WAG bars - strength or technique

[katlinchen]

I was wondering how much of bar work is strength and how much is technique?

I guess back hip circles, front hip circles and kips are definitely technique skills, although you need some strength for glide kips.
Giants are also a technique thing I guess. And dismounts of course.

But what about the harder skills? Like cast handstands, free hips to handstands, stalders, toe shoots?

 

[Aussie_coach]

It is both, without the strength the skills will not work, but also without the technique the skills will not work.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Uneven bars has the magic three:
(1) strength
(2) technique
(3) timing

Skills involve different ratios of each.

SBG

 

[gym.new.bee]

SBG, hi! Can you please elaborate on the straddle cast to handstand, and which ratios of which above mentioned elements would be most influential on success? Thank you! Ex. If there is a moment when the gymnast holds the straddle (wide one) but is unable to close to handstand and back, which one of the three do you think it would be most dependent on?

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Gym-n-b; I am not sure how to answer as the Cast to HS involves a ratio of the "three" that changes thru the skill.

Imagine you are at the beginning of the cast (feet in front of the Bar, chest down, wrists shifted back (weight on base of palm and heel of hand), lower back round and very tight abs). In this example, a small moment in time, it is nearly impossible to separate all three. The timing of the leg drive (shape change) has to be in sync with the strength and push against the bar, the technique of shape change and shoulder location during the dynamic movement is constantly in play.

The tools to affect change: As a coach, I can attack the strength during conditioning, side stations during other events and then at UB's with drills or spotting thru whole skill. I can work the timing via drills and spotting. I can work the technique with different drills/stations or by spotting. Since execution of the skill, when learning, changes frequently I like to master a few drills/stations/spotting stations so I can better measure consistency and the efficacy of my coaching and athlete learning. I am not being purposely obtuse, by not listing specific drills/stations, as their are many and situations need different set-ups/emphasise.

Pointers towards success: As many other coaches have posted on other threads, being able to preform a straddle press HS repeat (more than 1 in a row) is a good indicator of strength, technique and to a smaller degree timing. Conditioning with excellent technique should be every athletes/coaches goal. Now to this conditioning exercise -it can get more complicated - what if strength is not enough to perform a small part of the press HS? Break-down even smaller. Check with your coach as they have other breakdowns that can focus on strength/technique for that small part of the press. Baby steps... life as an everyday coach/gymnast is an exercise in patience, effort and optimism.

How to help as a parent: Check with DD's coach.

Best, SBG -

 

[Gymsanity]

'Technique is for the weak!'
What the other coaches said is correct, but you give me a strong powerful gymnast and suddenly that technique doesn't seem so important.

 

[katlinchen]

'Technique is for the weak!'
What the other coaches said is correct, but you give me a strong powerful gymnast and suddenly that technique doesn't seem so important.

That's what I heard at my gym some weeks ago!

Of course, there is always a little bit of timing involved and I guess especially release moves require a lot of reps and technique.

But a coach in my gym said that if you are really strong in a gymnast way, "simple" moves like kips, cast handstands, giants and free hips arent that hard. But if you are weak, your technique must be great.

Of course you will still need some training, but it will take you less time than a weaker person...!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

good technique also provides conservation of energy.

 

[htimcj]

Should the press handstands into a straddle start from sitting or standing/leaning on a block?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

sitting

 

[htimcj]

^^^ Thanks. DD has a really hard time from sitting because she has the LONGEST legs! She has a hard time getting them out of the way

 

[Granny Smith]

I feel that you can sit and watch routine after routine after routine (all different girls, let's say a L10) and everyone gets through their routines. You will easily notice that there are girls who are fighting through their entire routine and then there are girls who just flow with ease through their entire routine. I can only assume that the flow-y girls are the technique girls (not saying a strong girl can't have technique, guess it would be a blessing to have both). I guess my point is that a strong girl who lacks technique can get through a routine, but a girl who has technique will always stand above the ones who lack. I guess that is why bars is it's own animal in the sport because you just can't be strong and power through it and come out on top (at least not at the big meets).

 

[gymdog]

good technique also provides conservation of energy.

+1

Both are extremely necessary if you want to be able to optimize a JO level 10 or NCAA routine. Correct technique allows better connections and minimizes force and strain on the body.

 

[gymdog]

Also you can say technique is for the weak because strong people can already do it or whatever (I'm not really sure), but I'd say it's more like the deviation from correct positioning (which us already a large part of technique for a basic skill like a cast) comes from lack of strength. So if you take a kid who can do 10 perfect stalders with great scapular and thoracic action, then show them a cast handstand, they're likely to appear more technically skilled than the out of shape coach (me) attempting the same thing so I guess I'd say they opposite really. I could do a cast handstand with bent arms and legs and my head out, and I'd do it that way precisely because I am weak. If I was stronger I would do it right.

 

[gym.new.bee]

Thanks for the info SBG I was just curious because of a comment made by DD.

 

[Faolmor]

There is a girl who I've seen compete here. I wouldn't say she's a power-house type gymnast - more lithe and lean, with very nice ability on floor, beam and vault. But on bars - wow. She just seems to float and flow through her routine. She really is lovely to watch on bars. Comparing her to the other girls - who are all nice on bars, btw - is still like chalk and cheese...she just stands out as a beautiful bar worker. I heard one of the coaches says she has brilliant ability to "hang." I took it to mean, to know how to "read" the bars, iywkim?

Can someone knowledgable elaborate on "hang" please?

 

[Frase]

I don't think it is as simple as putting a gymnasts in either a power or technique box (or those lucky ones who has both).

Dd is not a power gymnast she has "nothing in her legs" when vaulting and even now front somis are a hold your breath moment but I would say she has strength - she was the first to get her straddle lever to hand stand and happily will do a dozen in a row, same with her casts to hand stand whilst her strength in range and conditioning will frequently see her on the podium.

But regardless of what 'box' she fits in (and by the general opinion here it to appears be the wrong box as she is not a power gymnast) in my opinion as she moves further along the system it matters less. As their skill base grows so do the possibilities for their routines - certainly in the volunataries anyway.

On beam some of the girls are working on competing free cartwheels dd is working free walk over, her front somi step out is not powerful enough so she's doing r/o, whip, flick tuck and the handspring front somi for her is a handspring straight front.

So don't write-off the flexi artistic girl (technique is weak) as when they get it right it is beautiful to watch.

 

[Aero]

good technique also provides conservation of energy.

And on the flip side, when technique accidentally fails, strength is there to save you. This can be seen often in the women's events, but way more in MAG, especially on the support events. I've seen over-turned pirouettes on parallel bars that were fixed by muscling back into position, and don't even get me started on pommel horse.

I think it's very important to have both strength and technique.