WAG Changing Gyms at upper levels

[gasrgoose]

Things are not as simple as checking out a gym and determining based on watching practice, researching online, talking with parents, etc., which is the best gym for our children or for our situation. The gymnast has to physically experience the situation. I could thoroughly research a home and love it but when I go to see it, it just does not feel like home. In addition, if we determine at one time a gym is a perfect fit, things change; coaches leave, they hire new coaches, management changes, fees go up, new gymnasts come in. All these can affect the current situation and make it less suitable.

What coaches see as a lie, sneaking or covering up is a standard and I think acceptable practice. People getting a divorce, moving houses, getting a new job, having another child, looking for another job, putting aside money for a rainy day, etc. all find it necessary to "lie" or withhold the truth. It has been my experience that coaches like to tell parents and gymnasts to jump and expect us to say how high. Coaches talk to us only when they are good and ready. And we parent have to wait for whatever scraps of information they are willing to throw our way. I am sorry but when the power shifts, it does not feel good.

As others have said it's interesting to hear other perspectives. But we will just have to agree to disagree.

We changed gyms last year and it really was as simple as I've described. Our former coach had just booted a girl after he found out she tried another gym when she said she was sick. We decided we needed to leave to reach her goals and told the coach before our daughter visited another gym. We had done plenty of research and it made the decision easy and quick. And the coach who booted the other girl invited us to return if our new gym didn't work out. Yes he was upset and it was difficult (our daughter was one of the favorites) but we just wouldn't put our child in a situation asking her to lie.

It sounds like you've run into some bad gyms/ coaches. I wish you luck in the future and hope you can find a gym where you KNOW the coaches have your kids best interest in mind. They do exist! And it is a great feeling to know we don't need to question anything!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

As others have said it's interesting to hear other perspectives. But we will just have to agree to disagree.

We changed gyms last year and it really was as simple as I've described. Our former coach had just booted a girl after he found out she tried another gym when she said she was sick. We decided we needed to leave to reach her goals and told the coach before our daughter visited another gym. We had done plenty of research and it made the decision easy and quick. And the coach who booted the other girl invited us to return if our new gym didn't work out. Yes he was upset and it was difficult (our daughter was one of the favorites) but we just wouldn't put our child in a situation asking her to lie.

It sounds like you've run into some bad gyms/ coaches. I wish you luck in the future and hope you can find a gym where you KNOW the coaches have your kids best interest in mind. They do exist! And it is a great feeling to know we don't need to question anything!

=
tada.......! Easy as that, but still difficult...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

It's nice that you are a professional, and act like one. Unfortunately, there are way too many coaches that are anything but.

Here's the thing- the type of coach that will ask a girl to leave if he finds out she has been "sneaking" at other gyms is probably the SAME type of coach that will treat the gymnast/family terribly when they announce they are switching gyms. There is nothing to be gained by being upfront with this type of coach. I'm sure there are many wonderful coaches that just have the gymnasts best interests at heart, and hopefully families know which type they've got. When DD left her old gym, a coach she adored literally sneered at her, and it really hurt her. I never would have suspected that this ADULT would treat my child that way.

Like many other gym issues, it goes back to communication. Many coaches are not willing to maintain an open dialogue with parents. A coach that puts in the time necessary to have good communication with parents/gymnasts would not be surprised when a gymnast chooses to leave. Coach will have known they were unhappy for a while. Ideally, the coach will have heard all of the concerns as they arise.

Of course I don't agree with teaching kids to lie, but you have to understand that parents are put in a difficult situation. Non-communicative, vindictive coaches with big egos are a dime-a-dozen, unfortunately. Several posts on this thread are examples of this. Sure, you may not like being lied to, but gymnasts and parents certainly don't appreciate being shunned and treated like the enemy.

==
Bottom line is if you TRY to communicate with your coach things will go over much better, so why not try.... This thread really has gotten ironic by the way....

