Parents Any tips for weak vaulter?

[observantmom]

DD (age 10) is competing as a level 6 this year and is having a strong year overall - she is consistently performing well at bars, beam, and floor. Vault, however, seems to be all over the board with little consistency and scores ranging from low 8's to high 8's but never above 9.0. She is smaller in stature (i.e. petite frame etc.) and hasn't hit her growth spurt yet. I asked her coach if there is anything she should be working on to try and to improve and the coach suggested that once she goes through her growth spurt, she will likely find vault easier. Any parents have some insights to share on this? I understand the concept of growth = power conceptually, but have you found this to be true? Have you found anything that has helped vault to "click" for your daughter? Any tips would be appreciated!

 

[Coach Kate]

Many issues with vault stem from the run. My vault improved loads when I started middle school track and did actual running drills and regular sprint workouts. I ended up doing D3 track in college as well. As an adult, I would be part of gyms that regularly did running mechanic clinics for their gymnasts and it was a lot of the same things I'd done for track.

 

[AAAinNOLA]

My daughter is a L6 too, also aged 10. She has scored all over the place on vault as well. I personally tend to think that the L6 / L7 vault are HARD to do well IF you are judging by score alone. I know they all want the high scores, but my daughter even got 2nd at one meet with an 8.875 - meaning, I don't see many L6 girls consistently crushing the vault score. My daughter has been anywhere from 8.8 to 9.350, and she is playing with tsuk versus yurchenko. As I understand it, it has a lot to do with the block, angle OFF the table (height) and "can this vault flip?" Given you don't have to flip until L8 it makes sense to me that L6 girls are still figuring it out in terms of what that feels like. All to say - you aren't alone. And I don't think in the 8 range is "weak" - for what that is worth

 

[CuriousCate]

What vault are they doing? My DD's level 6 team all do a Yurchenko timer and I'd say that 75% score in the mid-high 8s while a few score low 8s and a few score low 9s. And these girls are scoring really well on all three other events, but the timer just doesn't seem to get there yet. The girls scoring in the 9s are a few inches taller than most of the others, but there are some mid-height girls who score in the low 9s as well.

To your point though, my kid is the same age and one of the smaller ones, but pretty built and sturdy and she can't score over a 8.950 no matter how hard she tries. She won vault for states last season with a 9.7 for her front handspring vault, and is able to land a flipped Yurchenko pretty cleanly, but the timer just does not seem to score well for her.

We see a lot of kids scoring really high (like 9.5+) with a FHS timer on level 6 and a lot of low 9s with a Tsuk timer.

 

[observantmom]

What vault are they doing? My DD's level 6 team all do a Yurchenko timer and I'd say that 75% score in the mid-high 8s while a few score low 8s and a few score low 9s. And these girls are scoring really well on all three other events, but the timer just doesn't seem to get there yet. The girls scoring in the 9s are a few inches taller than most of the others, but there are some mid-height girls who score in the low 9s as well.

To your point though, my kid is the same age and one of the smaller ones, but pretty built and sturdy and she can't score over a 8.950 no matter how hard she tries. She won vault for states last season with a 9.7 for her front handspring vault, and is able to land a flipped Yurchenko pretty cleanly, but the timer just does not seem to score well for her.

We see a lot of kids scoring really high (like 9.5+) with a FHS timer on level 6 and a lot of low 9s with a Tsuk timer.

She is doing the Tsuk timer in competition but is practicing the Yurchenko at the gym but hasn't competed it. I couldn't begin to tell you if she's good at the Yurchenko or not. She is not able to break the 9.0 barrier with the Tsuk timer and my guess is that a Yurchenko would be even lower or they'd have her competing it.

The coach did say something to the effect that timers and the actual vault (L8+) are two different things and some kids who aren't great at timers actually end up being great vaulters. (but didn't actually say my kid would be a great vaulter ha ha).

