Parents Balking on skills

[JBS]

in all my years, i have never known anyone come out of the problem by way of mental toughness. they have all been once their vestibular systems matured. and most around 16 years of age.

I guess the mental toughness is not what I am hoping will bring them out of it...it is what I am looking to buy time with. Teenage girls seem to be too negative...so once the vestibular system goes wacky...they get too negative and give up too quickly. I am hoping the mental toughness will give them the ability to stay positive and fight longer...until it comes back.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

that i agree with ^^^mental toughness=staying power.

 

[JBS]

@dunno

How many boys vs girls do you see this happening too? What age for both? How many leave the sport due to this?

 

[JBS]

Here is a fun read...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...qc&s=c9c91e9439ccbcafc45b48e4584a837599c204ae

 

[profmom]

Link not working -- can you give us something to google?

 

[JBS]

Here is a link...

https://usagym.org/pages/education/regionalcongressspeaker/bio/topics/pidcoe.pdf

Who's lecture is this?

Got it...

https://usagym.org/pages/education/regionalcongressspeaker/bio/pidcoe.html

 

[profmom]

This guy needs to do my study!!!!

 

[JBS]

Here is a fun read...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...qc&s=c9c91e9439ccbcafc45b48e4584a837599c204ae

Link seems to be working fine for me...I have attached it below.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

The optometrist told me my son has something going on with far sightedness which he said would correct itself without any treatment. I forget exactly what he called it, but he gave my son 1-2 years till it improved. I believe that was just over a year ago. I didn't think much of it at the time, but strangely that was about the time he started balking on BHS he had been doing with ease. I don't know if it's related at all, but my guess would be yes. I took him to get his eyes checked because I noticed him squinting at the TV. Lately, I noticed he is squinting even more than usual. Maybe I will take him to another place to have his eyes checked, for a second opinion.

 

[profmom]

Fascinating stuff. One very minor takeaway for me is that USAG is smart to keep boys capped on progression if most of them don't have the same level of vestibular maturity at age 10-11 as girls. So around the age that the fastest moving girls are working on advanced twisting, the fastest moving boys would not be doing much twisting in their routines aside from the full bonus on L7 floor. And no Yurchenkos for boys until what, L9? So age 13?

 

[Seeker]

The optometrist told me my son has something going on with far sightedness which he said would correct itself without any treatment. I forget exactly what he called it, but he gave my son 1-2 years till it improved. I believe that was just over a year ago. I didn't think much of it at the time, but strangely that was about the time he started balking on BHS he had been doing with ease. I don't know if it's related at all, but my guess would be yes. I took him to get his eyes checked because I noticed him squinting at the TV. Lately, I noticed he is squinting even more than usual. Maybe I will take him to another place to have his eyes checked, for a second opinion.

Totally agree you should seek a second opinion. My daughter is pretty nearsighted and one doctor said she didn't need glasses, but within just a few months she needed them badly. It progressed quickly. She wears contacts now.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I firmly believe that not all balking is related to vestibular issues,,,, period. I have seen balking spread from event to event, even resulting in a child running down the runway and not able to do a front handspring (sorry, that is mental).... What may start as a vestibular issue can very easily result into a full blown anxiety of self doubt, self pressure and fear of letting everyone down(external pressure) resulting in more anxiety. Any parent will tell you that they can SEE a difference in their child face and how they act at home (pure emotion of self doubt, failure and thinking something is seriously wrong, this is MENTAL) I have also seen a direct connection between excessive pressure and balking, including moving a kid too fast, high pressured coaching, and most certainly high pressured parents (that is a biggie). However, regardless on whether we all agree on the cause, ultimately the treatment is the same,,, back off and time... I think that telling a child that they are going through vestibular issues may actually help the child, because it pulls the pressure of them and puts a longer timeline on healing. But on the other hand, just labeling the whole situation as vestibular is counter productive if you don't remove the infection. Reason being, if you just label something then you are not going to make the necessary changes in the gym or home to help to remedy the situation. (cause and effect). You have to treat this as an injury and REMOVE everything that could potentially cause more anxiety. If you don't treat the mental aspect you are spinning your wheels....
Splint it, remove the danger, let it heal, rehab,,,, and don't come back too soon or you will injure it again....
Thats my 2 cents...

 

[profmom]

My hypothesis is that some subset of vestibular issues are caused by undiagnosed vision issues of the nature that would typically resolve gradually as the child matures and reorganizes the processing of visual information. If I'm right about this, this subset might be resolved more quickly with aggressive vision therapy consisting of eye exercises to speed up the process of teaching the brain how to interpret visual cues correctly.

 

[JBS]

Thats my 2 cents...

That's at least 5 cents...and worth every penny. That is one of the best things that I have read in a long time.

Right now our club is definitely transitioning into a much more intense machine. With that intensity we need more tools...tools to help the athletes deal with and learn to release the stress.

At the same time...our program needs to allow them to use these new tools...our program needs to have the environment for success. After all...switching from a hammer to a nail gun doesn't help if you're working in a tornado or a lightning storm.

Mental toughness is our new event...we have hired Doc Ali to help our team develop new skills (tools) within that event.

Clear and unbending mobility standards are going to calm the storm at our club. Many wonder why the "big clubs" have level 4's that can do giants and level 7's that can do blinds and front giants? It's simply to eliminate the stress of competition to allow further skill development. If you are competing at 75-80% of your ability...you are in a good spot.