 

[gracyomalley]

Could you not have found these "clear issues" without taking your child to try out? I'm not condemning you and understand the motivation of trying to do what's best for your kid. I'm just surprised if there were issues that weren't noticed until your child participated in the practice.

I do see your point, however in this instance it had to do with my then 46 inch DD, who had just competed L6(old) and was training for L7 being told once she got to the practice that they wouldn't move the bar settings for her (the other girls in that group were all over a foot taller than her) or bring down the vault for her (from a 4 to the 1 she was just starting to be able to vault on). I realize that some coaches feel that way - but it just didn't fly with us when she clearly was at a huge disadvantage in that setting. (This approach all changed with maturation of the program there, btw - and DD now at 54 inches can use higher settings if she really has to...)

 

[cbifoja]

I find it interesting that some are suggesting that you make the switch before you've seen how the gymnast and coach interact. For me, I would need to see that this aspect is going to work and would play a HUGE role in my decision.

The summer before DD made team at her current gym, I decided to look at other programs to make sure that I was making the best decision for her at that time (she had just turned 7). I liked our gym but it had currently had a new owner and I was pretty ignorant about "team" and just needed the reassurance that this was the best choice for us rather than the gym that was closest to us.

It looked great on paper. Lots of banners, lots of state champions, tons of space, lots of sets of equipment. A large facility with tons more equipment than I had ever seen in one place. The coaches looked about as nice as a coach can look from 200 feet away, no devil horns or pitchforks to be found!

So DD did a practice with the L3 (old) group but it was quickly obvious that it wasn't a good fit. The coaching style wasn't what she responds to and I didn't like the leg hitting that looked closer to slaps than taps. I don't discipline physically so DD did a startle-jump when the coach popped her after her leg cut. We left at break and when I went to thank the coach for her time, she had a meltdown and basically called my parenting into question because I was considering my DD's opinion.

Can you image how unhappy we would have been had I just switched her to this gym without seeing how they interacted with DD?

 

[gymgal]

I just don't get it. your gym is either a good fit for your child or it is not. If you have concerns, you talk with the coaches. If you can't talk with them, then you are at the wrong gym (regardless of their reputation, status, etc) and you should leave. Many parents are pretty happy with their gym but wonder "is there a better one out there?" so they begin looking around. There is ALWAYS a "better" gym somewhere. That doesn't mean you should leave your current gym. If your dd is happy and progressing, why go looking? You stay. If she is not happy, you move.

Parents feel like they have to have new gym arrangements before they leave their current gym. This is where the sneaking comes into play and causes the problem. If you know you *need* to move, then tell the coaches and deal with the ramifications. Then go tryout at the new gyms and decide on one. Is it possible that your gymnast might might get kicked out right away from the old gym? yes. or sit out a year of competition because there isn't room on the new team? yes. Is it possible there are not any other gyms that fit your child? yes. But none of these should be excuses for "sneaking around". Own up to your decision from the start to move gyms because if your child (or you) is miserable, you need to move.

 

[happychaos]

I just don't get it. your gym is either a good fit for your child or it is not. If you have concerns, you talk with the coaches. If you can't talk with them, then you are at the wrong gym (regardless of their reputation, status, etc) and you should leave. Many parents are pretty happy with their gym but wonder "is there a better one out there?" so they begin looking around. There is ALWAYS a "better" gym somewhere. That doesn't mean you should leave your current gym. If your dd is happy and progressing, why go looking? You stay. If she is not happy, you move.

Parents feel like they have to have new gym arrangements before they leave their current gym. This is where the sneaking comes into play and causes the problem. If you know you *need* to move, then tell the coaches and deal with the ramifications. Then go tryout at the new gyms and decide on one. Is it possible that your gymnast might might get kicked out right away from the old gym? yes. or sit out a year of competition because there isn't room on the new team? yes. Is it possible there are not any other gyms that fit your child? yes. But none of these should be excuses for "sneaking around". Own up to your decision from the start to move gyms because if your child (or you) is miserable, you need to move.

