Parents Balking on skills

[emorymom]

That is some serious growth to deal with!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

But the op asked specifically how do you know with %100 certainty that its vestibular? Without ever having met that gymnast, what are the clues in what she has written would allow you to determine vestibular with such conviction?

gymnasts balk all the time. something doesn't "feel" right (vestibular) and they don't go for it or kill the skill mid stream.

continuous and consistent balking IS vestibular.

and i'm so tired of hearing that there is something wrong with these kids, or they're weak or mentally not tough enough, or they are chicken*****, etc; so tired of hearing it...

 

[Seeker]

gymnasts balk all the time. something doesn't "feel" right (vestibular) and they don't go for it or kill the skill mid stream.

continuous and consistent balking IS vestibular.

and i'm so tired of hearing that there is something wrong with these kids, or they're weak or mentally not tough enough, or they are chicken*****, etc; so tired of hearing it...

I think that's the biggest takeaway I have from being on this site....that not all coaches are created equal. That is obviously a given, but the gap and/or "divide" between some of the great coaches that participate here and some that we have encountered in the gym is vast. Some of the "coaches" (that we have since left behind should seek glory in another field, preferably not one dealing with children.

 

[B.Gold]

gymnasts balk all the time. something doesn't "feel" right (vestibular) and they don't go for it or kill the skill mid stream.

continuous and consistent balking IS vestibular.

and i'm so tired of hearing that there is something wrong with these kids, or they're weak or mentally not tough enough, or they are chicken*****, etc; so tired of hearing it...

When is it relevant to discuss fearlessness/fear; mental strength/weakness regarding a gymnast? Or, in your opinion, do the gymnasts that succeed to L9\L10 just have a more mature or higher functioning vestibular system than those that don't?

I've always been told by my DDs coaches that the difference between a L9 and L10 gymnast is their mental strength. I have never heard our coaches discuss vestibular before. But they sure do discuss mental strength and fearlessness A LOT. And I tend to believe my DD is coached by a really great group of compassionate, knowledgeable coaches. Are they wrong?

 

[Deleted member 10727]

These are great questions. My son says specifically abut balking that he is "not scared, but it doesn't feel right". I believe him as he is a kid who scales cliffs before I can stop him, so it can't be fear of heights or falling. I think it's more of a perfectionist thing, plus I don't know what... Maybe fear of failing, maybe something else plus this vestibular thing?

 

[profmom]

The "doesn't feel right" and "can't go" sound like hallmarks of vestibular to me. DD is wrapping up two years of it.

 

[Orangesoda]

I'll say it. Might the "vestibular" issues have something to do with the pure biology of self-preservation? At some point it becomes unwise for a human to throw themselves around/hurl themselves twisting through the air in such a fashion. I'm just throwing stuff out there for the sake of discussion. Maybe the brain just says "no" sometimes.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

When is it relevant to discuss fearlessness/fear; mental strength/weakness regarding a gymnast? Or, in your opinion, do the gymnasts that succeed to L9\L10 just have a more mature or higher functioning vestibular system than those that don't?

I've always been told by my DDs coaches that the difference between a L9 and L10 gymnast is their mental strength. I have never heard our coaches discuss vestibular before. But they sure do discuss mental strength and fearlessness A LOT. And I tend to believe my DD is coached by a really great group of compassionate, knowledgeable coaches. Are they wrong?

no, they would be wrong if they denied that vestibular has anything to do with high level gymnastics. yes, i would agree that kids that succeed at 9/10 have a more mature vestibular system.

and mental strength is simply a misnomer. i have known athletes that couldn't back tumble or Yurchenkos for weeks on end yet they do double backs off beam, double lays off bars, triples off high bar, etc;

what would they say then? "oh, they can only turn on their mental strength when they feel like it" or "they turn it on when they're not lazy" or...get my drift?

finally, "fearlessness" IS a direct result of a mature and healthy vestibular system.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

My son informed me he was able to do a very clean RO BHS BT on floor tonight. Not a BHSBHS BT, but he felt very good about how it went and his coach said it looked "right". So I think I am beginning to agree on this vestibular issue.

So why do some kids never seem to have these issues and others struggle with them?

 

[profmom]

We have 9s and 10s who've been through this. I think the difference isn't so much mental toughness or anything like that. It's more the sheer cussedness and stubbornness not to walk out of the gym for good after a few months or more of intense frustration. It seems to help if a few events are going very well while the backwards issue is looming. For DD, the big difference was that while she was struggling terribly on beam and couldn't do Yurchenkos, she picked up twisting readily on floor and got the feeling of progress she needed there.

 

[B.Gold]

We have 9s and 10s who've been through this. I think the difference isn't so much mental toughness or anything like that. It's more the sheer cussedness and stubbornness not to walk out of the gym for good after a few months or more of intense frustration. It seems to help if a few events are going very well while the backwards issue is looming. For DD, the big difference was that while she was struggling terribly on beam and couldn't do Yurchenkos, she picked up twisting readily on floor and got the feeling of progress she needed there.

