Athletes or Children?

[Galadriel]

Coaches have to do coach exams as well in the uk for different disciplines and for different levels

 

[triptwister]

Wow what's wrong with us, jacquie? I'm trying. Hopefully us coaches in America will be able to hold our heads high some day. For now our heads hang low. I'm so ashamed. "weeps"

Why don't they listen to me? ...I'm such a nobody...
"sniffles"

 

[Coacharella]

In order to coach Rec, you have to take three courses making you a L1 coach. Theory, Technical, Practical.

Theory is like a sit down class where you discuss ehtics, designing lesson plans, motivation, etc. I believe it is 8 hours. Then for Technical you spend two 8 hour days in the gym learning to spot, do simple skills, create circuits, games, etc. Then Practical you must complete a certain # of hours actually coaching, and have a L2 coach sign off indicating you have done so. Also you have to complete a notebook that you send in for approval.

Then Level 2. You have to do a theory (2 days in class), You have to do 4 days in the gym (all technical training, spotting, etc). You have to pass a spotting test on each apparatus AND a written test on your last day. If you fail spotting or fail the written test, you have to pay again and take the course again. Then you have to do 200 hours of L2 coaching (pre comp L2-4, L5-9, or Advanced Rec), have a head coach sign off on it, and send it in to Gymnastics Canada for approval.

Then L3 you have to wait two years as a L2 coach before you can even take it. I believe this is 30-40 hours in the gym and then a theory course and practical period of hours. You can coach NAtional Athletes at L3.

And L4 I do not know too much about.

Then, to even step foot on trampolines, you need to take other courses. These mentioned above are just how Womens Artistic works.

 

[coachmolly]

Remarkable perspicuity in your post, Geoffrey Taucer. Thank you.

The Department of Professional Gymnastics Regulation should have different requirements, minimums, and tests that must be achieved in order to receive various coaching titles...Plus pay fees to take those tests...Recreational, Compulsory, Tiered Optional, Elite, College, etc.

The Board of Gymnastics Education should issue the textbooks and curriculum's that lead to graduation at different coaching levels. Then you can take the tests that classify you as professional at those levels as mentioned above.

Lets get busy and make this happen. Where are the gymnastics politicians?

I totally agree that something like this is desperately needed in the US. My brother is a competitive swim coach and had to go through a USA Swimming certification program before coaching. I think the first level or 2 is a written test administered online with the rest being reached through hands on experience and athlete success. I'm not too sure about the details, but it seems like USAG would have enough resources through other governing bodies in the US as well as programs used in other countries to put together something.
I have looked into the USA Gymnastics University, but the last time I looked the website was a little confusing and I wasn't exactly sure what was going on. It would be great if they could get that off the ground! I just hope that they make it affordable for those of us working in programs not especially dedicated to coach education who want to pursue that avenue independently.

 

[gymjourneymom]

I totally agree that something like this is desperately needed in the US. My brother is a competitive swim coach and had to go through a USA Swimming certification program before coaching. I think the first level or 2 is a written test administered online with the rest being reached through hands on experience and athlete success. I'm not too sure about the details, but it seems like USAG would have enough resources through other governing bodies in the US as well as programs used in other countries to put together something.
I have looked into the USA Gymnastics University, but the last time I looked the website was a little confusing and I wasn't exactly sure what was going on. It would be great if they could get that off the ground! I just hope that they make it affordable for those of us working in programs not especially dedicated to coach education who want to pursue that avenue independently.

I would guess the the problem with getting any kind of universal training/certification program for coaches off the ground would be where to start? Some of the questions I would wonder about...

Would astablished coaches be grandfathered in or would every coach have to go back & be certified for each level? Would these be mandatory or voluntary certifications? If it is made mandatory for coaches to be certified, who would pay any fees for training/testing? The gym they work for or the individual coach? And what would the time constraints be? How long would each coach be given until they had to obtain certification? Would they not be allowed to function as a coach until they obtained their certification? I agree that a universal certification program would add an identifiable level of professionalism to coaches. But as in all professions, there will be people who have all "right certifications" & still be bad at what they do. Or people without "titles" or certifications who are amazing at what they do. If USAG were to get heavy handed & demand certification by a certain date, I would imagine that would cause upheaval in the coaching community. So should they just suggest or "recommend" it? Unfortunately, then it would not be universal, because there will always be coaches who think "something like that is not needed for them...just for others". These are just a few of the road blocks I could foresee. I'm wondering how the all coaches here on CB would feel about being told the had to obtain some type of certification as coaches? Would you prefer it to be mandatory or voluntary? If voluntary & you were grandfathered in due experience would you take the classes or whatever & get "certified" anyway? Should it just be for "new" coaches? Just curious to get ideas from our CB coaches on such a program. What would you all see as the benefits/draw backs to a universal coaching certification program in the USA?