Let's be real here. Parents are not the only ones who aren't entirely upfront and forthcoming. There are plenty of times coaches hold back information until it is convenient for them to share it. And I understand why they do it.

For example, at our gym if a gymnast or parent asks a coach what level a gymnast will be competing before they are ready to announce it, they will answer "I don't know". Of course they know, and everybody knows that they know. Yet, they still say they "don't know". Of course I understand why they say that (it's easier than admitting they know and refusing to tell) but it's still lying. But they are not lying to deceive, they are lying because it is in their best interest to announce levels all at one time. Should we immediately depart the gym because trust has been broken? Of course not.

I really like DD's current coaches. I think they are great. Even these good coaches are not totally upfront with our gym parents all the time. They sometimes hedge on questions, hold back information, tell parents what they want to hear to avoid a conflict, give two parents different answers to the same question, or avoid parents all together. That said, I still like and appreciate these coaches. I do NOT feel the need to sever DD's relationship with these coaches just because they haven't told me the whole truth upfront 100% of the time. I recognize the reasons they do and say the things they do, and I give them a little leeway and trust that they are running the program the best way they know how.

I would hope that coaches could also recognize that parents are just trying to what is best for their child. Sometimes this includes investigating other gyms without being totally certain they want to leave. I just don't see anything wrong with this.

There is a lot of space between wondering if there might be a better fit for your child, and 100% knowing you *need* to move because the child is miserable. No gym is perfect, and I've learned that most people have at least a few complaints with their gym. As a parent, I feel it is my obligation, within reason, to see that my DD is in the best possible circumstances. I think many parents find themselves in the position of having a few valid concerns about their gym, but their child is not miserable and they do not *need* to leave.

 

[happychaos]

Is it possible that your gymnast might might get kicked out right away from the old gym? yes. or sit out a year of competition because there isn't room on the new team? yes. Is it possible there are not any other gyms that fit your child? yes. But none of these should be excuses for "sneaking around". Own up to your decision from the start to move gyms because if your child (or you) is miserable, you need to move.

There is some interesting logic going on here. Does a parent "owe" the coach information, when that parent suspects the coach will immediately turn around and use that information against the child? Why is the coach the only one who is "owed" anything? Sure, coaches invest time and energy into the gymnasts, but the gymnast and parents have also invested their blood, sweat, tears, money, time, gas, volunteer hours, etc.

Aren't the gymnasts owed more than a "get out now"? Aren't they owed more than a cold shoulder? When a gymnast has invested thousands of hours, tens of thousands of dollars and years of loyalty, aren't THEY owed something? Don't they deserve the chance to evaluate, reflect, and discuss without being kicked out, and in some cases shunned, or escorted out of the gym like a criminal? Isn't the gymnast owed more than dirty looks and sneering comments? Some coaches have no problem treating a gymnast this way, yet they feel so wronged if a gymnast doesn't tell them they are evaluating other gyms.

Parents should not "own up" and allow the coach a chance to treat the child however he sees fit, even if it is unfair and downright cruel. No way. Have you read some of the stories on this thread? Parental loyalty should go to the child first, not a coach.

 

[gasrgoose]

I find it interesting that some are suggesting that you make the switch before you've seen how the gymnast and coach interact. For me, I would need to see that this aspect is going to work and would play a HUGE role in my decision.

The summer before DD made team at her current gym, I decided to look at other programs to make sure that I was making the best decision for her at that time (she had just turned 7). I liked our gym but it had currently had a new owner and I was pretty ignorant about "team" and just needed the reassurance that this was the best choice for us rather than the gym that was closest to us.

It looked great on paper. Lots of banners, lots of state champions, tons of space, lots of sets of equipment. A large facility with tons more equipment than I had ever seen in one place. The coaches looked about as nice as a coach can look from 200 feet away, no devil horns or pitchforks to be found!

