Bhs

[hannahsmom]

This question is just for curiosity, not asking from the standpoint of wanting to fix it, but...yesterday I was at my dd's all day team camp and I noticed a lot of the little girls just getting their BHS (my dd included) were all doing them with bent arms. All the coaches were having to stress "straighten your arms." Is that a strength thing at that age or is it just that they don't realize the floor is coming that quickly. It was kind of cute to watch all of them doing it and the coaches getting exasperated having to tell most of them the same thing and I know some of those girls are pretty strong, so it just made me curious.

 

[ZJsMom]

It's not just strength, it's also technique. When the go straight up and come straight down it puts too much pressure on the arms. When they learn to stretch it out, it will be stronger and easier.

 

[coachmolly]

Bent arms are a pretty common problem when just learning bhs. It can be because the gymnast is going up more than back as the previous poster suggested, it could be because they aren't pushing through their toes enough. I'm not really sure how to describe it in words, but they are leaning/arching back before getting sufficient push off their feet. Does that make sense?

 

[gymdog]

If they throw their head back and bring their toes over too soon, they are not hitting an extended handstand with the shoulders open a little like this o( - the o is the head. From there they can block through to a hollow, allowing the handspring to work through a "shape change". If they contact with the feet in front then the shoulders close too which brings the head closer to the ground and also decreases how effectively they block through the shoulders (which are certainly stronger than elbows). If they don't use their shoulders they're going to collapse. So this is technical issue, a strength issue, and primarily a body awareness issue. From a coaching standpoint my recommendation to anyone would be - if you have to tell a kid more than once not to land on their head - go back. But most of the time they are not getting their arms up and hitting a correct extended position through the hips and shoulders. They did not master the previous progressions. And if you're guilty of my pet peeve of teaching BHS before the kid can do any kind of bridge kickover, for the love of gymnastics, stop it.

Although it's been fairly accepted that they need to "jump back" which is always true to some extent (don't want to undercut) there have been a bunch of good technical discussions lately on the fact that a higher vs longer BHS isn't always wrong...basically, they can flip to this handstand position fast, as long as the contact position is acceptable. And that this technique could even decrease injury by not encouraging such extreme contact angle and joint flexion. If you look at this discussion on Rick's blog it covers some of these issues with BHS technique (granted from a much more advanced tumbling standpoint) Gymnastics causes Achilles injury? — Gymnastics Coaching.com (but this is more about the snapdown). I know Mas Watanabe has also covered this technical issue of "flipping back tall and fast" in the first part in back handspring on the GymSmarts blog but I don't have the link offhand. If you just look at his section I'm sure you can find there fairly fast. http://gymsmartscommunity.com/maswatanabe/2009/03/15/back-handspring-technique/
Edited to add the link: this is a little long and maybe dry but I tried to write the basic gist above:

 

[CoachTodd]

Mostly it's technique. If everything is done correctly, very little pressure is put on the hands. Do it slightly incorrectly, 3 x your body weight is now on your hands.

 

[hannahsmom]

From a coaching standpoint my recommendation to anyone would be - if you have to tell a kid more than once not to land on their head - go back. But most of the time they are not getting their arms up and hitting a correct extended position through the hips and shoulders. They did not master the previous progressions. And if you're guilty of my pet peeve of teaching BHS before the kid can do any kind of bridge kickover, for the love of gymnastics, stop it.

Well, my dd has been doing this for about a month and they just keep doing the same thing...no change in approach. DD is getting frustrated, but she doesn't understand what to do differently. Maybe I'll see if the HC will work with her. Maybe a different view/approach and he'll be able to make some change. BTW, yes, she can do a bridge kickover. Thanks

 

[gymdog]

Well, my dd has been doing this for about a month and they just keep doing the same thing...no change in approach. DD is getting frustrated, but she doesn't understand what to do differently. Maybe I'll see if the HC will work with her. Maybe a different view/approach and he'll be able to make some change. BTW, yes, she can do a bridge kickover. Thanks

Sometimes I think people have a hard time coaching developmental skills because they either used to work with higher levels or they understand how a skill works themselves but can't really figure out, watching, what the mechanics are. The kickover problem is mostly not gymnastics programs but accelerated "learn a BHS" type classes...having worked in all star cheer, I've gotten to see a variety of um, BHS "technique." I work with classes and several competitive levels (preteam...a little at this point, mainly because of scheduling. Preteam is actually one of my favorite programs to teach though) and have no problem switching between either mode, but I know some people who absolutely won't do class (or even developmental) and it's prob a good call.

standing BHS is fairly hard, mostly need to use correct technique due to little momentum to "cover" incorrect technique. For this reason you sometimes see kids who can do RO BHS better than they can do standing BHS (I always, always teach standing BHS first, but that's a story for another day). But a lot of times when people can recognize that a kid is not pushing or "jumping back," what the specific problem really is that the arms are not going back or the knees are buckling (over the ankles). I tell kids to keep their head in, scoot the carpet/mat/etc "forwards", and pop their hips up to the ceiling (for some reason, this has worked well for me. I can't really say that's what *I* try to do when I do BHS, but whatever. Main issue is keeping the extended position without legs piking over too fast). I don't let kids continue to fall on their head, but that seems to be a fairly popular method of teaching this skill, I guess you can probably extrapolate my feelings on the technical merits of this approach.

When I was young and had just started gymnastics, we tried another gym that was more convenient schedule wise, also offered a competitive team and they immediately put me in their team program - training L5. Now I'll set the scene...I have the body type for gymnastics, pretty much solid muscle, but I hadn't really learned that much yet. They told me to try RO BHS. I had never really learned a BHS, much less a RO BHS, but somehow they got me to throw this skill, but i'd land on my head because I had no clue what I was doing. And the coach, who was nice enough as a person, would basically just laugh. And let me try again. I can remember it being awful and I told my mom I didn't want to go back. I can still remember. I sometimes have kids get frustrated that I won't let them "try by themselves." But I refuse to watch kids fall and fall - and offer no direction. Or worse, do something that is not safe. And I do not think RO back headspring is an appropriate thing to be watching kids do without intervening. After a week of this, my mom moved me back to a gym without competitve opportunities but with a fantastic coach that didn't allow any technical errors. Literally, you did not do gymnastics incorrectly in this environment. When I finally DID start competing, I remember being mind boggled seeing girls do skills on bars with BENT LEGS. I asked another girl, just out of sheer curiosity...how come they're bending their legs?!?! I had never seen this. She said, so they can make it...well how I learned gymnastics, that wasn't an option. You did it correctly - and with straight legs and pointed toes. Or you didn't do it. So yeah, I could have ended up doing L5 like 4 years earlier than I did, but I doubt I would have ever gotten as far in gymnastics. Also, I am not very flexible, but I have reasonable flexibility and lines due to this earlier former soviet bloc style training. Although I know some of the stretching is now controversial and I don't use it. And the coaches were awesome people. They basically took the style of training they grew up with, but were not willing to be so "hard" on kids personally (so they were not pushing competitive gymnastics).

 

[TheOne&OnlyGymnast]

Hey sorry but i dont understand what Bhs is or dd lol sorry if this sounds stupid hahaha well write back soon

 

[hannahsmom]

"Bhs" - Back handspring (for some reason, even though I capitalized all three letters, it changed it) and "dd" - daughter