 

[triptwister]

Yip yip...HOORAY! Yip yip...HOOORAY! The difference between voluntary selfish self gratifying education and doing it on demand is that the latter equals professionalism granted on universal and expert agreed upon standards. The voluntary way of everyone for himself is self serving without universal acceptance and without universal agreed upon expert standards.

When I said "selfish" in a previous post, I was not talking about a coach that has selfish motives about coaching. I was talking about self selected professionalism that essentially means nothing. There are no standards to compare it to. If you boast enough then maybe what you did will impress a few people. But hey, show them your USAG Professional Card that you bought and your earned Safety Certification. That will get you out on any USAG floor your heart desires. And you can pretend to be the best living coach on the planet and no one has any standards to deny you with. Welcome to America.

I called on people to define an elite coach...now you know where I was coming from. We have no professionalism in our industry. Define recreational coach. Define tier program coach. Guess what? In this country if you do it then that's what you are. Everybody that has had a hand coaching a person that becomes elite thinks they are an elite coach because they had something to do with it. I tested this and sure enough people justified themselves in just that way. Everyone including parents control our sport. Its all a hodge podge helter skelter barn yard free for all. Just buy your professional card and pass a one day safety certification and you can call yourself an elite coach in America and open a gym called Elite World Gymnastics and run with it.

I have been making my point from day one and only now are some people catching on. America has a Cracker Jack mentality that says they can pull their degree out of a Cracker Jack Box. Like magic we pull our rabbit coaching qualifications out of a hat and start teaching kids to hop down the bunny trail.

I've been hearing people talk about a USA Gymnastics University but it does not seem to exist. And people say I'm nuts.

 

[Linsul]

Trip, you seem to be trippin. I don't have a problem with certification as a coach. However as others have stated a piece of paper does not make someone a professional or even good at their job 100% of the time. As a method of reliable quality control it's weak and single faceted. Lots of people would do it, though I don't see why you care since the current papers are just a method to make 'all fake coaches feel real'. Are you going to start railing on personality tests and counseling requirements and personal profiling next? It just doesn't seem to have an end. Coaches are never going to be clones.

Telling coaches to hang their heads low and be ashamed is in every other post of yours. I don't get it. You make pointed judgments at coaches in general about their motives for the job, and bring up random 'trip facts' like 'anyone whose ever coached an elite thinks they're an elite coach.' or 'anyone who isn't an elite coach is a wannabe'. Can't or won't qualify such blanket statements. Hey it's the internet, just throw it out there and see who bites like everyone else since August 6th 1991. Then it's 'why won't anybody listen to meeeeeeeeeeee?' Well, you are being listened to, because this is a forum. Discussion and consideration is what you get here, not sports revolution.

Start a site devoted to your proposed changes and post links to the changes you're suggesting for action. Lead the rally in a meaningful way rather than blogging at a group of people from relative anonymity.

 

[bogwoppit]

Trip you are obsessed with this Elite coach BS, it drives me crazy. Will ya give it up???

If you don't give it up I may have to enforce any one of your 9 bans.

Even in Canada coaches are called coaches, even with the certificate in their hands that says NCCP 4.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i'm just not getting it i guess. we've done just about everything you can do in our sport with the exception of an olympic team member. and with boys and girls both. we still don't consider ourselves elite coaches. we consider ourselves gymnastics coaches. and we are not devoid of some sort of satisfactory ego either.

sorry trip...i'm just not getting it.

 

[Linsul]

On a more level headed note: I love this board, truly I do. I feel a sense of earnestness, authenticity, and honest support from people of every member group. It makes me comfortable enough to gripe about bad days, share the dumb stories from waaaaaaaay back when I was a gymnast, and participate in things like the Chalkbucket Challenge.

As it relates to my member group, I feel like all the green titled people are indeed livin the coaching life. It may be my 'giant coaching ego' identifying with peers, but when they post most of the time I find myself nodding along and/or seeing something from a different perspective. There's nobody at my gym I haven't sat down and had a drink with, and I would do so with any coach here. If ever I felt the need to cut them down professionally as a group (hypothetical here, I have never had that urge) merely reminding myself that we are trusted with the very kids the parent group care so much for would be enough to stop me.

We obviously need criticism and benefit from it. My issue is not with that at all. The core of my last post is that I just don't get the peer feeling from Trip. Or any other gym related one, just an overwhelming urge to stir the pot. I've been known to post in favor of coaches when things get heated, so I want to clear that up. Critique away, it makes us better.