So DD did a practice with the L3 (old) group but it was quickly obvious that it wasn't a good fit. The coaching style wasn't what she responds to and I didn't like the leg hitting that looked closer to slaps than taps. I don't discipline physically so DD did a startle-jump when the coach popped her after her leg cut. We left at break and when I went to thank the coach for her time, she had a meltdown and basically called my parenting into question because I was considering my DD's opinion.

Can you image how unhappy we would have been had I just switched her to this gym without seeing how they interacted with DD?

Again this example is something that you would have noticed if you had watched a practice without your child present. And actually a great example of why you shouldn't take your child somewhere you haven't fully researched. Also this thread is referring to switching gyms at higher levels where the pond is much smaller and the knowledge should be greater.

 

[gasrgoose]

There is some interesting logic going on here. Does a parent "owe" the coach information, when that parent suspects the coach will immediately turn around and use that information against the child? Why is the coach the only one who is "owed" anything? Sure, coaches invest time and energy into the gymnasts, but the gymnast and parents have also invested their blood, sweat, tears, money, time, gas, volunteer hours, etc.

Aren't the gymnasts owed more than a "get out now"? Aren't they owed more than a cold shoulder? When a gymnast has invested thousands of hours, tens of thousands of dollars and years of loyalty, aren't THEY owed something? Don't they deserve the chance to evaluate, reflect, and discuss without being kicked out, and in some cases shunned, or escorted out of the gym like a criminal? Isn't the gymnast owed more than dirty looks and sneering comments? Some coaches have no problem treating a gymnast this way, yet they feel so wronged if a gymnast doesn't tell them they are evaluating other gyms.

Parents should not "own up" and allow the coach a chance to treat the child however he sees fit, even if it is unfair and downright cruel. No way. Have you read some of the stories on this thread? Parental loyalty should go to the child first, not a coach.

Big picture, here is how I see it. Coaches are in this sport for life and I need to try to navigate the way the sport currently operates to give my child the best opportunity for success. You might or might not agree with what coaches are saying. But the majority are saying the same thing, "no tryouts at other gyms". Keep in mind this thread refers to upper level gymnasts, though I think it should be at any level. You can navigate your own way and find a different path and maybe even make a stand, but is that what is best for your child's gymnastics? Only you can answer that question.

My child has lofty goals in this incredibly difficult sport and I am going to give her every opportunity to reach them. And one of those ways is leaving a very "small wake" behind us. I want other gyms to wish they had my child as a student, not only because of her talent, but because we as a family are pleasant and easy and a joy to have as customers. We have this same attitude for our other 2 kids in their respective sports. This approach has worked well with our oldest child who is at the top of her sport nationally and this other sport is much more difficult to navigate then gymnastics!

As for how a gym treats my child, I knew before my kid darkened the door how she would be treated. Because I had researched in depth about the 2 possible gyms and the 3 others that weren't a good fit.

 

[cbifoja]

Again this example is something that you would have noticed if you had watched a practice without your child present. And actually a great example of why you shouldn't take your child somewhere you haven't fully researched. Also this thread is referring to switching gyms at higher levels where the pond is much smaller and the knowledge should be greater.

I don't think I would have witnessed the coach having a melt down and being CGC from their viewing area. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[BachFlyer]