 

[observantmom]

My daughter is a L6 too, also aged 10. She has scored all over the place on vault as well. I personally tend to think that the L6 / L7 vault are HARD to do well IF you are judging by score alone. I know they all want the high scores, but my daughter even got 2nd at one meet with an 8.875 - meaning, I don't see many L6 girls consistently crushing the vault score. My daughter has been anywhere from 8.8 to 9.350, and she is playing with tsuk versus yurchenko. As I understand it, it has a lot to do with the block, angle OFF the table (height) and "can this vault flip?" Given you don't have to flip until L8 it makes sense to me that L6 girls are still figuring it out in terms of what that feels like. All to say - you aren't alone. And I don't think in the 8 range is "weak" - for what that is worth

That's a great point - they do have another year to practice it before it really becomes high pressure and I'm hopeful that more repetition, strength training, and growth will help! And thank you - such a good point, 8's are not "weak" necessarily but I know she'd love to see some 9's someday!

 

[AAAinNOLA]

That's a great point - they do have another year to practice it before it really becomes high pressure and I'm hopeful that more repetition, strength training, and growth will help! And thank you - such a good point, 8's are not "weak" necessarily but I know she'd love to see some 9's someday!

Yes and my comment was really to reassure you since I have a daughter the same age and level. She went from a career high on vault (9.625 if I remember) on the FHS vault during her L5 test out meet in the Fall back to the 8s. Needless to say, for a gymnast who is used to seeing some better scores, she, too, was like "it's hard to score well!" Now all of that said, we competed in a meet in January that happened to have one of the best L6 teams in the country (as measured by team score on the Top 100 list so not just my subjective opinion). These girls were solid and very impressive. Even they did not score out of the 8s on the L6 vault. I think the timer (regardless of entry) is one where it kinda looks weird to begin with and the girls aren't sure what the judge is looking for. The landing has kind of left the equation for now, which is counterintuitive to the years prior. So it gets back to the block and height (and "can this vault flip") as I understand it. My daughter is flipping hers into the pit so in theory hers can BUT not sure it's translating at a meet LOL Anyway - just know your daughter isn't all that off. I think the more they compete it, the better they will get. And if you keep going with this sport you never need this vault again, just the entry part of course!

 

[observantmom]

Yes and my comment was really to reassure you since I have a daughter the same age and level. She went from a career high on vault (9.625 if I remember) on the FHS vault during her L5 test out meet in the Fall back to the 8s. Needless to say, for a gymnast who is used to seeing some better scores, she, too, was like "it's hard to score well!" Now all of that said, we competed in a meet in January that happened to have one of the best L6 teams in the country (as measured by team score on the Top 100 list so not just my subjective opinion). These girls were solid and very impressive. Even they did not score out of the 8s on the L6 vault. I think the timer (regardless of entry) is one where it kinda looks weird to begin with and the girls aren't sure what the judge is looking for. The landing has kind of left the equation for now, which is counterintuitive to the years prior. So it gets back to the block and height (and "can this vault flip") as I understand it. My daughter is flipping hers into the pit so in theory hers can BUT not sure it's translating at a meet LOL Anyway - just know your daughter isn't all that off. I think the more they compete it, the better they will get. And if you keep going with this sport you never need this vault again, just the entry part of course!

I appreciate your perspective and honestly, it is reassuring to know that some of these super high performing teams also find the timer to be awkward and lower scoring. She's been practicing flipping it into the pit as well but I have no idea whether that will mean she can do it onto an actual vault floor some day. Let's hope so!! Cheers to meeting another parent with a 10 year old L6 - I'm sure we will be pining away for these simpler times in a few years when things really get complex!

 

[Whyhellothere]

She is doing the Tsuk timer in competition but is practicing the Yurchenko at the gym but hasn't competed it. I couldn't begin to tell you if she's good at the Yurchenko or not. She is not able to break the 9.0 barrier with the Tsuk timer and my guess is that a Yurchenko would be even lower or they'd have her competing it.

The coach did say something to the effect that timers and the actual vault (L8+) are two different things and some kids who aren't great at timers actually end up being great vaulters. (but didn't actually say my kid would be a great vaulter ha ha).

Ok, for what it is worth. My daughter would score high 9s for floor bars and beam in level 7.
And usually 8.5-9 on vault. She did yurchenko timers. Now she usually wins vault! She won every level 8 meet for vault and is doing great in level 9 as well.

Soooo flipping and timers are most definitely different!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Timers are a pain In the scoring. And flipping vaults are a whole other thing.

It simply gets harder and it takes time. Lots of time. That’s why they are doing timers in L6.