 

[triptwister]

Bottom line is that America can benefit from establishing a professional culture in gymnastics. A professional title that you can buy and safety certification that you can get in one day is not enough.

Or is it?

It seems that if we have been getting along without professionalism then maybe the thinking is that we don't need it.

Or have we been getting along without it? Maybe things are just as I say, a barn yard frenzy.

Here's what I want...someone to take responsibility. Someone who is willing to say that if a person goes through a certain process then they are hereby officially competent. And if that person proves not to be so then there is someone there to own up to.

A professional culture breeds teaching more sensitive to a student's needs. More responsive to a student's needs.

Here's what I want...Professionlism that encourages accountability among gymnastics programs and clubs or schools. We need management and budget reforms, we need planning and evaluation procedures that identify levels of competency, we need national assessment standards that regulate and grade coaches.

Were we to establish a professional culture then we need a mission statement that favors the student's progress over whether a gym needs to make a buck.

A gymnastics club or school or program should require strong qualified leadership. The administration as a whole should enforce a pre-formatted organizational design. The head coach and/or director/owner of the program should be proficient and exemplary, capable of articulating a vision and enlisting teachers, parents, and students in the effort to reach those aims and expectations. Teaching should be monitored and evaluated according to established terms, conditions, and standards set by professional institutions.

The teaching of gymnasts should be a collaborative venture between ruling institutions and private interests.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

put that way, i agree that we could do more to improve upon what you have listed.

 

[lilgymmie7]

Be careful what you wish for Triptwister. Having guidelines and regulations is one thing, having a political monster breathing over your shoulder is yet another.
As a teacher, I remember being able to close my door and REALLY teach. Now, with all sorts of high stakes testing that same teaching has been nearly sucked dry! When I think who has the most to loose, I always see my students in that position. We need to think of them. Does your idea really put them first? It is just a thought that needs to be made 110% clearly with the gymnasts/students in the forefront. Not to pad the egos of the adults involved.
I am very happy with my DD's coaches and gym!

 

[triptwister]

I appreciate your point of view, lilgymmie7. Thank you.
Does our system and lack of professionalism check and balance itself?
What we have here is a hodge podge of programs that differ from each other in fundamental ways. For example: A gym designed to capitalize on recreational gymnastics in order to produce the greatest amount of revenue and the teams serve as a token stamp of credential is very different from the gym where the entire program is designed around a team mindset that leads to the Olympics.

Programs need to be assessed and identified for what they are. The coaches need to be assessed and graded for what they are. According to professional standards, a parent in advance should know what to expect and what they will get from any one specific program or school/gym.

As it is, you need to do your homework before you decide what a particular gym is about. Even then, things may not be what they seem. Our industry lacks transparency. Things are easily hidden. I say, lets bring it all out and put it on the table so everyone can see it. I would not be amiss in guessing that you lilgymmie7, simply got lucky. But that's not the way it should be.

 

[Linsul]

I appreciate your point of view, lilgymmie7. Thank you.
Does our system and lack of professionalism check and balance itself?
What we have here is a hodge podge of programs that differ from each other in fundamental ways. For example: A gym designed to capitalize on recreational gymnastics in order to produce the greatest amount of revenue and the teams serve as a token stamp of credential is very different from the gym where the entire program is designed around a team mindset that leads to the Olympics.

Programs need to be assessed and identified for what they are. The coaches need to be assessed and graded for what they are. According to professional standards, a parent in advance should know what to expect and what they will get from any one specific program or school/gym.

As it is, you need to do your homework before you decide what a particular gym is about. Even then, things may not be what they seem. Our industry lacks transparency. Things are easily hidden. I say, lets bring it all out and put it on the table so everyone can see it. I would not be amiss in guessing that you lilgymmie7, simply got lucky. But that's not the way it should be.

Between this and the elite-centric posting, I've figured out what is rubbing me the wrong way and why I don't understand you 80% of the time.

This agenda and whats supporting it are simply outdated. Gyms DO advertise what they are. The internet and boundless communication of today has allowed us to congregate and talk like never before, so even if a gym was misrepresenting, it would be found out quick. Parents don't walk into a gym blind anymore. They are savvy customers that talk to each other and can check city business ratings for other reviews by customers. Youtube videos, check team scores, and post to each other on sites like this before even setting foot into the gym in question. Gymnasts communicate like never before, athletes have blogs, their own youtube channels, fansites, official sites, and posting opportunities where a screen name empowers them to tell it exactly how it is. Gyms do the same, you simply can't be a mystery if you have a website blaring what you're about and a legion of customers who agree or disagree publicly. A reputation isn't a local thing anymore, it went global awhile ago.