We switched gyms before my 11yo dds L9 season. There were two other options in the general area, and having been involved in the sport to this level, we obviously knew quite a bit about each, especially having former teammates that had moved on to both places. When we made the decision to tryout, we were not 100% sure if she was leaving. But, if we decided to go, both dd and I were nearly certain she would land at Gym A. We really only tried Gym B to be thorough. She tried both places twice, and lo and behold, it turns out that Gym B ended up as the much better fit. Most of the reasons for the decision came from my dd after the practice: the equipment felt better at Gym B (bars and floor specifically), it was less crowded, she liked the team interaction better, she liked the conditioning and organization of practices better, she felt a more positive energy from the coaches that she instantly connected with. I couldn't possibly garner these subtleties from my own research. And I would never, ever in a million years exclude her from the process - how could I? She's the one doing the skills and putting in the time, and she's the one that needs to feel comfortable. I mean, maybe when she was a L5 it could be done based on "research", but really, what upper level optional gymnast wouldn't want have a touch-and-feel trial run before committing? No offense, but I find this just laughable. I wouldn't even switch from Planet Fitness to Fitness 19 without trying it, so how does this make one iota of sense for an upper level gymnast who lives and breathes her sport?

When my younger non-gymnast switched riding instructors, same thing. We tried 3 places, she did 3 practice lessons, and we ended up in the place that felt most like home - we didn't know it was home until we felt it, though. Only difference here is that there wasn't any strange, possessive, crazy-gym-coach drama which was so (extremely) refreshing and easy. Yes this sport is unique, but at the end of the day I am still your paying customer. It is not my job alone to be a joyful, pleasant, loyal customer without exception. It is certainly not a coach's job to be always gracious, perfect, all-knowing, all-understanding either. But my opinion that there is a middle ground that (most) coaches fail to try to find. Many need to stop trying to hold ALL of the cards ALL of the time. Like 4theloveofsports said, NO gym is not perfect and no gym will fit every kid, but the power clearly lies with the coach... perhaps if they were willing to trust their "parent partners" more and offer more communication and respect, there would be less sneaking and more overall gymnast/family contentment.

 

[gasrgoose]

We switched gyms before my 11yo dds L9 season. There were two other options in the general area, and having been involved in the sport to this level, we obviously knew quite a bit about each, especially having former teammates that had moved on to both places. When we made the decision to tryout, we were not 100% sure if she was leaving. But, if we decided to go, both dd and I were nearly certain she would land at Gym A. We really only tried Gym B to be thorough. She tried both places twice, and lo and behold, it turns out that Gym B ended up as the much better fit. Most of the reasons for the decision came from my dd after the practice: the equipment felt better at Gym B (bars and floor specifically), it was less crowded, she liked the team interaction better, she liked the conditioning and organization of practices better, she felt a more positive energy from the coaches that she instantly connected with. I couldn't possibly garner these subtleties from my own research. And I would never, ever in a million years exclude her from the process - how could I? She's the one doing the skills and putting in the time, and she's the one that needs to feel comfortable. I mean, maybe when she was a L5 it could be done based on "research", but really, what upper level optional gymnast wouldn't want have a touch-and-feel trial run before committing? No offense, but I find this just laughable. I wouldn't even switch from Planet Fitness to Fitness 19 without trying it, so how does this make one iota of sense for an upper level gymnast who lives and breathes her sport?

We partially agree, I just don't think you should try out at another gym before you've decided that you are leaving. Our daughter was involved in the decision between the 2 gyms after we decided we were leaving and she's pretty young. I'm not advocating the kid not being involved in the decision and am not saying don't tryout before you sign on the line. I'm advocating doing as much research as possible and deciding whether or not you think it's time to leave. (As you stated at the higher levels you already know quite a bit about the other gyms.) And then bringing the kid into the loop after you decide a move is necessary. Tryout at your top 2 choices after you've left the old gym not while you are trying to decide. Once you begin to question the current gym in front of the gymnast it is difficult to remove that doubt, especially with younger (9,10,11) kids who are levels 8,9,10 and I want my daughter to 100% trust and believe in what her coaches are saying.

 

[BachFlyer]

you have a point, but in our case, we wouldnt have considered a move if my dd wasnt already lacking trust in the process and not satisfied. The move wasnt initiated by me alone.
But the point is, it could have turned out that the old gym was in fact the best option after we tried the other two. How would we know without trying?
I am a little different because maybe because i try to teach my kids to question everything (even me) because thats how they will make decisions later in life.

