensitivity, compassion, and respect, but all too often, that is not the world we inhabit.

Of all the individuals in this horrible morass, the parents and children bear the least responsibility for predators such as McCabe's capacity to offend repeatedly.

I get what you are saying. And if no one steps up and reports the offender his capacity to reoffend is unlimited and essentially guaranteed. That the abuse happened is NOT the parent/childs fault. But there is responsibility in it continuing to happen if they don't report.

We would report. I would get as many therapists and lawyers as needed to protect my child and help her. Move if we had to. But we would report.

 

[GymDad9.9]

Why do gyms go to USAG? Well, I'd guess if the owners have any idea of how federalism works, they would want to report to the national professional licensing association. There have been many cases where a sexual predator identified as such in one state's registry simply crosses state lines and starts over again. A prudent gym owner might have been thinking that the best thing to do would be to report to USAG, believing in good faith that USAG would investigate and get the bad guy banned from coaching nation-wide. They trusted their organization, and their organization failed them big time. I'm sure many owners are rethinking this now and are more likely to report to the state in some form.

An order of protection may be civil or criminal. Many victims opt for civil orders for the reasons I've explained elsewhere.

In McCabe's case his downfall was when Lisa Ganser called the FBI regarding the emails her daughter was receiving and charges seemed to be federally based. If a predator goes from one state to another to do same, would that not constitute the commission of crimes federally and also involve the FBI?

 

[profmom]

It only worked in the McCabe case because federal charges were available due to his use of electronic transmissions.

 

[coachmolly]

I think these cases seem a lot more black and white from the outside looking in, but it's pretty clear cut that USAG has continuously acted in a negligent way when it comes to protecting child athletes. I completely understand that naming a person will have ripple effects as I've seen it first hand, and it's heartbreaking for the innocent who are impacted, but it's also necessary. I previously worked with some really spectacular coaches whose name was tarnished due to a parent being an offender on the permanently banned list and saw how it impacted them and their ability to do what they loved through no fault of their own, but unfortunately, that's just how it has to work to protect more children in the long-term. And that's not the fault of USAG, that's the fault of perpetrator engaging in an action that will impact far more than just him/her. I think USAG needs to re-prioritize and worry less about stepping on toes and more about protecting children.
I think some blame is also on individual gyms who think they can skate by doing the bare minimum in terms of background checks or employing best practices. I know so many gyms who only background check team coaches because that's all that is required by USAG or who are lax when it comes to employee interactions with students because they "trust" that employee or think that "nothing like that will happen here." I think there needs to be a full system reform, not just within USAG itself, but also in what they are asking of gym clubs.