I'm assuming she made breakthroughs on her vault and beam to progress forward? If so, which event progressed before the other? Is she a L9\10?

 

[profmom]

No, no! She's just a L8. But what happened for her was that the vault coach took her all the way back to square one. Then she was off tumbling most of the summer with a nagging ankle injury and once she was tumbling again in the early fall, she worked back up to timers pretty quickly and then started flipping in late September or so. Beam was a terrible struggle but again, in the fall, she continued to work the BWO-BHS on the low beam and the beam with the pad -- went to every single open gym and did two beam rotations to push forward on it. Finally, she got her acro I think around late October. The beam thing was slightly more than two years.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

My son is back to balking. His first competition was last weekend, and he could not even do a ROBHS. It was super painful to watch, because I saw in his body language the disappointment he felt at the moment he didn't make it.
When he attempts a standing BHS, his legs are weirdly froggy now, which is completely odd. He has always had exceptional form for his age.

Also, it was mentioned here about being fearless with other skills. He is also unable to do a Flyaway off hibar. He forces it and ends up on his back on the mat. Every single time. My husband is insistent this is a mental thing (but very supportive, saying he needs only positive talk and that he needs time). I feel so bad for my little gymnast. He is no longer the happy guy he once was, bouncing around, and super excited about gym and really life in general. He even seems to be anxious.

Other events he is fine with. Vaulting over the table with a simple front HS (?) isn't easy for him, but there is no balking. Hibar and floor are his balking events.

 

[profmom]

Hey, @dunno ! Based on some other things about GymBoyzMom's son, do you know if there's a possibility that some vestibular issues could be caused by undiagnosed vision problems, like maybe a subclinical amblyopia? If so -- is it conceivable that vision therapy could make a real difference for some kids??

 

[sportsmommy]

I am curious now. My dd wouldnt land her cw on beam at the gym. It was almost like she turned her body to land on the floor beside it. She never missed one at meets. When the coach would aak her what the problem was she would say she didnt know. She said she wasnt afraid. I always thought it was mental.

 

[homer]

Hi Gymboyzmum Im sorry you and your son are going through this at the moment and I dont have any real advice except to say that my son is very similar! I cant remember how old your son is but I think he is younger than mine, my son is just 10 and is approximately your level 6 (we are in the UK).
We have had this over and over since he started at 5. We had it with ROBHS, giants with gloves and loops, giants on chalk bar, handstands on p bars etc etc... He takes a while to get them and then he has them, sigh of relief..... and then he cant or wont do them again!

Its not the missing skills that bother me its that it seems to take over everything and he becomes anxious and not very happy for a time. Its hard to watch. All i can say is that if you have a good caring coach who has seen it all they should be able to reassure him that it is normal, and it will pass. I do try to remind him of the times he wouldn't do handstands on p bars or giants....in an effort to make him see how far he has come, but otherwise I try to stay out of it, and wait for it to pass!!

Good luck.....we are struggling with the flyaway at the moment so I feel your pain!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Hey, @dunno ! Based on some other things about GymBoyzMom's son, do you know if there's a possibility that some vestibular issues could be caused by undiagnosed vision problems, like maybe a subclinical amblyopia? If so -- is it conceivable that vision therapy could make a real difference for some kids??

yes!

 

[profmom]

It's not my sandbox, but if it hasn't been done yet, someone should do a study with a treatment and control group and see if diagnosis and therapy can make any significant inroads in cutting down the time it takes for kids to work through these issues. If so, this could make a huge difference for the perhaps thousands of gymnasts who experience these blocks for more than a few weeks at a time over the course of their careers.

Imagine a world where, after observing a week of balking, a coach sends a kid to a pediatric ophthalmologist with instructions to treat any issues aggressively instead of deciding that s/he is a head case.

 

[JBS]

gymnasts balk all the time. something doesn't "feel" right (vestibular) and they don't go for it or kill the skill mid stream.

continuous and consistent balking IS vestibular.

and i'm so tired of hearing that there is something wrong with these kids, or they're weak or mentally not tough enough, or they are chicken*****, etc; so tired of hearing it...

@dunno

Not really sure I agree with this fully. I agree that it can be vestibular that triggers it...but they may need some mental toughness training to get out of it.

My own personal balking on flyaways was from hitting the rail 3 times because my training and progressions were not sound. It was definitely a fear thing...nothing vestibular about it.

I have a kid that just stopped tumbling 3 weeks ago...she can do triple fulls...double backs...front double fulls...cody fulls...etc on trampoline...but she will not do a back handspring right now. Seems like the vestibular system would go crazy in some other skills also.

I believe that the vestibular system can have much to do with this...but I believe in the mind and mental toughness also.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

backwards problems (vestibular) begin with the back handspring. some of the other skills you mention become "twistie" problems and again come from the vestibular system.

in all my years, i have never known anyone come out of the problem by way of mental toughness. they have all been once their vestibular systems matured. and most around 16 years of age.

i hit the pipe also....a few times. i have posted before that it was my generation that invented the Kovacs. Kovacs learned his moniker the same way. too many bad double flyaways where we wouldn't let go. until it was too late.