 

[cbifoja]

I think something else important to remember is that not everyone has access to several good gyms. Sometimes, you are in an area of limited opportunities. So you have to have a gym for your kid and can't be cavalier about losing a position on a team. It would be better to be in a gym that isn't ideal than not be in a gym at all. And sometimes people just like to know all of their options before choosing the best.

Is gymnastics the only business like this? I mean Kroger doesn't ban me if I pick up groceries from the Piggly Wiggly. One contractor doesn't refuse my business because I got multiple bids. LOL

 

[still hanging]

WOW!!!! This thread has really evolved since I started it. Awesome reading!!

Here is our update: We made the change and DD is very happy. The decision making process was the hardest thing my DD and I have ever done together. Yes, I allowed her to be part of the process. This is her gymnastics. She is the one that has to work with coaches and teammates for countless hours, not me. It did not go as simply as I had hoped, however the end result is she is happy, very happy. The coaching style was just what we were both looking for in a new gym. We weren't out looking for better technical coaching and we know the all gyms have issues. We wanted a gym that was more in line with how we wanted our child to be treated. I have no problem with tough coaching. This is a mental, physical and dangerous sport. I do have a problem with insulting, degrading, playing mind games and/or ignoring children to get what they want accomplished!

Leaving her teammates (several her best friends), the comfort of the gym she has known for so long, coaches and families we both care about was extremely difficult. I am not going to kid you...this was TOUGH! You have to be certain. You have to do your research. You have to reach to other parents you have met along this gymnastics journey. Not all gyms are suited for all people. So many things to consider when making a gym change at any level, however at the 9/10 level brings even more things to consider. We did not want to say or do anything to leave a large wake in her exit. We appreciate her old coaches and the gym for helping her grow into the gymnast she is today.

Happycha0s, "Why is the coach the only one who is "owed" anything? Sure, coaches invest time and energy into the gymnasts, but the gymnast and parents have also invested their blood, sweat, tears, money, time, gas, volunteer hours, etc." Excellent point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Midwestmommy]

Oh how easy my life would be if none of my clients ever put out a Request for Proposal to shop around! Ahhhhhh, I could take a real vacation a little more often! And I would meet all our profit targets! getting dreamy on a Friday afternoon....

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Groceries , contracts and clients? Lol. Ummm your kids mean a great deal more to us than those things. We actually get attached to them and care for them, we keep them Safe, we catch them when they fall, dust them off and teach them how to get back up. We spend more time with them than most parents, so please! With a cherry on top! Don't let or tell them to lie to us in the end...

 

[happychaos]

Groceries , contracts and clients? Lol. Ummm your kids mean a great deal more to us than those things. We actually get attached to them and care for them, we keep them Safe, we catch them when they fall, dust them off and teach them how to get back up. We spend more time with them than most parents, so please! With a cherry on top! Don't let or tell them to lie to us in the end...

I'm very glad you care about your kids so much. The flip side is, most parents don't have to worry about their DD being humiliated at the grocery store. So while you probably do care about your gymnasts, you also have a tremendous amount of power over them, and this thread is proof that parents need to make sure that the power you have is not misused.

I can't really think of any other circumstance where a child would be sneered at and humiliated by a professional adult. And if a child were treated so poorly, I certainly can't imagine other adults rushing to defend the behavior. Gymnastics is a crazy place.

Whoever pointed out that coaches "kicking out" gymnasts (and the other stuff) is a power play is exactly right. It's nothing but an (attempt) to show power and control. It is a desire to make an example of the gymnast and family so others don't try it. It is a desire to prevent the gymnast from leaving on her terms, and force her to leave on the coaches terms.

And if coaches think that treating departing gymnasts like crud makes the remaining gymnasts trust and respect the coach more, they are wrong.

 

[Quadqueen]

^^YES!!!!