Women cast handstand with vs. without kip

[mayalikesredapples]

I NEED to get my kip cast hand as soon as possible!

I have my press handstand from a sit. I can even do about 4 or 5 really nice ones in a row, I manage to do 7 but on the last 2 or 3 my arms are bent a little. I can also do a straddle planche of about 40° and may use that as a beam mount. So I am strong enough for straight body cast handstands.

I can straddle cast hand and straight body cast pretty well on low bar.

So, now here is the problem: THE KIP!
I can do a nice kip with straight arms. I can cast out of it to about horizontal. If my coach holds my feet in front of the bar, I can cast higher. But alone, it is soooo hard to get the timing right.

I know the only thing that will help is doing millions. And I will. Along with good drills.

However, how should I decide wether I should train the handstand out of the kip in straddle or straight?

Some people say if you can cast to handstand straight without the kip and can do several in a row, train straight for kip cast hand because it is technically easier.
Others say that it is A LOT harder to do straight out of the kip bc the kip and cast needs to be perfect.

What should I do? How do you decide?

 

[mayalikesredapples]

sorry, I need to add something - a coach at open gym told me I should do straight body casts for bar warm up for training purposes, like 5 sets of 5 everyday or so. butI should work the kip - straddle handstand because he says it is way easier to straddle out of a kip than do a straight body cast, even if you can straight body cast alone very well.... I am so confused!

 

[munchkin3]

I'm curious to hear the responses.....I think DD could do it ....and I have seen very weak girls with terrible form do it......I think it's a timing thing for my DD, and she does not know how to properly time it or sequence it???
She has a solid kip cast to above Hor, with straight arms. But when it comes time to train KCH, all of the sudden, the whole thing changes.....she gets all archy, and straddles in horizontal and pushes away.....she can't understand the concept of getting her toes on the bar, with your tush pointing up.
She can do a straight CH, but with bad form....she tries to get her toes up and arches all the way.
Time like you said......

What seems to help DD is doing the CH straddled, against a wall...then she has to be reminded to lean WAY over the bar. But the consensus at our gym is straddle....the coaches prefer this look.

Good luck! You WILL get it! You seem very determined!

 

[Canjump]

I have the same problem. I have my straddle cast to hand stand singular. If I put a kip in front of it I get to a stable hand stand shape but can't get my legs together or I push away from bar. With my feet together I can sometimes get them with no kip but not often. I have gotten 2 with a kip out of 1000000 I keep training both but I I'm not sure which I find easier

 

[rollergirl44]

i would think the kip would be the problem. if performed correctly the kip should make the cast easier in my opinion. try to be more patient with the glide swing, wait til your body is completely stretched and then be faster with the leg lift portion of the kip and that should provide more momentum, an earlier rise to front support and a better body position to begin the cast out of (similar to your coach holding your feet in front). however, at my (highly competitive) gym the girls ALL perform straddle cast handstands and i think that is the norm these days so I don't think doing it that way is a problem at all.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

If you can kip cast to horizontal with a straight body and straight arms then you 100 percent can easily cast to handstand with a straddle. You are just not doing the correct technique or progressions.

 

[stxrdusty]

I'm curious to hear the responses.....I think DD could do it ....and I have seen very weak girls with terrible form do it......I think it's a timing thing for my DD, and she does not know how to properly time it or sequence it???
She has a solid kip cast to above Hor, with straight arms. But when it comes time to train KCH, all of the sudden, the whole thing changes.....she gets all archy, and straddles in horizontal and pushes away.....she can't understand the concept of getting her toes on the bar, with your tush pointing up.
She can do a straight CH, but with bad form....she tries to get her toes up and arches all the way.
Time like you said......

What seems to help DD is doing the CH straddled, against a wall...then she has to be reminded to lean WAY over the bar. But the consensus at our gym is straddle....the coaches prefer this look.

Good luck! You WILL get it! You seem very determined!

I just wanted to say that this sounded exactly like me. Fix the cast as soon as possible. After doing it wrong for 3 years it took me over a year to relearn and I still have issues.

For the OP, I have a lot of drills for cast straddle hands and kip cast straddle hands that I shall post underneath this.
Also, if you're doing a straddle to hand correctly you should remain hollow, just like in a straight body to hand. Straddle to hands are definitely easier so I'd start with that just to get a consistent handstand and then work on the straight body cast.

NOW FOR THE CAST DRILLS:

Common problems (some apply the just straddle to hands and some apply to straddle and straight-body:
- Not leaning over the bar (in kip-cast-hands this is caused by the shoulders not being over the bar following the kip)
- Pushing backwards away from the bar with the shoulders (this usually happens if you don't lean)
- Arched body position
- Legs straddling backwards rather than down and then circling around the sides to handstand

Tips (most are for straddle to hands and all can be done with or without ankle weights around the ankles):
- Sets of straight body casts. Keep the stomach pressed hollow and arms straight. Sets of 5-10. All drills on the bar, except for this one, can be done from a kip as well.
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of the hands, jump off over the bar.
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of the hands, fall to back on other side of bar (stack 1-2 8-inch mats behind either a low or high bar for this).
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of hands, small jump/punch off the bar, fall to back on other side of bar. << This can be done with a jump or press to handstand progression next, but I was never able to do it.
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of hands, DO NOT TOUCH BAR WITH FEET THIS TIME, fall to back on other side of bar.
- On floor bar, put feet/shins on physio-ball and roll to from extended position with shoulders extended (completely or not completely, either are beneficial, completely just requires more abdominal strength) to hollow position with shoulders over the bar. Sets of 10+. For all floor+ball drills remember to keep stomach pressed towards back in a hollow at all times.
- On floor bar, put feet/shins on physio-ball and roll to from slightly or completely extended position to pike position with toes on ball and shoulders over the floor bar. Sets of 10+.
- On floor bar, put feet/shins on physio-ball and roll to from slightly extended position to straddle to handstand. Remember to aim toes towards bar and then circle to handstand (like a punch to handstand with hands on the floor).
- Press handstands (on floor, from a sit, on a wall, off a mat, it doesn't matter where as long as body positions are good they are helpful).
- Free handstand holds on the floor or paralettes.
- On tumble track, kick to handstand, fall with straight arms so you bounce off your bottom in a straddle, at the same time reach through your legs so you can bounce to a handstand. These can be done continuously down the whole tumble track.