Coaching has evolved by this as well. We all talk. We all can find answers to what we're looking for not just from our HC, but a google search. Need 500 drills for a hollow body? Done. Can't figure out how to get a group of preschoolers to settle down and don't want to advertise it to your boss? Post in the coaching forum, take a pick from a gazillion good methods. Get your certs, heck, you can even download another countries cert process and see how you stack up. Curious as to what the public thinks about you? Google your name. I did that at work with some coworkers, and it was the rec coaches names that came up on business review sites. Yeah, the 'wannabes' whose care and professionalism are advertising in itself now.

Elite coaches don't hang out in a members only club in their gyms or on the internet. There is no elite-centric train of thought anymore. They aren't mouthpieces for athletes that are wallflowers, or forbidding angry types who exist to glare at the rec kids. Things have evolved to a point where business and sport are equally important at MANY fantastic gyms. You can see it in beautiful rec & team equipment in gyms, consistent staff, and team athletes pitching in to help that preschooler navigate the gym to their mom or find the bathroom. They show up to the staff meetings like everyone else when possible, are required to be at open house and other gym events like anyone else, and have their hands in every stage of athlete development. They actively seek out the rec coaches to tell them what to keep an eye open for in an athlete, or to ask if they've seen any hopefuls in the rec program.

In short, you can't hide what you are anymore. You can get a piece of paper that says you are something, sure. I don't think you can take decades of experience and put it all on a nifty test in any meaningful way though. I also think gyms who haven't caught up to today are obvious and easily avoided. Either by the staff, facility, or preceding reputation. It's already on the table, everyone can see it.

 

[bogwoppit]

Nicely said Linsul.

 

[triptwister]

Thank you Linsul for your comments. I was waiting for that affirmation. Its all talk. Another one of my points has officially been confirmed.

This is why we have no professionalism. Because of this type of rationalization. If this keeps up, things will stay just the way they are just as dunno wisely pointed out.

Its all hype, talk, boasting, heresay, rumors, opinions, back biting, and cheerleading. The better we appear in this arena, the more professional we pretend we are.

 

[bogwoppit]

Who is this "WE' you talk of Trip?

 

[Linsul]

Thank you Linsul for your comments. I was waiting for that affirmation. Its all talk. Another one of my points has officially been confirmed.

This is why we have no professionalism. Because of this type of rationalization. If this keeps up, things will stay just the way they are just as dunno wisely pointed out.

Its all hype, talk, boasting, heresay, rumors, opinions, back biting, and cheerleading. The better we appear in this arena, the more professional we pretend we are.

So the opinions, feelings, and experience of all in question amount to nothing. If transparency for the sake of clarity in every facet is worthless to you; then you seek to exert control merely for the sake of control and not for the betterment of the sport. Thanks for proving you're about an agenda.

Like the sport itself, coaching is an art as much as it is a science. Paper satisfies one aspect, not the other. The ability to relate to people and effectively communicate is not best judged by a lucky guess on a scantron. Or a test administered by one person who decides if you're good at people skills or not. Options are a must, one coach may work better with some people than others. That's ok because there should be an option for everyone who wants to try gymnastics. Setting a single standard in an arena where creativity and problem solving are a huge part of the job serves to stifle, not enhance.

Where people's kids are involved, experience trumps paper every time. As a parent, I'd prefer a coach whose spotted DD"s level for years over someone who filled in the right bubble by chance. Experience of staff, parents, and athletes will never be thrown aside. To suggest that it could or should be is fallacy. The sport evolves, we all evolve with it and watch gyms that can't cope go under, and coaches who refuse to adapt quit. Accept it or get out of the way.

Edit* You don't make a sport better by penalizing, punishing, or reducing the options available to the people who make it's world go around. They are entitled to find where they feel they belong. No organization can tell individuals how they feel about where they work, where they train, or force a payment from a unsatisfied parent and hope to survive.

 

[coachmolly]

Many, if not most, parents that sign their kid up for gymnastics know absolutely nothing about the sport. So these parents are not going to know the difference between a "USAG Professional Member" and a "USAG Elite Certified Coach" (or whatever the highest level coaching certification would be called), it's all the same to them. So even with levels of coach education in place, there are still going to be deceptive coaches/gym owners who make themselves look better than they actually are to parents. No amount of coaching education is likely to change the moral character of those individuals. So whatever system is in place, there are going to be individuals who manipulate it for their own benefit. I'm not so sure that is ever going to change which is incredibly unfortunate and I am so bothered when I hear stories of such coaches. They are all too common in our sport.