We are adjusting our sails and sailing out of the storm!

 

[JBS]

My hypothesis is that some subset of vestibular issues are caused by undiagnosed vision issues of the nature that would typically resolve gradually as the child matures and reorganizes the processing of visual information. If I'm right about this, this subset might be resolved more quickly with aggressive vision therapy consisting of eye exercises to speed up the process of teaching the brain how to interpret visual cues correctly.

Tell us more...what type of eye exercises would an athlete do?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Ali is great!

 

[gwenmom]

My hypothesis is that some subset of vestibular issues are caused by undiagnosed vision issues of the nature that would typically resolve gradually as the child matures and reorganizes the processing of visual information. If I'm right about this, this subset might be resolved more quickly with aggressive vision therapy consisting of eye exercises to speed up the process of teaching the brain how to interpret visual cues correctly.

I can agree with this. DD had horrible eyesight. Had eye surgery to correct the lazy eye that resulted from the horrible eyesight. We did patching, glasses and now contacts. Competed her first year a old Level 3 still having double vision most of the time, don't ask me how she did it. Probably in shear guys alone. Took her a very long time to get her BHS because of the vision problems and worrying about her glasses coming off. Got her contacts for gymnastics and 20 minutes into the first practice after getting them the BHS was achieved. She said she could see her hands and see the floor.

Kids don't know their eyesight isn't normal. If DD eye hadn't started going lazy at the age of 3, we might not of have taken her to the eye doctor until she started school at 5.

Here is DD going without glasses because they didn't allow them taking literally a blind leap of faith to grab the trapeze in the trapeze class we took together. At some point, probably about the time these issues show up, the brain takes over and the fearlessness isn't quite as easy to achieve. Not sure, two years later, she would do this because she understand the consequences if she misses.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

@dunno

How many boys vs girls do you see this happening too? What age for both? How many leave the sport due to this?

more girls than boys and everyone that i have spoken to has no reason why.

 

[gracyomalley]

Just a mom's opinion, but with both boys and a girl in the sport, the intensity of both is very different - at least up to L7/L8 which is all I have personal experience parenting. My boys joke with team mates about how they are going to "epically fail" on various events (which this year with injuries and team moves they might!) - my DD and her friends cry together....

I love this thread. I don't think ALL balking comes form vestibular issues, but I see a big difference in the kids who land funny on a fly away and are scared of THAT skill for a bit, versus the kids, usually at 10-12, who suddenly "feel off" on skills they have mastered previously, usually backwards skills, and then (unfortunately often) may have this issue become magnified by pressure from coaches and parents, personally high expectations, etc. Girls are just more likely to "read way too much into" this....my youngest boy has a fear of heights. It gets in the way off and on. But only with "high" things. My DD has never been afraid of getting hurt, but when vestibular stuff hit she cascaded through feeling like a failure, spending 12 months crying on beam for hours a practice to "not let that skill defeat her", etc. I know her old coach meant well - truely believed in mental toughness as the answer. DD is, we now know, mentally tough...she hasn't quit.

And she hit puberty early for a gymnast (normal for average kid) so I'm hoping her vestibular system will mature "early" too?! She's got a coach now who may not be Dunno, but who believes in gymnastics being a positive thing for all kids - and isn't in a rush to get them from "point A to point B". Has DD working a variety of skills 1-2 levels "above" her while waiting for her to be ready to back tumble on beam confidently again. I can't tell anymore which of her "hang ups" are purely vestibular and which are tied up in needing to come back from feeling like a failure...no idea why she's thrilled to work BT and FT on beam, release moves on bars, etc but still not ready to do some other "easier" skills...but I don't think its fear - I THINK it has to do with her vestibular system - this makes sense medically and fits her personality more.

Her old coach was ready for her to quit and volunteer with the pre-team kids. At 11. As a successful, winning L7 with lots of L8 skills along with several large holes in her skills. Giving her the time to grow, find out if she likes gym still, and also seeing that her new coach believes she will get past this and doesn't see it as the end of her gymnastics career - allowing her to correct the skills that needed correcting from the old gym while progressing in the areas she excels, and me keeping my big mouth shut until she brings things up....these things seem to be helping a bunch - she's much happier, and now her natural "mental toughness" is getting her to chip away at the things she struggled with.

I don't know about the OPs son - he's young and may not be "cut out" to do this long term. Not all kids are - but I don't think balking on skills is really what shows that - I think its more about coming to gym, sticking it out in successful years and down years, working hard when there, trying to problem solve and take corrections, and loving doing gymnastics. I'm certain it is a whole different degree of things in the elite track, but I would say still the same concepts would apply.

If at all possible, if the kid likes doing gym and always has, then parents at least need to let it go....Of course we care and hate to see our kids struggle - but in the end this is about learning to work through challenges/find solutions and have patience - skills they need in life as well as gym!

Lastly, good luck to the OPs son - my boys compete this weekend - we're focusing more about the success of being out there at all - and the after meet dinner with friends and family, than whether they have to leave out a skill, fall umpteen times, etc. I hope that if they do "epically fail" (which in my opinion they can't), I hope they laugh about it afterwards with their team!

 

[Deleted member 10727]

I think that is what happened - my son would just chuck skills without being truly aware that they could be "dangerous", even with vision issues. Then once he became aware, that's when the balking started. The problem is that the balking is more dangerous than not chucking the skill!