 

[pagymmom]

I want to chime in with our first year at level 8 vault. Our daughter just did a year at 6 and a year at 7 and her vault scores ranged from about 8.3 to 9.2 depending on the meet. They literally looked exactly the same to me in each meet. So, some of it is that it is just hard to judge timers. She did not flip her vault for the first few meets this year (she does the tsuk tuck in competition). She just flipped her vault for the first time and got a 9.2. She is a track athlete as well and does long jump and sprint hurdles so the run was not her problem. But she was already bending her legs going into the vault thinking that it would help her flip sooner. So now she keeps her legs straight and does it right and flipping is way easier - imagine that.

So, I really would not worry about the level 6/7 vault score. It doesn't mean much and scores don't really mean much at these levels overall. It is all about skill progression and their ability to continue to develop. I know a girl who scored extremely high at these levels and now at level 8 she can't get the bars no matter what and it just gets harder.

 

[JBS]

I understand the concept of growth = power conceptually, but have you found this to be true?

Absolutely!

Here is some stuff from Shift...

The Best Gymnastics Leg Conditioning For Explosive Power on Vault and Floor

Gymnastics requires very strong legs, and in this blog post Dr. Dave Tilley shares the best ones for gymnasts to use!

shiftmovementscience.com

The 3 Steps for Building Explosive Speed and Power in Gymnastics

Explosive speed and power are what many gymnastics coaches are looking to achieve when they train in the gym. Whether it’s through improving technique by working drills, improving strength by doing physical preparation, or improving speed with cardio circuits, typically ‘getting faster’ is what...

shiftmovementscience.com

 

[observantmom]

I want to chime in with our first year at level 8 vault. Our daughter just did a year at 6 and a year at 7 and her vault scores ranged from about 8.3 to 9.2 depending on the meet. They literally looked exactly the same to me in each meet. So, some of it is that it is just hard to judge timers. She did not flip her vault for the first few meets this year (she does the tsuk tuck in competition). She just flipped her vault for the first time and got a 9.2. She is a track athlete as well and does long jump and sprint hurdles so the run was not her problem. But she was already bending her legs going into the vault thinking that it would help her flip sooner. So now she keeps her legs straight and does it right and flipping is way easier - imagine that.

So, I really would not worry about the level 6/7 vault score. It doesn't mean much and scores don't really mean much at these levels overall. It is all about skill progression and their ability to continue to develop. I know a girl who scored extremely high at these levels and now at level 8 she can't get the bars no matter what and it just gets harder.

Thanks for sharing. And my daughter's coach had mentioned that "timers are one thing" and "flipping the vault" is another. This seems to back that up. I'll share that tip about the straight legs though - good to know!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Which category of vault entry is she focusing on? (ie handspring, yurchenko, or tsuk)

 

[observantmom]

Which category of vault entry is she focusing on? (ie handspring, yurchenko, or tsuk)

She's been competing the Tsuk but has been practicing yurchenko since last summer. Sounds like they may have her compete the Yurchenko soon - not sure if it will happen this season or not as there are only 2 meets left. They've already informed her that the goal is the Yurchenko though and she will be expected to compete that next year when she is a 7. She tells me she feels better about the Yurchenko than the Tsuk but the coach said more opportunities for deductions on the Yurchenko so they aren't putting it out there until they feel confident she can score well with it.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

She's been competing the Tsuk but has been practicing yurchenko since last summer. Sounds like they may have her compete the Yurchenko soon - not sure if it will happen this season or not as there are only 2 meets left. They've already informed her that the goal is the Yurchenko though and she will be expected to compete that next year when she is a 7. She tells me she feels better about the Yurchenko than the Tsuk but the coach said more opportunities for deductions on the Yurchenko so they aren't putting it out there until they feel confident she can score well with it.

That's probably the same route I'd go with an athlete who struggles to generate power.

Sounds to me like she and the coaches are doing everything right; just gotta be patient and wait for her to grow enough to properly compress a springboard.

 

[observantmom]

That's probably the same route I'd go with an athlete who struggles to generate power.

Sounds to me like she and the coaches are doing everything right; just gotta be patient and wait for her to grow enough to properly compress a springboard.

Thanks for your input! And I'm hopeful that the ongoing summer conditioning and strength workouts may help with the power too.