Once the kip cast hand is achieved doing sets of multiple kip to handstands and periodically doing single "stationary" cast to handstands with a couple pushing over the other side of the bar is beneficial (or at least it is for me).

 

[mayalikesredapples]

I just wanted to say that this sounded exactly like me. Fix the cast as soon as possible. After doing it wrong for 3 years it took me over a year to relearn and I still have issues.

For the OP, I have a lot of drills for cast straddle hands and kip cast straddle hands that I shall post underneath this.
Also, if you're doing a straddle to hand correctly you should remain hollow, just like in a straight body to hand. Straddle to hands are definitely easier so I'd start with that just to get a consistent handstand and then work on the straight body cast.

NOW FOR THE CAST DRILLS:

Common problems (some apply the just straddle to hands and some apply to straddle and straight-body:
- Not leaning over the bar (in kip-cast-hands this is caused by the shoulders not being over the bar following the kip)
- Pushing backwards away from the bar with the shoulders (this usually happens if you don't lean)
- Arched body position
- Legs straddling backwards rather than down and then circling around the sides to handstand

Tips (most are for straddle to hands and all can be done with or without ankle weights around the ankles):
- Sets of straight body casts. Keep the stomach pressed hollow and arms straight. Sets of 5-10. All drills on the bar, except for this one, can be done from a kip as well.
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of the hands, jump off over the bar.
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of the hands, fall to back on other side of bar (stack 1-2 8-inch mats behind either a low or high bar for this).
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of hands, small jump/punch off the bar, fall to back on other side of bar. << This can be done with a jump or press to handstand progression next, but I was never able to do it.
- Cast to straddle with feet on either side of hands, DO NOT TOUCH BAR WITH FEET THIS TIME, fall to back on other side of bar.
- On floor bar, put feet/shins on physio-ball and roll to from extended position with shoulders extended (completely or not completely, either are beneficial, completely just requires more abdominal strength) to hollow position with shoulders over the bar. Sets of 10+. For all floor+ball drills remember to keep stomach pressed towards back in a hollow at all times.
- On floor bar, put feet/shins on physio-ball and roll to from slightly or completely extended position to pike position with toes on ball and shoulders over the floor bar. Sets of 10+.
- On floor bar, put feet/shins on physio-ball and roll to from slightly extended position to straddle to handstand. Remember to aim toes towards bar and then circle to handstand (like a punch to handstand with hands on the floor).
- Press handstands (on floor, from a sit, on a wall, off a mat, it doesn't matter where as long as body positions are good they are helpful).
- Free handstand holds on the floor or paralettes.
- On tumble track, kick to handstand, fall with straight arms so you bounce off your bottom in a straddle, at the same time reach through your legs so you can bounce to a handstand. These can be done continuously down the whole tumble track.

Once the kip cast hand is achieved doing sets of multiple kip to handstands and periodically doing single "stationary" cast to handstands with a couple pushing over the other side of the bar is beneficial (or at least it is for me).

THANKS A MILLION! THIS HELPED SOOOO MUCH

 

[munchkin3]

Great tips!!! I may ask if a private is in order to go over this....she does it much better with the coach right next to her....

 

[iwannacoach]

Improve your kip technique.....

Many gymnasts kip with heir arms working to press to bar down in sort of straight arm pull to support. The problem is that when the gymnast begins the arm pull they are below the bar moving backward, from the glide side to the support side, and the arm pull sends their center of mass (weight) past the vertical plane of the bar. In other words their energy and concentration is spent trying to get their center of mass in line with the bar when it should be used to concentrate on posture and forward lean just prior to the cast.

So try to use a simpler approach to your kip by considering the objectives and what tools you have to make those objectives possible. Here's my short list of objectives:

I want to get my hips to the bar....
The simplest way to get my hips to the bar is to move from a compressed pike below the bar to a straight body position with my upper body below the bar and my lower body above the bar....so instead of an upright support I'm trying to do a hanging upside down support.

I want to move from below the bar to above the bar....
The first step puts me into a shape and position where approximately half my mass is above the bar and the remainder is below the bar. The only problem is I'm upside down, but..... all I have to do is spin/rotate my body forward, kinda like a back hip circle except the spin is the opposite direction. I like to use the energy of the glide and think of it like a sideways yo-yo. The yo-yo goes away with energy and then returns with energy. The idea is to use the return energy to create the spin forward by timing the motion that straightens my body. The odd thing is that the entire motion becomes easier and more powerful by leaning back during the straightening motion.

I want some energy left over to help me lean my shoulders over the bar so I can cast...
The nice thing about the bout the spin model I've described is that the circular spin creates the lean and creates the leg speed that makes casting possible. It works so well that some kids have no choice but to cast to a handstand just to get rid of the extra energy....so be ready and go for it.

Gymnastics..... The sport that gets more difficult by trying in ways that make obvious sense.